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Old 05-23-2017, 04:43 PM   #26
aejones
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

I played 10 holes today and shot a 58 (54 on the front, guy I was playing with had to leave, parred #10 and then realized with a foursome in front of me it might get slow so I just went to the range).

Highlights (or lowlights)
  • Three off the tee (total mis-hit top, no idea, don't think I did that in a few hundred drives at the range) and then quadruple on a par 5
  • Had 9 feet for birdie after I skillfully used the right bank to basically roll the ball across the green at a 90 degree angle, made par
  • One four putt (I'm totally hopeless from like 75 feet, no feel for it and don't feel like I understand how to increase my club head speed the right amount on putting) and I'd guess 3ish three putts
  • Hit a 318 yard drive (thin air, dry conditions) on a par 5, hit a 4 iron hole high but it rolled off left off a 'cliff,' saved bogey
  • Ended the round with a par on #10, pretty open par 4 (12 handicap) where I hit a mediocre drive with a little hook on it and was able to put a gap wedge to 15 feet out of the first cut

Overall I'd say that I'm starting to hook the ball now, which I'm okay with, because I've been working so hard on correcting the slice. Once or twice I inadvertently tried to kill it and got too far outside in and sprayed it right, but for the most part my misses were hook-y. I'll work on correcting that by just doing less exaggerated versions of what I'm working on now. Overall I'd say the round was pretty reasonable, within range. Oh also I played it with exactly zero warmup because it was a last minute tee time [/excuses].
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Old 05-23-2017, 04:51 PM   #27
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

I wouldn't get fitted until you developed a consistent swing.
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Old 05-23-2017, 04:56 PM   #28
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

Hit this first one super thin, not a normal miss for me (though obviously I scald it from time to time). I was trying to be significantly more upright in these shots. It didn't feel particularly natural to me, I'm used to the more athletic position of squatting/defensive position in basketball.

AW:


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Old 05-23-2017, 05:08 PM   #29
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

For these 6 irons I actually tried hovering my club a half inch off the ground before I took it back. I am kind of just toying with things at this point to see what I like. I don't mind this, I like the way I'm not resting before I take it back, keeps me active.

6 iron:


6 iron:


6 iron:
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Old 05-23-2017, 05:41 PM   #30
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

I kinda like your swing to be honest.

To correct that first thin shot with the gap wedge, here's something Bobby Clampett preaches: Don't aim to hit the ball - aim to hit a spot about half an inch in front of the ball. That weirds me out a little, so I usually look at the very front of the ball. That has cured my thin shots. It's such a simple fix that it feels like it shouldn't work, but man, has it. It makes me hit the ball first and swing through it.

His main point is that the lowest point of your swing should be a few inches in front of the ball, giving you a nice divot. And it seems like you do that on your second wedge shot.
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Old 05-23-2017, 06:03 PM   #31
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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I kinda like your swing to be honest.

To correct that first thin shot with the gap wedge, here's something Bobby Clampett preaches: Don't aim to hit the ball - aim to hit a spot about half an inch in front of the ball. That weirds me out a little, so I usually look at the very front of the ball. That has cured my thin shots. It's such a simple fix that it feels like it shouldn't work, but man, has it. It makes me hit the ball first and swing through it.

His main point is that the lowest point of your swing should be a few inches in front of the ball, giving you a nice divot. And it seems like you do that on your second wedge shot.
"small ball, big ball" someone told me

Last edited by aejones; 05-23-2017 at 06:03 PM. Reason: (earth)
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Old 05-23-2017, 06:05 PM   #32
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

I actually use the aim for the front of the ball for pitches and chipping lately. Works great, although I need to learn distance control with it.

As everyone said the swing looks good and a lesson or two might do wonders for you.

I didn't read through all of the posts but it looks like you are coming outside to inside on your downswing. Is your miss a pull?
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Old 05-23-2017, 06:14 PM   #33
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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I actually use the aim for the front of the ball for pitches and chipping lately. Works great, although I need to learn distance control with it.

