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Old 06-06-2017, 11:48 PM   #151
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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Originally Posted by IMDABES View Post
big disaster, you can't get useful LAG without a good pivot, which has been stated a few times ITT as a problem of his, as it is mine. Not easy to fix either in my experience, lot of other things in a swing can be solved or improved somewhat quickly it seems, getting those damned hips to fire has a lot of factors and for me has been a multiple year project I'm just finally making progress on.

Also get a launch monitor of some sort, I know you got $$, the feedback you get from it is better than smashing balls at the range imo. I spent 2 summers and probably 200 + buckets guessing on the range, maybe it's just been the timing of it, but a few months with a launch monitor has been more beneficial by lots.
Ya my plan is to put some kind of a trackman setup inside at some point, probably when it gets a little bit colder out. I'm gonna be doing a little bit of traveling and won't have time to work on the setup just yet

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Yeah strong grip will get you absolutely nowhere if your hip pivot isn't working.

Tbh I don't think it's good strat for someone like Ae to be thinking about "lag" at all. When your fundamentals improve Lag will come with it. I know I personally wasted a lot of time trying to get more when I should of been spending that effort on the hip pivot and other things.

a few things that have worked for me recently

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmb1KetN3io&t=442s
- You've eliminated hip sway which is a good start, now I'd focus almost exclusively on starting the downswing with your lower body, and starting it a smidge BEFORE reaching the top of your backswing.
- A thing recently that has helped my hip pivot is squatting a bit on the downswing, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Psy-bWcdUq0
I found out pretty quickly that "trying to hold lag" is not a thing you can do, so I'm basically working on getting the hips around quicker and also kinda thinking about having the wrists be "loose" and "neutral" and letting them just come around and when the hips/torso/arms eventually get there they'll be there too

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I saw Sergio explain it as from the top of the backswing he feels like he is pulling the chain of a ceiling fan straight down with both hands. Basically you're keeping the handle of the club pointed down towards the ground and towards the ball as long as possible.

Your last videos of "half swings" look more like a full swing to me. You really need to try to pull the handle down and reconnect your right elbow to your side ASAP in the downswing. You shouldn't start to straighten the right arm until your elbow is touching your side. As someone else said, your swing looks great except for that part. From the top imagine a laser beam coming out of the grip end of your shaft. You want to point that laser at the ground during your downswing and make the laser follow the path you want your club head to travel once it gets there. You really just need to get your right elbow in tight to your side. This will help keep the lag naturally.
I agree and this is one of the three-ish things I'm working on at the moment. Sometimes I start it too soon though, and it's always a disaster then-- the transition is too fast, I'm chopping at it, etc.

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Interesting about the grip, squatting, and pointing the shaft at the ground. I think for me it's why I have generally never had to worry about it too much because I've always had a strong grip and fast hips. Anyway this guy, who I really think has swings like Hogan should have, talks about the same things in his video. He seems like a bit of a nerd douche, but from what I've read he's one of the few guys that actually learned later in life and did it pretty much on his own.

He talks about how he got lag/power at around 2 minutes in. When my swing was in it's darkest moments I did exactly as he did to re-learn things... and then when I got it I never thought about it again.



[youtube]
This guy is such a douche I had to stop the video 30 seconds in to type that he is a douche, but I will skip to 2 minutes and see if he says something
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Old 06-06-2017, 11:50 PM   #152
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

Also while we're talking about my clubs:

I don't have a 3 wood, who cares, right? At the moment I'm probably ~225ish with my hybrid (thin air up here, could be exaggerating), and I don't see why I'd need a club between that and driver?
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Old 06-07-2017, 12:10 AM   #153
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

Douche guy put together a pretty sweet video and managed to seem less douchey. I liked it. Doing that everyday at the range seems like a good idea. Douchey guy is now my golf swing idol
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Old 06-07-2017, 02:53 AM   #154
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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Also while we're talking about my clubs:

I don't have a 3 wood, who cares, right? At the moment I'm probably ~225ish with my hybrid (thin air up here, could be exaggerating), and I don't see why I'd need a club between that and driver?


