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Living in Cambodia and turning Pro Living in Cambodia and turning Pro

07-19-2018 , 02:09 PM
30$ is very cheap, I never saw it close to that, good deal. It's kinda "peak low season" now, but still games will be running, don't worry


Thanks for the infos PT. I can only say that Cambodian guy mentioned was always very nice and gentle and helpful to me, yes, it would appear somewhat out of character to be the driving force in this. From my encounters with him at RK1 he still appears to enjoy the poker games, although he still is terrible at it. Since this is about the stuff here I will also mention that the American owner, who is also a nice guy, always struck me as being much more interested in just having a few sparring partners for his afternoon/early evening games before retreating to his daily bubble bath rather than running the room professionally and all there is to it
Living in Cambodia and turning Pro Quote
07-21-2018 , 09:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yazzx
Sadly not.. But it shouldn't be too hard to find players who want to buy BTC..
I always regret not taking my BTC profits and setting up in Cambo.

Ive read your old epic threads Yaz, what is up with your brother Iz, still playing pokies or get a real gig like the most of the rest of us chumps.
Living in Cambodia and turning Pro Quote
07-22-2018 , 08:32 AM
I'd like to table Phnom Penh for the moment and jump right into Sihanoukville and what it has been like running a room here. I should start with our room and how we've done since the ownership change back in April. We've had a game nearly every day, being completely dark only one day. Considering there were something like fifteen rooms when we started and only four now, having run a game daily is a big accomplishment. We started off with just $1-$1 and lost money the first month. We offered free food to attract players and the small game just wasn't bringing in enough money. We successfully transitioned to $1-$2 and have stayed there for about two months now. We're not killing it, but most of the hard work everyone has put in has paid off.

We also had a $2-$5 game, but it wasn't really ours and this speaks volumes about the situation in Sihanoukville. We rented two tables out to a Chinese group and they ran their own game where we took a small percentage as well in exchange for the use of our dealers and facilities. That game has died out for the most part and the remnants of them play in our $1-$2 game. But this is how most rooms here are configured. There is no game in town that is made up primarily of players that have developed naturally. Instead what you have are various groups of Chinese that rent a room and then either put themselves in or members of there group to start each game. Then they attract Westerners with either the promise of Chinese fish or as often is the case now with various rakeback deals. Everything here is about groups and affiliations. Ours and maybe one other game in town are the only ones that have come close to developing a player base with little financial incentive.

Also, there is no casino that runs their own poker game. All rooms are rented out by these groups and the rents are unbelievably high. One room in particular paid a $40,000 deposit for a six month lease and pays an additional $13,500 per month for basically running one table. This explains why the rake is so high in these rooms. $2-$5 games are typically capped at $30, $5-$10 at $50 and there was once a $10-$20 game in which the rake cap was over $100. The percentage is relatively low at 5%, but I am of the belief that this cannot overcome the high caps. Let's do a little math to further illustrate what is going on. I sat in a $2-$5 game at the WM when they had a room and counted each and every hand from every single dealer down. The worst thirty minute period was one in which the dealer dropped $125 in rake. So if we use that conservative figure and expand it to $250 per hour and estimate that a table averages to be eight handed throughout a session, then each player is paying over $30 of rake per hour. I am of the opinion that this cannot possibly be sustained.

But one might argue about the rakeback and various deals that players down here receive. But that creates a situation for the room that is untenable as now they cannot maintain their ability to keep paying their rents in the long run. Not to mention that the groups playing in these games are losing and end up paying themselves out of their own pocket. Oddly enough the rake in the lower games are better but the win rates are probably not nearly enough for the bigger players for it to matter. I suppose this is a long winded way for me to say that everything seems to work a*s backwards here. Where I come from, players were rewarded in terms of rake the higher they played and not the other way around.

I want to try something here that may put us at odds with every other room in town. But in all honesty it has already been that way from the beginning. It could have been the whole Riverking branding but it seems as if other rooms have been gunning for us from the beginning. Those who have played in Vegas know that the standard rake system there is 10% capped at $5, from $1-$2 up to their bigger games that don't take time rake. I've already changed the $1-$1 to 10% capped at $4, although this game doesn't really run anymore, and $1-$2 to 10% capped at $5. This is what I'm used to from back home and it's what I did for the $1-$3 game at Riverking. But the big change would really be for the games of $2-$5 and $5-$10 where I would still cap the rake at $5. Our monthly rent is considerably lower than other rooms and come the closest to emulating a situation in which we are run by the actual casino. As our overhead is lower, we don't need to cap rakes at $30, $50 and $100. i just have to start a game with this rake for a consistent amount of time in order for it to gain momentum and traction. I'm hoping to meet with some players over the next few days on both the expat and Chinese side to try to gain some support among players. We'll see how it goes.
Living in Cambodia and turning Pro Quote
07-22-2018 , 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by poker_triad
From my perspective the start of RK1 began when we had two visiting players from Singapore. They were pushing their PPpoker club and wanted us to work with them. As discussions progressed one of them mentioned to me that he had a scheduled lunch with someone about being the manager of a new poker room opening up in Phnom Penh. Then he dropped that the Cambodian manager of our room was involved and knew all about it. I don't really beat around the bush so I asked the manager directly what this was all about. He first denied all knowledge and then later backtracked and said that he took a meeting, but only to discourage them from doing it and making sure that such a thing would never happen. In what I admit was a naive mistake, we gave him the benefit of the doubt and moved on.

