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The Match III (handicap discussion)

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11-24-2020 , 01:30 AM

wamplerr

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,233

The format is Modified alternate shot. A and B tee off, alternate and play the second shot, and choose one ball from there.

Steph Curry (scratch) and Peyton Manning (6 handicap)
vs
Mickelson and Charles Barkley.

Let’s say Barkley carries a handicap of X. What is X to make this a 50-50 match?

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11-24-2020 , 02:25 PM

Hey_Porter

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 5,896

I call this a Chapman (maybe modified Chapman?). Is that accurate?

I'm not savvy enough to guess, but it's a lot. I've never seen Charles putt, but he's most likely going to be putting from Phil's shot into the green, which even if it's close, he's got a good chance of missing. Even when they're hitting Chuck's shot onto the green, it's gotta be close enough for Phil to make, and then you've got Chuck again.

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11-24-2020 , 06:40 PM

campfirewest

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Barkley's handicap is actually X, because he takes an X on like half the holes. I give them no chance.

As to your actual question I have no idea. Phil is probably like a +6 or better? It seems like his partner needs to be capable of hitting at least decent second shots, and not totally going to pieces around the greens. Maybe a 10?

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11-24-2020 , 09:40 PM

702guy

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why don't they just have moobs vs. curry/manning?

watching barkley shank it up and slow everyone down will be fun for maybe one hole.

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11-25-2020 , 06:27 PM

scottc25

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Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,434

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hey_Porter

Chapman is different. In that game you hit your tee shot, hit the other person's ball, then decide on what ball to take and alternate from there. Modified alternate shot you have to choose after the tee shot.

Usually in a format like that it's 67% A player plus 33% B player. So whatever that math would equal.

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11-25-2020 , 06:30 PM

scottc25

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,434

Math math math

+6 * 67% = +4
Let's say Charles is a 24 cap - 24 * .33 = 8
So they would be a 4.

Steph / Peyton would be a 2 cap.

Bet accordingly I guess.

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11-25-2020 , 07:07 PM

Hey_Porter

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Quote:

Originally Posted by scottc25

Isn't that what they're doing here?

"The four all-star athletes will be competing in a modified alternate shot format. All four participants will tee off at each hole, but then they'll switch balls on the second shot. This means that Phil Mickelson will be playing from Charles Barkley's tee shot, and vice versa. After everyone's second shot, each team will play alternate shots until the hole is decided."

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11-25-2020 , 08:11 PM

scottc25

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Hey_Porter

Yep, I only read as far as modified alternate shot and stopped there. Yeah they are playing Chapman.

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11-25-2020 , 08:38 PM

Hey_Porter

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 5,896

Chuck apparently gets to tee off from special "Chuck Tees."

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11-25-2020 , 09:23 PM

#10

REDeYeS00

always sloppy

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 22,742

special Chuck Tees probably means all of the forced carries are taken out of play.

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11-25-2020 , 10:10 PM

#11

grando1.0

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No it means he gets free reign to yell at his ball, clubs, partner, caddy, Jesus Christ, the greenskeeper, Kenny, sponsors, etc without being T'd up

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11-26-2020 , 01:02 AM

#12

LFC_USA

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So this is Basically Curry/Manning v. Chuck's putting?

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11-26-2020 , 10:57 AM

#13

scottc25

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That's pretty much how I see it. With the Phil missing a green factor I can see Steph/Peyton being the slight favorite.

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11-26-2020 , 08:51 PM

#14

LFC_USA

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Just had a look at some props. Will there be an Eagle is +400. I might not be understanding this correctly, but if Chuck is hitting from the "Chuck tees" and Mickelson is hitting his 2nd shot isn't there a really good shot Chuck (lol Chuck) will be putting for eagle on most par 5s? O/u birdies combined is only 6.5 (with a ton of juice on the over). In scramble formats aren't scores typically low even for weekend donks?

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11-27-2020 , 04:26 PM

#15

natediggity

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Chuck looking competent so far

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11-27-2020 , 07:32 PM

#16

wamplerr

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,233

Sorry I didn't make it back to this before the match started. I ended up with a small bet on team Mickelson. Phil said that he used to play with Charles a lot when Charles when on the Suns, and that he was actually a good golfer (could break 80), and then added the hitch in his swing for some odd reason. This lead me to believe he could at least be competent around the greens.