That depends on how far ur hybrid is compared to ur driver, which id imagine it's 40-50 yards min, I personally wouldn't want a gap big. (I know these are played out but that's what she said)


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Old 06-07-2017, 03:05 AM   #155
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aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

In regards to ur fitting, I know I may be minority here, and someone feel free to inform me if I'm way off, but I don't like it when ur still in the process of changing things, for instance the first thing that comes to mind when I see ur setup is maybe ur crouching too much, I don't know a ton about fitting but I'd be worried about if u toy with that kind of stuff after a fitting it could **** it all up worse.

I bought a new set of ap2s last year and I've held off for that reason and I'm glad I have. I'm 6 feet so I figured stock size would be a good default for me, I suppose if ur further away from what might be considered "normal" it could be always the right move.
But ur tall right? Shortening from stock size seems weird.

Also not trying to be dick st all I promise, but 105 mph chs with ur swing doesn't seem right. In particular ur casting so early (losing lag). I may be misinformed or confused about something but 105 is pretty solid, I'd of guessed mid to high 90s w the driver.
Did u catch what kind of launch monitor the fitter was using?

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Old 06-07-2017, 09:56 AM   #156
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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My irons aren't stiff enough, but for whatever reason Taylor Made put this set out extra long, and that's probably the right length for me. He said they're 3.5s (I assume this is terminology you guys know, but it could be some made up crazy talk from some lunatic in Calgary) and that I should probably use 5.5-6s or maybe even 6.5s. He said they weight 95g I believe, and that stiffer ones would be 105 or more. I tried out a heavier, stiffer club and really, really liked it.
3.5 is like senior flex for slow swings. 6.0 is a standard stiff shaft. 6.5-7.0 is x-stiff. 5.0 is regular flex
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Old 06-07-2017, 11:03 AM   #157
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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In regards to ur fitting, I know I may be minority here, and someone feel free to inform me if I'm way off, but I don't like it when ur still in the process of changing things, for instance the first thing that comes to mind when I see ur setup is maybe ur crouching too much, I don't know a ton about fitting but I'd be worried about if u toy with that kind of stuff after a fitting it could **** it all up worse.
Yea, sometimes I feel like I'm crouching a bit too much, I've kind of tried it both ways, I'll probably still tinker with it a bit, but I'm under the impression that doesn't matter THAT much, and that I should get something I'm comfortable with.

I feel like I just need the "stock long irons" or w/e, which I think is what I have, or what Taylor Made decided to make their stock on these burners.

I'm only 6'

Quote:
I bought a new set of ap2s last year and I've held off for that reason and I'm glad I have. I'm 6 feet so I figured stock size would be a good default for me, I suppose if ur further away from what might be considered "normal" it could be always the right move.
But ur tall right? Shortening from stock size seems weird.

Also not trying to be dick st all I promise, but 105 mph chs with ur swing doesn't seem right. In particular ur casting so early (losing lag). I may be misinformed or confused about something but 105 is pretty solid, I'd of guessed mid to high 90s w the driver.
Did u catch what kind of launch monitor the fitter was using?

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I just googled some common launch monitors bc I think I'd recognize the name if I heard it, and maybe it was a flight scope?

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3.5 is like senior flex for slow swings. 6.0 is a standard stiff shaft. 6.5-7.0 is x-stiff. 5.0 is regular flex
Ok yea that seems not great. I should probably just get something about 6 or 6.5ish then and on the heavier side with the longer shafts?
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Old 06-07-2017, 11:06 AM   #158
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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That depends on how far ur hybrid is compared to ur driver, which id imagine it's 40-50 yards min, I personally wouldn't want a gap big. (I know these are played out but that's what she said)