Fast forward about three months later and we received word that the original owner of the Riverking would be opening up a new room in one months time, that it would be located two blocks from us and that it would be called Riverking 1 Pub. The news was confirmed to me by the aforementioned Khmer manager of our room, at which point he also informed me that he would be going over along with two dealers and the head cashier and server. In the following weeks the room went along well and while we did slow down a bit once the new room opened, we bounced back and still had two games everyday including the big Omaha game. But then just about when the month was coming to an end the remaining dealers told us that they were instructed to finish out the month, collect their salaries then "disappear." The assumption was that we would be caught by surprise and they would later be given jobs in the new room.

At this point we were preparing for the opening of the Sihanoukville room and we had already hired a couple of dealers. So we brought them up to Phnom Penh, hired a few more and we were fine when our old dealers "disappeared." So we continued to carry on and while business dipped a bit, the room was still profitable and under no threat of closure. We had internal discussions at this point about what our strategy should be going forward as it did seem as if the two rooms could coexist. But we wondered aloud if they would be content with such an outcome. We received an emphatic answer to this question when our lone remaining Cambodian shareholder reported to us that he had received a threat that he should not enter the premises of our room or that "something" would happen. We knew at this point that the new room would never allow us to continue. Nothing did ever happen and so we continued on, but everything was starting to have an effect and business by this point was struggling mightily.

I've now told the "what" and "how" of the events that occurred. The only question that remains then is why. I've already mentioned that the original owner of the Riverking was the one to open the new room. But the prevailing opinion on our side was that he had very little to do with this or anything else I've mentioned thus far. At this point we need to do a little rewind in order to add some context. When the original owner sold out and left the Riverking, the next owner was American and he in turn hired me as the first non Khmer employee of the room. I was originally hired to do the marketing but was quickly made a manager. It wasn't too long before I was made General Manager and put in charge of the entire room. And while this last move didn't cost anyone their job, it did mean that the previous GM was demoted. And even though his $4,500 per month salary remained intact, still it had to sting a bit I imagine. But a lot of changes were in store that would not sit well with much of the Khmer staff. Managers were not allowed to run the tournaments alone anymore as the owner's assistant was required to be present to account for every single rebuy and add-on. The dealers were not allowed to take their "extra" tip out of the player prize pools and lastly a couple of salaries were decreased after theft was discovered. We then hired pops, another non Cambodian, and those that were previously in charge were fairly marginalized. I would like to add at this point that in most cases these changes occurred without affecting their bottom line. As previously stated the Khmer manager's salary of $4,500 remained the same and the dealers were doing quite well themselves. With tips the head dealer was making about $2,300 per month and on average as a whole the group made about $1,700 per month. And none of this even accounts for all the personal tips that the owner gave daily to all the staff.

There is another group that were affected when the American owner and I came in and those were the ones we affectionately refer to as the "bongs." Under my management the Cambodian players received no preferential treatment. I did not allow them to jump up on the waiting list and if they left their chips on the table for more then thirty minutes I picked them up and put the next player in, Cambodian or otherwise. I admit that I wasn't able to clean everything up but the bongs were repeatedly warned about collusion, soft playing and about any other antics that were generally viewed as angle shooting. I'd like to say at this point that many of them were really great about the whole thing. I reasoned with them that if such behaviour were to continue that foreigners would stop coming and they would just have each other to play with. Many of them listened and I have a great deal of affection for them to this day. As for the ones who could not be reasoned with, some of them would go on to be shareholders in the new room.

I admit that the "why" of this entire situation is a bit of speculation on our part. But based on the events I have described thus far, it seemed to us that the disgruntled staff and players got into the ear of the original owner to open up the new room. It always did puzzle us as to why he would do this. He certainly doesn't need the money and he had grown quite disinterested with poker at the end of his tenure at original Riverking. We surmised that he would open up this new room and be involved to give it some momentum, only to quietly slip out at a later time. In fact, as of the time of this writing I'm told he's not even in the country. We certainly don't think any of the threats or the impetus for any of these events originate with him. We all considered this sort of dealings to be quite uncharacteristic of him.