As everyone said the swing looks good and a lesson or two might do wonders for you.

I didn't read through all of the posts but it looks like you are coming outside to inside on your downswing. Is your miss a pull?
I have had really, really bad slices in the past. Very elbow disconnected, over the top, outside in hard slices. Very vertical swing

In the last 6 months I've started to learn how much more horizontal things are, so I focus on getting getting the club around my shoulder instead of over my shoulder, and I focus on staying inside and going "7 to 1" on the clockface through impact. I still have problems, but more recently with focus on this I have been hooking it more often as my standard miss (though tbh I wouldn't say I have a standard miss, I'm still kind of all over the place, probably from general lack of playing)
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Old 05-23-2017, 06:40 PM   #34
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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I played 10 holes today and shot a 58 (54 on the front, guy I was playing with had to leave, parred #10 and then realized with a foursome in front of me it might get slow so I just went to the range).

Highlights (or lowlights)
  • Three off the tee (total mis-hit top, no idea, don't think I did that in a few hundred drives at the range) and then quadruple on a par 5
  • Had 9 feet for birdie after I skillfully used the right bank to basically roll the ball across the green at a 90 degree angle, made par
  • One four putt (I'm totally hopeless from like 75 feet, no feel for it and don't feel like I understand how to increase my club head speed the right amount on putting) and I'd guess 3ish three putts
  • Hit a 318 yard drive (thin air, dry conditions) on a par 5, hit a 4 iron hole high but it rolled off left off a 'cliff,' saved bogey
  • Ended the round with a par on #10, pretty open par 4 (12 handicap) where I hit a mediocre drive with a little hook on it and was able to put a gap wedge to 15 feet out of the first cut

Overall I'd say that I'm starting to hook the ball now, which I'm okay with, because I've been working so hard on correcting the slice. Once or twice I inadvertently tried to kill it and got too far outside in and sprayed it right, but for the most part my misses were hook-y. I'll work on correcting that by just doing less exaggerated versions of what I'm working on now. Overall I'd say the round was pretty reasonable, within range. Oh also I played it with exactly zero warmup because it was a last minute tee time [/excuses].
You probably know this in regards to new ball flight laws but spraying the ball right doesn't always mean out to in. Obv you know the shot so it probably was the reason but it isn't always. Giant blocks right is a typical miss when trying to draw it.

On the off chance you haven't had the ball flight explained there is a thread on here you should search for.

Basically ball starts where the club face is pointed and curves depending on if the face is closed or open to the club path. Like I said I assume you know this but just in case it is really a must know.
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Old 05-23-2017, 07:01 PM   #35
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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In the last 6 months I've started to learn how much more horizontal things are, so I focus on getting getting the club around my shoulder instead of over my shoulder, and I focus on staying inside and going "7 to 1" on the clockface through impact.
You have the right idea but I think in practice you are going about it backwards. Your swing is only a few tweaks away from being pretty good. As far as the horizontal thing you keep mentioning, I see you trying to take the club back more horizontally, but this is causing you to come over the top as you start the downswing. You should be thinking to go more vertical on the backswing and then let the clubhead drop and be more horizontal on your downswing.

If your first move going from backswing to downswing was to relax your right hand/wrist (so that the clubhead can fall) and pull your right elbow against your side before you start to swing your upper body at all I believe you would find yourself in a much better position to truly come into impact from "7 to 1" as you say. Then its just a matter of figuring out what you need to do to square the face up but that should also come easier.
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Old 05-23-2017, 09:21 PM   #36
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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I'm sure that I can take off a dozen strokes with short game, but I find golf to be much more enjoyable with good ball striking so my plan to get better is to just hit infinite range balls (shooting for 10,000 this summer) and post regular videos until I'm hitting a bunch of GIRs. Of course I will occasionally work on short game, and probably near the end of the summer it'll be my primary focus, but for now I want to have a bunch of birdie putts to miss.
Your swing fundamentals are really good bro, keep hitting balls at the range and it will come around. However, you gotta get out and work on your short game stat. Your game will improve by leaps and bounds if you spend as much, if not more time on short game than on the range. Learn a basic chip, pitch and bunker shot and practice each to different distances and your scores will improve immediately. If you start to develop the mentality that you can get up and down from anywhere your ball striking will also improve because you'll be less concerned about misses.