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Probably a bit bigger difference than that with roll, but I guess I don't really find many shots that need to go in that gap. Idk, I play like once a week and I'm shooting 100 and the .1 shots having the club in my bag doesn't really matter to me that much at this point, I'll probably just wait and when I can actually shoot 85 or something get some new woods
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Old 06-07-2017, 11:28 AM   #159
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

i agree to some degree about not getting fitted for absolutely everything until you have a reasonable swing. getting fit to some huge "over the top" swing is counter-productive and i have or had the same issue.

having said that, getting fitted for shaft might not be bad.

as per stiffness, i have found quite good success with stiffer shafts even though my swing speed might not justify as per charts on the internet..... one thing about stiff shafts is you can swing really hard and the ball will take off straight. if i try to really hammer a drive with an R-flex, invariably the ball takes off at a 30 degree angle to the left and slices further - i am left-handed. basically aggressive swing with R = giant push slice from leaving clubface open but i think it's shaft bending not necessarily swing flaw.

so i think with stiff shaft your playable swing speed increases and maybe even your max swing speed as you are training the muscles for high speed swing whereas before you were holding back.
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Old 06-07-2017, 01:27 PM   #160
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

I just did some casual swings, holy **** its weird to try to do what he's talking about at the 2m mark of that video.. I'll keep messing with it in the mirror.
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Old 06-07-2017, 01:39 PM   #161
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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i agree to some degree about not getting fitted for absolutely everything until you have a reasonable swing. getting fit to some huge "over the top" swing is counter-productive and i have or had the same issue.

having said that, getting fitted for shaft might not be bad.

as per stiffness, i have found quite good success with stiffer shafts even though my swing speed might not justify as per charts on the internet..... one thing about stiff shafts is you can swing really hard and the ball will take off straight. if i try to really hammer a drive with an R-flex, invariably the ball takes off at a 30 degree angle to the left and slices further - i am left-handed. basically aggressive swing with R = giant push slice from leaving clubface open but i think it's shaft bending not necessarily swing flaw.

so i think with stiff shaft your playable swing speed increases and maybe even your max swing speed as you are training the muscles for high speed swing whereas before you were holding back.
Yea, I forgot to mention that he did a few things with tape on the face and also tape on the bottom of the club. On the bottom of the club I wound up being really good both times, and then on the club face I hit it a bit on the inside-- I think that's because I suck at lining up tbh and I feel like my mistake there is usually being too close to the ball. Idk, I'm generally inconsistent, should really start re-lining up before every shot, maybe get some lines so I have a consistent length as we talked about.

The more I think about it the more I think I really wanna get some heavier stiffer irons so I should just get maybe some 2016 M2s or something making sure they have similar length clubs to what I have right now.

Kinda funny btw he gave me a super heavy stiff shaft to try (I think it was like a 115g 6.5) and I liked it, hit it straight both times, but both times a little thin, and he said "well I didn't wanna tell you before you swung but those are regular length not extra long." So that made sense.

Even though I might not have my "true" swing just yet, it seems like getting "stock extra long" or w/e irons that are same length as my current ones is probably good and they'll be a huge improvement over what I have and last me a this season and next at the minimum?
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Old 06-07-2017, 10:31 PM   #162
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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Yea, sometimes I feel like I'm crouching a bit too much, I've kind of tried it both ways, I'll probably still tinker with it a bit, but I'm under the impression that doesn't matter THAT much, and that I should get something I'm comfortable with.

I feel like I just need the "stock long irons" or w/e, which I think is what I have, or what Taylor Made decided to make their stock on these burners.

I'm only 6'



I just googled some common launch monitors bc I think I'd recognize the name if I heard it, and maybe it was a flight scope?