So these are the events that led to the opening of RK1. From here it all just got really ugly, leading to my resignation and the eventual exit of the owner. Anyone who was present for these events knows this account is accurate and beyond contestation.

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Sry to hear this but I can't help but chucked having deal with a fair share of local/Asian guys within vietnam. They don't give a shi.t about what fair or rational. It such a weird dynamic with gambling where everyone just try to gain an edge there no line draw on what illegal or not ex. you have a group of owner trying to screw/cheat each other. Also after reading you trying to make sense of it. Don't waste your time it how the culture are in Asia. FYI I am Vietnamese-american and for my whole stay(7 years) in Vietnam I realize I couldn't trust one local dude.

Actually to be fair I done some screwing up the local/singapore guys myself but nothing serious just totally ignore them mid way on "planning" deals together. I just pretend they don't exist and don't reply/left without warning. It really hard trying to be nice because you going to keep getting suck in to there "plans" that make no sense.

Last edited by DonJuan; 07-22-2018 at 12:31 PM.
Living in Cambodia and turning Pro Quote
07-22-2018 , 04:28 PM
I just gave a rake reduction in a four handed game at 3:30 AM. When asked why by Renton I replied because it's the right thing to do. He then turns to me and says, "That's why you'll fail here." Always great to have the support of your friends.

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Living in Cambodia and turning Pro Quote
07-23-2018 , 12:43 PM
Good job pt, I think you're on the right track. You did an excellent job already in PP, just unlucky with the situation with the copycat room. Before that you were holding your own whereas the high rake Nagaworld significantly decreased in volume over time (granted high rake is surely not the only issue at Nagaworld). I don't know of any place where poker really thrives in a high rake environment, all the people going broke too fast is never good.

Just do your thing, hope you are successful
Living in Cambodia and turning Pro Quote
07-23-2018 , 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FWWM
Good job pt, I think you're on the right track. You did an excellent job already in PP, just unlucky with the situation with the copycat room. Before that you were holding your own whereas the high rake Nagaworld significantly decreased in volume over time (granted high rake is surely not the only issue at Nagaworld). I don't know of any place where poker really thrives in a high rake environment, all the people going broke too fast is never good.

Just do your thing, hope you are successful
Thank you for the encouraging words. What I'll have to do is just announce that we'll cap the rake at $5 on $2-$5 and $5-$10 and just hope that a game develops. I'll certainly market it and all that, but this whole thing with the various groups here is something I still can't wrap my head around. They almost work like junkets, something that I always thought would not apply to poker all that well. I spoke to a $2-$5 player last night in the hopes of getting the word out about my idea. But he actually told me it would be better if I capped the rake at $30 and instead offered airline tickets and hotel rooms. I don't understand the benefit of giving anything away if I'm spreading a game with such high rake. It's almost as if poker is being turned into a house game as the paradigm the room operators are using to attract customers appears similar to that of the casinos.

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Living in Cambodia and turning Pro Quote
07-23-2018 , 01:30 PM
That is exactly what is happening.
Living in Cambodia and turning Pro Quote
07-23-2018 , 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluegrassplayer
That is exactly what is happening.
It explains why some of the Chinese are jumping down in stakes, our $1-$2 game being a beneficiary. Too much money is coming off of the higher games.

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Living in Cambodia and turning Pro Quote
07-23-2018 , 01:46 PM
What is the rake at River King 1?
Living in Cambodia and turning Pro Quote
07-23-2018 , 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ihooper88
What is the rake at River King 1?
I'm pretty sure it's this for their smaller games.

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Living in Cambodia and turning Pro Quote
07-23-2018 , 02:35 PM
Chinese are constantly moving down because the whales higher up go busto too quickly, and they don't understand rake. Chinese have no idea how to create a healthy poker economy, and just go for skinning the sheep instead of shearing it every time. Every game I've seen is based around getting as much money as quickly as possible.

It might be that this is the smart way for game runners. The whales are attracted to the big numbers and swings, so if a game runner tries to make a healthy poker game, the whales could just move to another high rake game where they can get their gambling fix in.


Kind of a funny story, I was playing a 8/15 USD game with a max rake of something like 150. Awful rake obviously, but it was beatable because literally everyone at the table was clueless and it was a minimum 300bb buy in. After a few hours the guys start talking about who is up and who is down. Literally everyone at the table was down except for me and I was up about 3k. The guys threw a fit about me playing differently, and it not being fair. I asked them how much they were down collectively and it was something like 20k. I asked where the **** they thought the other money went, and even after I explained it was to the rake they still kicked me out of the game.
Living in Cambodia and turning Pro Quote
07-23-2018 , 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ihooper88
What is the rake at River King 1?






