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Old 06-09-2017, 04:42 AM   #176
Seadood228
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

Holy **** your swing is really coming around.

Agree on the irons.. Maybe it's just me but I've always liked the thinner topline of "gamer" clubs and could never get used to chunky irons with offsets.

I owned a game improvement set a couple years ago and just never felt right with it...
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Old 06-09-2017, 04:54 AM   #177
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

From this:



to this:



In a couple weeks is pretty amazing. Your backswing looks better, and your transition is MILES better. Whatever you're doing keep at it imo... and yeah if you aren't thinking about what your hips are doing in the latter swings then you've pretty much got it down.

[edit] Yeah if it feels weird to do the douchey-guy float load then it's more than likely because you are used to aiding in the unhinge in some way. I think a lot of golfers are used to the pressure on the club in the downswing being on the index finger, and getting "laggy" with the means that pressure is coming from the pinkie/ring fingers, which probably feels unstable for those not used to it.

Last edited by Seadood228; 06-09-2017 at 05:03 AM.
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Old 06-10-2017, 01:18 AM   #178
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game



I'm working on it. I have a few ideas for drills to do (from youtube), tbh probably going to wait until my new clubs come in hopefully a few days to get back to that. I'll probably hit some driver and do some short game stuff before then.

6/9: I played a round today, shot 105 on the same course I've been playing.
  • 5 putted
  • Had a few 4 putts
  • Made a ~25 footer though!
  • I am so good at approach shots, from 7i to 56° you'd swear I was a single digit handicap...
  • Had a few nice chips
  • My mis hits were all with my hybrid, I think. Had like 3 in a row with it or something crazy, just total snaffus ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Overall not too unhappy despite the score. I swear I'm going to start putting any day now (I have already been doing a little bit of putting and chipping and there's some improvement, but man my distance control from every single distance... woof), I can see the dozen strokes melting off already
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Old 06-10-2017, 01:24 AM   #179
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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[edit] Yeah if it feels weird to do the douchey-guy float load then it's more than likely because you are used to aiding in the unhinge in some way. I think a lot of golfers are used to the pressure on the club in the downswing being on the index finger, and getting "laggy" with the means that pressure is coming from the pinkie/ring fingers, which probably feels unstable for those not used to it.
What feels weird to me is the contortion of the body in the way you tuck your right elbow way in (he has his like at his belly button), I feel like I'm really straining my front side. Though yea the transition I've been kinda doing is weird too-- sometimes when I'm out there I'm just thinking about ripping it around with my torso and letting my arms/hands fall behind and it feels really strange. Like an actual whip in many ways. Idk if that's the right feel or not, probably something between that and what I previously was doing. Feels like there's really very little control, but maybe that's right?

Btw I got some advice from a friend who is pretty good and he said I'm swaying a bit right my right leg in the backswing, so I'll probably try to low key keep that in mind as well
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Old 06-10-2017, 06:18 AM   #180
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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What feels weird to me is the contortion of the body in the way you tuck your right elbow way in (he has his like at his belly button), I feel like I'm really straining my front side. Though yea the transition I've been kinda doing is weird too-- sometimes when I'm out there I'm just thinking about ripping it around with my torso and letting my arms/hands fall behind and it feels really strange. Like an actual whip in many ways. Idk if that's the right feel or not, probably something between that and what I previously was doing. Feels like there's really very little control, but maybe that's right?

Btw I got some advice from a friend who is pretty good and he said I'm swaying a bit right my right leg in the backswing, so I'll probably try to low key keep that in mind as well
From what I can tell is it's a matter of preference? I have for a long time tried to get the angles needed by sheer rotation and passive hands along for the ride, and I had a little bit of success, but not as much success as I have had recently trying to have a little more of that "whip" motion with my arms. Just like you've mentioned sometimes u can let your arms move a little too fast doing this and it speeds up the transition too much and that can obv lead to problems. But when I remember to start my downswing with the lower body (sqautting for me) I seem to be getting a lot more CHS and most of the time better launch angles with my irons. I've had same thought about if this type of swing is as controllable as it needs to be going forward, but after seeing a swing like Jon Rahms I feel a little better about sticking with this "style" for the time being.