Ok yea that seems not great. I should probably just get something about 6 or 6.5ish then and on the heavier side with the longer shafts?
Flightscopes are solid.
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Old 06-08-2017, 01:03 AM   #163
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

6/7: I shot 101 today at the same course I have been playing. Probably about my median outcome.
  • I had 2 four putts from ~65 feet
  • Course is only 6183 from the blues, I hit a handful of awesome wedge shots to within 15 feet
  • Didn't make anything over a 7, I'd imagine that's the first time in my life that's happened
  • I still can't get out of trouble, way too many shots from "other" to "the fescue" and such

I went to the range earlier and hit some wedges and worked on chipping, I tried to measure my 60 degree, SW, and PW with a 'standard' quarter chip. I got 8 yards in the air, 6 yards roll for the 60, 10/10, 12/14. Need to do this a bunch more and watch some videos.

I was hitting my 56 so well that I took some video of it to see if I was getting my hands a little more in front of the ball-- of course I immediately start duffing it all over the place, but I'll post those videos tomorrow.

I tried to do some half swings with super lag as the douche guy shows in previously linked video, but man it's hard. Makes me physically uncomfortable for sure, doesn't feel natural at all.
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Old 06-08-2017, 07:17 AM   #164
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

btw, when i said that getting fitted to a huge "over the top" swing was counter-productive i didn't mean that describes you. i meant it as more extreme example of don't get fitted until you work out more kinks - none of which are huge in your case.

i don't know much about fitting. i suppose things like length, weight and stiffness could only help. other things like offset, game improvement etc. you might not want to get fitted yet.

are those #'s for stiffness generic to golf equipment? or are they true temper project x numbers? if they are true temper, then eventually there is something higher than 7.0. there's x100. i think that's correct..........

you're in canada........ golfavenue.ca sells good used equipment. i have a driver with very stiff shaft coming right now. there you can buy single titleist ap2 - the most acclaimed iron by far - with a bunch of different shaft options. 6 iron as it'll be demo - used or new.

i love heavy stiff shafts......... you can swing as hard as you want and the club stays stable.

i caddied at vancouver pga stop last week. was surprised my player played project x 6.0 iron shafts. i can hit 6.5 well and he must have me by at least 20 mph on his driver swing speed. my hitting 6.5 well is probably a bit more true that it's mats at driving range for a 3 or 4 iron. but something like 6 iron is no problem.
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Old 06-08-2017, 02:34 PM   #165
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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btw, when i said that getting fitted to a huge "over the top" swing was counter-productive i didn't mean that describes you. i meant it as more extreme example of don't get fitted until you work out more kinks - none of which are huge in your case.

i don't know much about fitting. i suppose things like length, weight and stiffness could only help. other things like offset, game improvement etc. you might not want to get fitted yet.

are those #'s for stiffness generic to golf equipment? or are they true temper project x numbers? if they are true temper, then eventually there is something higher than 7.0. there's x100. i think that's correct..........

you're in canada........ golfavenue.ca sells good used equipment. i have a driver with very stiff shaft coming right now. there you can buy single titleist ap2 - the most acclaimed iron by far - with a bunch of different shaft options. 6 iron as it'll be demo - used or new.

i love heavy stiff shafts......... you can swing as hard as you want and the club stays stable.

i caddied at vancouver pga stop last week. was surprised my player played project x 6.0 iron shafts. i can hit 6.5 well and he must have me by at least 20 mph on his driver swing speed. my hitting 6.5 well is probably a bit more true that it's mats at driving range for a 3 or 4 iron. but something like 6 iron is no problem.
Yea-- I'm planning on avoiding that, but I can't imagine I'll need that until I'm like a single digit which probably won't be for something like 18 months. I think getting some heavier "stock" long irons would be a good short term fix, and it's nbd if I have to buy/sell clubs in 6 months, I don't mind losing a cpl hundred bucks on the transaction
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Old 06-08-2017, 04:10 PM   #166
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

golfavenue is good. i think it's golf town's used clubs although golf town has its own used site but it seems like the exact same inventory and same/similar price.

golfavenue and other used sites are nice because you can buy clubs one by one for everything but specific irons and then you have some success.

plus you can find an old cheap driver with a heavy, stiff shaft and away you go..... maybe get a fairly cheap recent driver and swap in the shaft from older driver.