My other thought was, we know Phil is a gambler, and has played in a lot of handicapped situations. I didn't think he would agree to a match where he thought he was an underdog.

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11-28-2020 , 11:20 AM

#17

campfirewest

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Quote:

Originally Posted by campfirewest

Barkley's handicap is actually X, because he takes an X on like half the holes. I give them no chance.

I think my posting developed a hitch.

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11-28-2020 , 11:36 AM

#18

Booker Wolfbox

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Was it worth watching? I have it DVR'd but find these made for TV events are hit or miss and dunno if I want to invest the time.

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11-28-2020 , 12:50 PM

#19

Tom Ames

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Booker Wolfbox

Was it worth watching? I have it DVR'd but find these made for TV events are hit or miss and dunno if I want to invest the time.

Probably not. I watched it and my impression was that the first hour or so of banter was the best part of the entire thing. Maybe even up to the hole where Ernie Johnson, Shaq, and Kenny Smith are heckling Barkley as that was probably the highlight. It certainly isn't worth watching for the golf.

edit: Since you have it DVR'd, I'd watch from the beginning until the banter no longer amuses you, then I would fast forward to the hole where those three guys are yakking at Barkley. Then I'd find something else to do.

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11-28-2020 , 03:19 PM

#20

scottc25

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Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,434

Agreed. Probably not worth it. I lasted about 5 holes before I tuned out. Came back to it later, but no, not really worth watching.

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11-28-2020 , 04:48 PM

#21

natediggity

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it was meh. Barkley played too good and it wasn't competitive. It's amazing to see the talent difference between Phil and a scratch golfer. Not even in the same universe. I know this is a "duh" comment but still.

The commentary was lackluster as well. Trevor Immelman doesn't do it for me. Michelle Wie and Andre Iguodala offered nothing. And Gary McCord is past his prime (Justin Thomas was much better IMO).

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11-30-2020 , 01:24 AM

#22

stinkypete

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Dunno why some of you guys didn't enjoy it, I'm guessing you didn't bet enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by natediggity

Obv the difference is huge, but Steph was also having a really shitty day. And a lot of scratch golfers are going to have a massive difference between, say, their top 20% rounds and bottom 20% rounds. That's where a lot of the edge for the pro golfer comes from - if the scratch has a bottom 40% round, he basically never wins against a top pro, even with appropriate handicaps.

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11-30-2020 , 10:45 AM

#23

LFC_USA

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I enjoyed it. Came away with Steph being a guy that lies about his score and brags about being a scratch golfer. How in the world was the team with a PRO a (significant) underdog??

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11-30-2020 , 02:56 PM

#24

Tom Ames

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Quote:

Originally Posted by LFC_USA

I enjoyed it. Came away with Steph being a guy that lies about his score and brags about being a scratch golfer. How in the world was the team with a PRO a (significant) underdog??

People apparently expected Barkley to spray his tee shots everywhere. He didn't. Putting his ball in the fairway on tee shots from shorter tees for Phil to hit was far too big of an advantage.

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11-30-2020 , 07:02 PM

#25

Hey_Porter

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Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 5,896

I guess I'm in the minority (with Pete) who really enjoyed it, and think it's worth watching. I think it's fun watching golfers who aren't pros, and the banter was great. Enjoyed watching Phil coach Chuck through putts and strategy.

(My +140 bet on Phil and Chuck didn't HURT the enjoyment factor)

Quote:

Originally Posted by stinkypete

Dunno why some of you guys didn't enjoy it, I'm guessing you didn't bet enough.

Obv the difference is huge, but Steph was also having a really shitty day. And a lot of scratch golfers are going to have a massive difference between, say, their top 20% rounds and bottom 20% rounds. That's where a lot of the edge for the pro golfer comes from - if the scratch has a bottom 40% round, he basically never wins against a top pro, even with appropriate handicaps.

Yeah, this. The guys I know at my club with plus handicaps routinely shoot under par, but I'm also not shocked when they shoot mid-to-upper 70s. And the difference between a +1 and 1 is a pretty big gap in and of itself.

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