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Living in Cambodia and turning Pro Quote
07-23-2018 , 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by poker_triad
I'm pretty sure it's this for their smaller games.

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Sup Mike! Congrats, on your new born. Looks exactly like you. Hope all is well. Good luck!


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Living in Cambodia and turning Pro Quote
07-24-2018 , 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluegrassplayer
Kind of a funny story, I was playing a 8/15 USD game with a max rake of something like 150. Awful rake obviously, but it was beatable because literally everyone at the table was clueless and it was a minimum 300bb buy in. After a few hours the guys start talking about who is up and who is down. Literally everyone at the table was down except for me and I was up about 3k. The guys threw a fit about me playing differently, and it not being fair. I asked them how much they were down collectively and it was something like 20k. I asked where the **** they thought the other money went, and even after I explained it was to the rake they still kicked me out of the game.
The dilemma is that for them to understand rake, that means they would have to understand that it's supposed to be a beatable game. But with that comes the knowledge that they are not beating it, equitable rake or otherwise. I think the other rooms in town are perfectly content running their games like a casino would run house games. Honestly it's not something I could do even if I knew how.

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Living in Cambodia and turning Pro Quote
07-25-2018 , 02:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluegrassplayer
Chinese are constantly moving down because the whales higher up go busto too quickly, and they don't understand rake. Chinese have no idea how to create a healthy poker economy, and just go for skinning the sheep instead of shearing it every time. Every game I've seen is based around getting as much money as quickly as possible.

It might be that this is the smart way for game runners. The whales are attracted to the big numbers and swings, so if a game runner tries to make a healthy poker game, the whales could just move to another high rake game where they can get their gambling fix in.


Kind of a funny story, I was playing a 8/15 USD game with a max rake of something like 150. Awful rake obviously, but it was beatable because literally everyone at the table was clueless and it was a minimum 300bb buy in. After a few hours the guys start talking about who is up and who is down. Literally everyone at the table was down except for me and I was up about 3k. The guys threw a fit about me playing differently, and it not being fair. I asked them how much they were down collectively and it was something like 20k. I asked where the **** they thought the other money went, and even after I explained it was to the rake they still kicked me out of the game.
asians are generally lousy gamblers whether poker or investing.
Living in Cambodia and turning Pro Quote
07-25-2018 , 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lol69
asians are generally lousy gamblers whether poker or investing.
That is not racist.
Living in Cambodia and turning Pro Quote
07-25-2018 , 11:02 PM
it's an observation having spent a lot of time around casinos and observing where/when Asians (especially Chinese) invest.
Living in Cambodia and turning Pro Quote
07-26-2018 , 12:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lol69
it's an observation having spent a lot of time around casinos and observing where/when Asians (especially Chinese) invest.
Seems legit.
I mean besides those Asians, casinos are where I get all my investment advice
Living in Cambodia and turning Pro Quote
07-26-2018 , 12:46 AM
if i see a 23 year old white guy with hoodie and headphones he either can play poker or has played enough to know the game at a competitive enough level.

i don't think i've ever felt that way when an asian guy sits at the table.

not too many play tight-aggressive. they are call happy in general. can't resist a spite call or crying call. never fold a draw.

i'm making assumptions i know, but that's what you're doing at a poker table. no time to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

just compare any asian casino to vegas. they're mad gamblers in asia.
Living in Cambodia and turning Pro Quote
07-26-2018 , 01:16 AM
Gotta agree with my boy 69 here, anyone who doesnt is trying pretty hard
Living in Cambodia and turning Pro Quote
07-26-2018 , 02:26 AM
recommended internet, mobile or landline. quality compared to the phils?
Living in Cambodia and turning Pro Quote
07-26-2018 , 03:17 AM
Depends on where you want to stay.. Phnom Penh works fine with mobile internet only, but sihanoukville you definitely need landline for reliable internet

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Living in Cambodia and turning Pro Quote
07-26-2018 , 03:36 AM
just in pp best landline and mobile backup companies. im mtt player
Living in Cambodia and turning Pro Quote
07-26-2018 , 03:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coinflipper
just in pp best landline and mobile backup companies. im mtt player
Go with Opennet or Metfone for landline in Phnom Penh. I've heard some swear by Metfone but I prefer Opennet and have never had an issue with them in my home. For mobile go with Cellcard as I always get 4G+ reception on my phone whereas only 4G with Smart. But most phones in Cambodia are dual SIM so you'll have the opportunity to use both, as I do. Also be sure to get a regular SIM card and not a travelers card. On the latter you're restricted on what type of packages you can get. I pay $8 per month on Cellcard for 80gb of data and $8 on Smart for 40gb more. You can't get either package on a travelers SIM.

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Living in Cambodia and turning Pro Quote

      
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