Rahms swing, make sure u watch the face on view

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idChSwhlhik

Last edited by IMDABES; 06-10-2017 at 06:44 AM.
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Old 06-10-2017, 08:16 PM   #181
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

Aaron, based on your swing videos and feedback from rounds played, perhaps your next practice step shouldn't be pounding more balls on the range but something more like this: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/93...outine-992787/
it seems like you're bleeding the most strokes around the green, not getting from tee to green.

and seeing that you have a flightscope dispersion report (granted from a limited sample size), you might want to read into the thoughts of our very own ship---this and his DECADE golf ideas.
https://practical-golf.com/decade-scott-fawcett/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeV...fIqcLahWaJEATQ

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Old 06-10-2017, 08:57 PM   #182
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

Yeah I'd say the majority of his strokes are lost around the green and probably between the ears at this point.

But I'll counter that if he's playing the long game so to speak, whether or not he's beating balls before getting better near the greens or the other way probably makes no difference, and I really think all of us should be playing for results 6 months out rather than a few weeks.

I actually think it's easier better to get a nice full swing groove prior to the short game, mainly because there are elements a full swing that work in the short game, and it's easy to develop bad FS habits when you have bad habits with your short shots.
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Old 06-10-2017, 09:12 PM   #183
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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Originally Posted by IMDABES View Post
From what I can tell is it's a matter of preference? I have for a long time tried to get the angles needed by sheer rotation and passive hands along for the ride, and I had a little bit of success, but not as much success as I have had recently trying to have a little more of that "whip" motion with my arms. Just like you've mentioned sometimes u can let your arms move a little too fast doing this and it speeds up the transition too much and that can obv lead to problems. But when I remember to start my downswing with the lower body (sqautting for me) I seem to be getting a lot more CHS and most of the time better launch angles with my irons. I've had same thought about if this type of swing is as controllable as it needs to be going forward, but after seeing a swing like Jon Rahms I feel a little better about sticking with this "style" for the time being.

Rahms swing, make sure u watch the face on view

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idChSwhlhik
The interesting thing is that dual external rotation, or squatting, actually aids in bringing the elbow to a position of leverage, and on the flip side having a good elbow move aids in getting the legs into the right position. If you're working on one, you're kind of working on the other.

AFA it feeling unnatural, I tend to agree. I wish I could say that it should be something golfers do consciously but tbh I don't really know. What I do know, however, is that every single power hitter I have ever seen has a great elbow position in their downswing.. Some guys get their hands way behind them and bring it in, while some guys (and instructors) teach that you should keep the elbow and club in front of your for the duration of the backswing.

Aejones, I can see what your friend is saying about your lower body swaying left, but I'm not sure it's something that's too egregious at this point... imho. I truly feel your most important step from here is to get your elbow right.
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Old 06-11-2017, 12:22 AM   #184
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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Originally Posted by REDeYeS88 View Post
Aaron, based on your swing videos and feedback from rounds played, perhaps your next practice step shouldn't be pounding more balls on the range but something more like this: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/93...outine-992787/
it seems like you're bleeding the most strokes around the green, not getting from tee to green.

and seeing that you have a flightscope dispersion report (granted from a limited sample size), you might want to read into the thoughts of our very own ship---this and his DECADE golf ideas.
https://practical-golf.com/decade-scott-fawcett/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeV...fIqcLahWaJEATQ
I know, I really don't care about score, it doesn't frustrate me when I get a bad score, I just want to learn about the mechanics of the golf swing and be able to hit some GIR. One day I'll start trying to score, and on that day I'll put more time into putting (I already started a little bit, but I want to get a heavier putter tbh, I find that I'm not able to get it on a consistent path) I promise.

Idk why it keeps being brought up that I'm "beating balls at the range," like I'm not reading academic papers on the slot swing and watching youtube videos about how to stop casting. I'm doing drills around the house and then trying to put them into action. I don't understand why it's so tough to understand that I don't care about score at this point, I just want to figure out what it feels like to hit a golf ball correctly. How can people say "you have to get your hands in front of the ball" and then also not want me to spend every waking moment on it? I have to do it eventually, might as well be right now. When I feel like I can really hit an iron (I actually feel like I can sometimes), I'll move on to driver, and then putter, etc. I've already been doing a bit of chipping. Once I start practicing putting the next 10 strokes will be easy. It's the 10 strokes after that that I'm worried about.
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Old 06-11-2017, 01:03 AM   #185
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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The interesting thing is that dual external rotation, or squatting, actually aids in bringing the elbow to a position of leverage, and on the flip side having a good elbow move aids in getting the legs into the right position. If you're working on one, you're kind of working on the other.