Phil Mickelson's short-game dvd changed my life, get it and apply what he teaches.
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Old 05-23-2017, 10:47 PM   #37
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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You probably know this in regards to new ball flight laws but spraying the ball right doesn't always mean out to in. Obv you know the shot so it probably was the reason but it isn't always. Giant blocks right is a typical miss when trying to draw it.
What do you mean by this? "Giant blocks right?"

Quote:
On the off chance you haven't had the ball flight explained there is a thread on here you should search for.

Basically ball starts where the club face is pointed and curves depending on if the face is closed or open to the club path. Like I said I assume you know this but just in case it is really a must know.
I will try to find the thread, I'd imagine there are a bunch of reasons from grip to club path to weight shifting to hip turn, etc. I'm pretty sure mine was from my elbow coming out wide, me coming super over the top, and then correcting to bring the club back inside-- this is basically what I had explained to me at both of my lessons
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Old 05-23-2017, 10:54 PM   #38
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

Block right, or at least how I use it is a flushed driver that you don't square the face as you are swinging in to out and the ball starts 10 degrees right the second it leaves the club and goes dead straight or curves slightly right resulting in a ball that misses to the right of the fairway by like 40 yards.
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Old 05-23-2017, 10:54 PM   #39
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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Originally Posted by Suit View Post
You have the right idea but I think in practice you are going about it backwards. Your swing is only a few tweaks away from being pretty good. As far as the horizontal thing you keep mentioning, I see you trying to take the club back more horizontally, but this is causing you to come over the top as you start the downswing. You should be thinking to go more vertical on the backswing and then let the clubhead drop and be more horizontal on your downswing.
So I should watch some Jim Furyk videos?

Quote:
If your first move going from backswing to downswing was to relax your right hand/wrist (so that the clubhead can fall) and pull your right elbow against your side before you start to swing your upper body at all I believe you would find yourself in a much better position to truly come into impact from "7 to 1" as you say. Then its just a matter of figuring out what you need to do to square the face up but that should also come easier.
This sounds kinda tough in practice, but I'll try it out tomorrow. I actually think I might've been inadvertently doing this, one of the things I've been working on is relaxing my grip. I've been trying to just kind of "throw" the club back there on the back swing, then have a more relaxed grip as I start coming down. I think naturally I'll come back and then at the top I grip super hard before I pull through. Results in one or two blisters/rips in my hand (sometimes I put a piece or two of athletic tap on some fingers, notably the top third of my middle finger since I start to get some ripping on the outside of it if I don't).

I'd imagine relaxing my grip might have a similar effect?
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Old 05-23-2017, 10:56 PM   #40
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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Originally Posted by Spottswoode View Post
Your swing fundamentals are really good bro, keep hitting balls at the range and it will come around. However, you gotta get out and work on your short game stat. Your game will improve by leaps and bounds if you spend as much, if not more time on short game than on the range. Learn a basic chip, pitch and bunker shot and practice each to different distances and your scores will improve immediately. If you start to develop the mentality that you can get up and down from anywhere your ball striking will also improve because you'll be less concerned about misses.