like i said it's nice to hit heavy, stiff because i can go really hard at the ball and it takes off very straight.... even if you can't hit it to play it i think swinging these clubs is good swing training.
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Old 06-08-2017, 05:05 PM   #167
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

I forgot this was stapled to the receipt, found it in my car

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Old 06-08-2017, 05:18 PM   #168
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

If anyone has any feedback based on that sheet or other things said in this thread lmk, I'm prob gonna get some irons this week so I'm not playing these flimsy mf'ers anymore
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Old 06-08-2017, 07:10 PM   #169
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

your swing speed 102 is impressive...

good smash factor... ball speed divided by clubhead speed. i think 1.5 is optimal. i may have even read that's the maximum but i doubt that's correct.

only thing that really jumps out at me is you don't hit 3 iron any further than 6 iron and it has a higher launch. but not being able to hit 3i that well is the least of most player's problems.

definitely your clubhead speed = stiff......... and i think you'd like heavy........ can golftown B&M hook you up with demo 6i for titleist ap2 and heavy fairly stiff... i wouldn't go overboard on money and really stiff for whole set as you might regret it..

that's why i like buying the single 6 iron or a cheap used driver with stiff shaft.
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Old 06-08-2017, 08:05 PM   #170
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

fwiw that 3 iron is a m2 hybrid from last season. i kinda liked that club until he told me it was a super flexible shaft, now i use that as the excuse for why i spray it . also i feel like some of those hits had a fair bit of variance in them-- i probably mis hit ~1 of the 6-9 shots i hit with each club. maybe he excluded those, idk for sure.

wouldn't it be weird buying just one stiff club and playing a round like that? i guess i could get one and use it for like a week and then buy a set?

but yes i hit that heavy stiff 7i and i thought it was amazing. and when he went from 105 to 115g shaft i thought it was even better.
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Old 06-08-2017, 08:34 PM   #171
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

Is it harmful to be playing with shafts this flexible or nah?
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Old 06-08-2017, 08:54 PM   #172
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

6/8: 1 bucket, I worked pretty extensively on just doing drills to keep lag. In these I was thinking about getting my right elbow basically to my belly button. I felt like I kinda almost did it in a few of these? I think the first shot was the best shot I've ever hit and the others I think I duffed to some degree.

I'm currently oscillating between thinking about shortening my backswing (this is really hard, I feel like if I start the transition too soon I get excited and bring the arms around too quick) and getting my right elbow in and keeping my hands neutral. Starting the downswing with the hips has already kinda gotten ingrained in me, I think.







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Old 06-09-2017, 12:30 AM   #173
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

I'm gonna get these unless someone tells me I'm dumb for doing it

http://www.golfavenue.ca/en/golf-clu...-set-tm-s07246

I think they're probably for someone of a much higher skill level, but who ****ing cares I'll grow into 'em
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Old 06-09-2017, 01:40 AM   #174
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

Yeah I wouldn't be worried about that, they don't look that bladey, which would be the only type to stay away from for you prob. Snatch um up, man, not many things are more beautiful than brand new Irons.
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Old 06-09-2017, 01:45 AM   #175
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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your swing speed 102 is impressive...

good smash factor... ball speed divided by clubhead speed. i think 1.5 is optimal. i may have even read that's the maximum but i doubt that's correct.

only thing that really jumps out at me is you don't hit 3 iron any further than 6 iron and it has a higher launch. but not being able to hit 3i that well is the least of most player's problems.

definitely your clubhead speed = stiff......... and i think you'd like heavy........ can golftown B&M hook you up with demo 6i for titleist ap2 and heavy fairly stiff... i wouldn't go overboard on money and really stiff for whole set as you might regret it..

that's why i like buying the single 6 iron or a cheap used driver with stiff shaft.
Yeah 102 is good, yeah when you cast like he does (and myself still too often) a 3 iron and a 6 iron aren't gonna be hugely different sometimes sadly.
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