AFA it feeling unnatural, I tend to agree. I wish I could say that it should be something golfers do consciously but tbh I don't really know. What I do know, however, is that every single power hitter I have ever seen has a great elbow position in their downswing.. Some guys get their hands way behind them and bring it in, while some guys (and instructors) teach that you should keep the elbow and club in front of your for the duration of the backswing.

Aejones, I can see what your friend is saying about your lower body swaying left, but I'm not sure it's something that's too egregious at this point... imho. I truly feel your most important step from here is to get your elbow right.
I am doing a bunch of casting drills and when these new clubs come in I'll go back to the range and try em out for a bit, see if I have to get them lengthened or something. I have been thinking about pulling my elbow almost in to my belly button-- but it never really works like that.
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Old 06-11-2017, 01:05 AM   #186
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

Btw just to expand on the short game stuff-- I fully understand that from a practice point of view I should probably be spending more time on <20 yards than >20 yards from the pin, and it's likely that the totality of my practice in the next calendar year will reflect that, but I just wanna see what it feels like to hit a good shot first. I want my misses to be better (and with less frequency), my hits to be more accurate, my length to be maximized, etc.
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Old 06-11-2017, 01:07 AM   #187
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

I completely agree, I had the exact same thought a couple years ago when I really started to get serious about improving. Being a "good" ball striker seems a lot harder than having a "good" short game. It makes sense to "solve" the harder part first imo, or at least put a lot more work into it than short game. Otherwise you're at risk of capping out at being a old man golfer with a good short game trying to par every hole, there are a lot of those.

Maybe you'll find this useful, I have this printed out and hanging near my hitting setup, I'm not going to chill on the tweaking and practice until I hit these carry numbers consistently.

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Old 06-11-2017, 01:10 AM   #188
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

Also what kind of putter should I get? I don't really like what I have, I vaguely think I want something very heavy (shaft included) with a thick grip and a "flat" simple face, no weird lines or w/e. I don't like what I have and I'd imagine it can be pretty cheap or used, just want to get used to something that I vaguely like when I start practicing more putting. Suggestions?
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Old 06-11-2017, 01:14 AM   #189
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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I completely agree, I had the exact same thought a couple years ago when I really started to get serious about improving. Being a "good" ball striker seems a lot harder than having a "good" short game. It makes sense to "solve" the harder part first imo, or at least put a lot more work into it than short game. Otherwise you're at risk of capping out at being a old man golfer with a good short game trying to par every hole, there are a lot of those.

Maybe you'll find this useful, I have this printed out and hanging near my hitting setup, I'm not going to chill on the tweaking and practice until I hit these carry numbers consistently.

That's an interesting chart, not too familiar with those outputs just yet aside from the one fitting. When you go about trying to achieve the carry numbers, are you basically just trying to gain length? Are you looking at something like spin rate or launch angle and tweaking your own swing based on the areas you're deficient? It seems harder to do a more 'top down' approach like that

Maybe I'm being silly but those distances don't seem THAT unreasonable, especially if I'm going to allegedly gain some distance when I get some lag
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Old 06-11-2017, 01:22 AM   #190
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

Launch angle mainly, although I'm not certain how accurate my skytrak is for it. Basically is a battle for me currently of trying to get near say 22 degree LA for a PW while trying to generate enough CHS for the carry numbers listed above. I try and keep track of the trajectory stuff to make sure I'm not getting the numbers I'm after by blading it a bit. After a lot of smacked balls and looking at the numbers and ball flight my Skytrak offers I think I can generally feel it out to know if I got the desired #s the right way or not, but it's still a struggle, and I'm new to the data stuff. With the PW example tho, I'm pretty baffled how these guys get 24 or less degrees, I got a ways to go.
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Old 06-11-2017, 04:41 AM   #191
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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I am doing a bunch of casting drills and when these new clubs come in I'll go back to the range and try em out for a bit, see if I have to get them lengthened or something. I have been thinking about pulling my elbow almost in to my belly button-- but it never really works like that.


Yeah I went through the same thing. I would basically spend a little time doing drills like the one in douche's video, but after maybe ten balls that felt completely unnatural I'd quit. This went on for probably a year before I buckled down and committed to getting my elbow in front of me on the downswing. It took several months to get things where I liked them, but the small improvements were very encouraging... especially with iron distances.