Phil Mickelson's short-game dvd changed my life, get it and apply what he teaches.
C'mon bro no one has a DVD player it's 2017
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Old 05-23-2017, 10:56 PM   #41
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/93...-laws-1064643/
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Old 05-23-2017, 10:57 PM   #42
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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Block right, or at least how I use it is a flushed driver that you don't square the face as you are swinging in to out and the ball starts 10 degrees right the second it leaves the club and goes dead straight or curves slightly right resulting in a ball that misses to the right of the fairway by like 40 yards.
Mine would start straight and have absurd amount of spin on them, just turn at like a 90 degree angle right. I don't think I've ever had a miss like you describe? One of my semi regular misses is starts left and stays left though (that one typically isn't that bad)
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Old 05-23-2017, 11:00 PM   #43
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

One thing I'd mention is I feel kind of unsure about my setup, primarily distance from the ball. I just feel like I'm a little inconsistent with it, would love it if there was just a super easy set of markers on the ground so I was always the same distance-- any use putting something on the ground at the range so I'm consistent there in hopes I internalize the distance I am from the ball and carry it over to the course?
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Old 05-23-2017, 11:11 PM   #44
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

I keep extra driver shafts in my bag and lay one down anytime I am at the range. You can go to like home depot and pick up plastic rods they use in winter to mark driveways or you can buy alignment sticks from golf sites that are over priced. I never practice without having a shaft on the ground. You can also put a shaft at a 90 degree angle to the other one which will help you keep your ball position consistent.
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Old 05-23-2017, 11:13 PM   #45
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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Mine would start straight and have absurd amount of spin on them, just turn at like a 90 degree angle right. I don't think I've ever had a miss like you describe? One of my semi regular misses is starts left and stays left though (that one typically isn't that bad)
Yeah that is on over the top out to in issue then. Same club path but you get the face closed more with cause the straight pull.
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Old 05-24-2017, 12:59 PM   #46
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

you really need to fix the putting......... i would think putting is really easy but maybe not for everyone..... anyway, it should be incredibly fixable.....

if you have huge problems with it that persist then look into some kind of metronome stroke. you can google it.

absolutely love bobby clampett's book except i think he's wrong as you get to the driver - and it helps to have a strongish grip for much of it... ex-the driver issue i think clampett's book is the best golf book i've ever read.
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Old 05-24-2017, 01:22 PM   #47
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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you really need to fix the putting......... i would think putting is really easy but maybe not for everyone..... anyway, it should be incredibly fixable.....



if you have huge problems with it that persist then look into some kind of metronome stroke. you can google it.



absolutely love bobby clampett's book except i think he's wrong as you get to the driver - and it helps to have a strongish grip for much of it... ex-the driver issue i think clampett's book is the best golf book i've ever read.


Agree, but I see where he is coming from. Putting and chipping are very easy things to practice and fix. From what OP is saying, he wants to become a good ball striker before he even starts working on the short game.
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Old 05-24-2017, 01:38 PM   #48
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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So I should watch some Jim Furyk videos?
Actually, yes. He is way over exaggerated but that is the idea. try to mimmick him but not so exaggerated and see what happens for a few shots.

Your swing naturally will make a loop so if on the way back you are flat or the club is more behind you then on the way down it will naturally move out and turn into an out to in path that is hard to recover from.

I feel like your first move down is like you say to grip it tighter and then you pull down with your right shoulder. I'd like to see you relax the hands and let your right elbow get close to your side first and then start turning your hips and then shoulders last. Also, shorten your backswing. At least with irons.

I swear my swing looked very similar to yours not all that long ago and I had the same missed as you and this is the direction that fixed it for me.

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Mine would start straight and have absurd amount of spin on them, just turn at like a 90 degree angle right. I don't think I've ever had a miss like you describe? One of my semi regular misses is starts left and stays left though (that one typically isn't that bad)
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Yeah that is on over the top out to in issue then. Same club path but you get the face closed more with cause the straight pull.
I agree. If your ball starts straight where you are aiming and then curves right this means your club face was square to the target at impact and your swing was out to in. If it takes almost a 90 degree turn right then you were more like 4 to 10 or 5 to 11.

If your ball starts to the left and stays relatively straight without curving then your club was closed to the target and your club path was still out to in like 5 to 11.

Ball flight laws simplified:

If your face is square to target and path is square or 6 to 12 as you put it then the ball will go dead straight at the target. We call this 0* face angle and 0* path.

If your face is open to the target 5* and your path is in to out 5* then your ball will start 5* to the right and not curve at all.

If your face is open to the target 5* and your path is in to out 8* then your ball will start ~5* to the right and curve back to the left.

If your face is open to the target 5* and your path is in to out 2* then your ball will start 5* to the right and curve even more to the right.

To figure out what will occur with a face that is closed to the target just take the opposite of the above.

Basically you can swing with an in to out path (7 to 1) and still hit a slice. Your face angle will determine the starting line of the ball. The path, as it relates to the face angle, will determine the curve of the ball.
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Old 05-24-2017, 02:40 PM   #49
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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Actually, yes. He is way over exaggerated but that is the idea. try to mimmick him but not so exaggerated and see what happens for a few shots.

Your swing naturally will make a loop so if on the way back you are flat or the club is more behind you then on the way down it will naturally move out and turn into an out to in path that is hard to recover from.
I vaguely tried this today, but it was a little too drastic to hit many shots with. I did try loosening the grip. I'd guess that's doing something positive for me. I'll try to do a little more serious Furyk next time to go to the range

Quote:
I feel like your first move down is like you say to grip it tighter and then you pull down with your right shoulder. I'd like to see you relax the hands and let your right elbow get close to your side first and then start turning your hips and then shoulders last. Also, shorten your backswing. At least with irons

I swear my swing looked very similar to yours not all that long ago and I had the same missed as you and this is the direction that fixed it for me.
I feel like I did that today and I lost a ton of power, like 15 yards off my iron shots. I'd sacrifice that for more straightness for sure and less severe misses. Maybe something I do brings that back.


Quote:
Ball flight laws simplified:

If your face is square to target and path is square or 6 to 12 as you put it then the ball will go dead straight at the target. We call this 0* face angle and 0* path.

If your face is open to the target 5* and your path is in to out 5* then your ball will start 5* to the right and not curve at all.

If your face is open to the target 5* and your path is in to out 8* then your ball will start ~5* to the right and curve back to the left.


If your face is open to the target 5* and your path is in to out 2* then your ball will start 5* to the right and curve even more to the right.

To figure out what will occur with a face that is closed to the target just take the opposite of the above.

Basically you can swing with an in to out path (7 to 1) and still hit a slice. Your face angle will determine the starting line of the ball. The path, as it relates to the face angle, will determine the curve of the ball.
I don't really understand the difference between these two, just the face angle?

I think I mostly understand the physics, I'm basically thinking of it as "when my club is parallel to the ground (quarter backswing), the face is perpendicular to the ground, it's the opposite when I'm a quarter swing through, and between there in the contact zone my wrists are basically 'ripping' or 'flicking' through. To me it feels natural to come up top and pull in, so I try to exaggerate the pushing out/inside out motion.
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Old 05-24-2017, 02:42 PM   #50
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Re: aejones shaves 25 strokes off his game

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you really need to fix the putting......... i would think putting is really easy but maybe not for everyone..... anyway, it should be incredibly fixable.....

if you have huge problems with it that persist then look into some kind of metronome stroke. you can google it.

absolutely love bobby clampett's book except i think he's wrong as you get to the driver - and it helps to have a strongish grip for much of it... ex-the driver issue i think clampett's book is the best golf book i've ever read.
Yea yea yea I will, I'll do some putting in a couple weeks. I just don't care about scores right now, and while I'm not saying it'll be "easy" it's just so much more simple conceptually that a few sessions of really focusing on how far back I go to get each distance, proper clubhead speed, keeping the path straight, etc. should be sufficient to lag putt from 15-20 feet, which is probably my biggest problem (oh, also, missing 4 footers!)
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