Also wrt putters, I would say go to your nearest superstore and hit every putter imaginable with balls that you typically play. Maybe a heavy putter feels best, maybe it's something else. For me it's always been about what looks best to my eye and feels great coming off the club.
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Old 06-11-2017, 09:12 AM   #192
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

I find it's easier to try and get the feel by comparing it to other sports I played. I grew up playing baseball and the baseball swing is very similar in terms of keeping the elbow close and using the torso rotation to generate power. In fact if you theoretically had a waist-high tee and put the golf ball on it, the swing would feel quite similar to a baseball swing.

Likewise another feeling that helps for me is hitting a 2-handed forehand in tennis. Again, the elbows are naturally close to the body and the core rotates, don't even really have to think about it since I played a ton of tennis growing up also.

Not saying the golf swing is identical but can help when searching for the proper feel.
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Old 06-11-2017, 03:01 PM   #193
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

agree with posters to a certain degree on score......... once you get to a certain level, most of the stroke improvement in golf comes from short game. big caveat that you have to hit it straight from the tee but i'd think that's varies a bit unpredictable which short game shouldn't - except maybe actually holing 10 foot putts and similar.

why is your putting so bad? do you not have a friend who plays golf well who can help you with that? in general, i'd say basic competency in putting is simple.

can you post a video of your putting?
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Old 06-11-2017, 03:05 PM   #194
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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Maybe I'm being silly but those distances don't seem THAT unreasonable, especially if I'm going to allegedly gain some distance when I get some lag
you live at high altitude and i'm thinking dry.. when i used to live on canadian prairies i could sometimes make 570 yard holes in 2 shots. in winter in vancouver, 380 yards seems like a huge challenge........ my 2 examples are complete extremes and the prairie example was sometimes dogleg you could cut pretty severely. big tailwind too.. but you get the idea.
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Old 06-11-2017, 04:07 PM   #195
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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you live at high altitude and i'm thinking dry.. when i used to live on canadian prairies i could sometimes make 570 yard holes in 2 shots. in winter in vancouver, 380 yards seems like a huge challenge........ my 2 examples are complete extremes and the prairie example was sometimes dogleg you could cut pretty severely. big tailwind too.. but you get the idea.
Ya I'd say I presently spend most of my time in favorable conditions for distance but have also spent plenty of time in neutral conditions in Indiana/Toronto.
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Old 06-11-2017, 04:09 PM   #196
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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agree with posters to a certain degree on score......... once you get to a certain level, most of the stroke improvement in golf comes from short game. big caveat that you have to hit it straight from the tee but i'd think that's varies a bit unpredictable which short game shouldn't - except maybe actually holing 10 foot putts and similar.

why is your putting so bad? do you not have a friend who plays golf well who can help you with that? in general, i'd say basic competency in putting is simple.

can you post a video of your putting?
I haven't put much effort into my putting and am still trying out some new things (moving the ball forward in my stance to achieve the right launch angle), but I'd say at the moment the worst part of it is consistency with putter speed and path. Things I know I can fix and know how to fix them (reps), but at the moment I'm out there on the course kinda trying different things which is leading to particularly bad scoring (and also probably just making bad reads from lack of experience). I'd be shocked if I wasn't a "good" putter like a year from now, I have good fine motor skills and am good at repping things out.
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Old 06-11-2017, 05:42 PM   #197
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

Pretty sure I solved it. Will go take some video
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Old 06-11-2017, 06:50 PM   #198
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

if you're interested in a heavier putter, you might test drive something in the odyssey tank cruiser line with super stroke grips.
http://www.callawaygolfpreowned.com/...uiser-putters/
http://www.odysseygolf.com/families/tank/
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Old 06-11-2017, 07:47 PM   #199
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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if you're interested in a heavier putter, you might test drive something in the odyssey tank cruiser line with super stroke grips.
http://www.callawaygolfpreowned.com/...uiser-putters/
http://www.odysseygolf.com/families/tank/
Thanks, I'll definitely find somewhere near me to check these out
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Old 06-11-2017, 08:01 PM   #200
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

6/11: 2 buckets with SW, a few with driver

I hit some chips, decided to track results

56 degree, 50 feet, slightly uphill: 8/40
60 degree, 40 feet, slightly downhill: 1/40 (I think this result was a pretty huge outlier, it wasn't that far downhill)
60 degree, 40 feet, ball slightly below my feet, slightly uphill: 9/40, 1 in
60 degree, 40 feet, ball slightly above my feet, slightly uphill: 6/40, 1 in
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