lol 5%. I wish. 10% up to 15,000krw which is ~15usd.

There are a few other games around, not always running, and you will find similar rake structures.

Country - Bangkok, Thailand
Firsthand Experience? - Lived here for 2 years

Cost of Living - 9 - very cheap. Taxis start at $1, massages for $5 an hour, street food for under $1, restaurant meal under $10, accommodation is very cheap too and if you stay further from the centre can get a nice apartment for under $150 a month. A 1 bedroom apartment in what is considered the best area to live (Thonglor) surrounded by lots of restaurants and night life costs me $800 a month

Nightlife - 9 - can go out every night of the week no problem, easy to get girls, lots of restaurants

How Scary - 2 - not scary at all. Police are corrupt but they rarely bother foreigners, I've been stopped once by the police in a taxi at a checkpoint in 2 years. Most of the time they slow the taxi down, have a look in see that you are white and wave the taxi on. Motorbikes are probably the most dangerous, but you can easily avoid using them by taking skytrain/underground or taxis.

Poker Playing - 7 - no live play (but Macau/Singapore is only a short plane trip), but playing/betting online is not illegal for sites based outside of Thailand. I've gambled in public with other 2p2ers probably as much as anyone else and never been told to not do it

How Easy to Get There and Stay There? - 8 - getting here is easy as Bangkok is a main transit hub to much of Asia. Easy to stay here indefinitely but involves leaving Thailand every 60/90 days or visiting immigration every 90 days

if anyone from the UK is thinking of doing one, that would be helpful to me. specifically london, leeds, bristol or manchester

if u rate bkk being a 2 on "how scary", how much would u give to countries like sweden, switzerland, canada, finland... france, germany, england... spain, portugal, greece... uruguay, chile.. ?

South Korea (non-big city)

Firsthand Experience: Taught in South Korea for one year.

Cost of Living: 8 - Some stuff was absurdly cheap such as vegetables and rice. You can feed a large group of foreigners on a very small price. Plus, appetizers (kimchi, cucumbers etc) are generally free. Foreigner bars and western restaurants are quite costly though and dairy products are worth a pretty penny. However, I often ate off of about 8,000W/day with no problem. Electric bills were pretty cheap for my apartment. Probably about 30,000W. Internet around the same price on a monthly basis. Healthcare is also very cheap. Had a 5-night hospital stay and paid 300,000W (give or take $300).

Nightlife: 4 - Pretty awful in the small cities (population <1M). Drinking and karaoke gets boring fast. Got some expensive foreigner joints, but not a whole lot of live music outside of places like Seoul and Busan. Thankfully, SK is a small country and public transportation is cheap and efficient. So, making a trip to a big city is rarely a difficult task.

How Scary: 9 - I would often go on long walks in the middle of the night along poorly lit roads if I had trouble sleeping. People will stare and may make snide remarks in Korean, but it's a lot of fluff. Most of them are pretty cool. Some people might get pissed if you have a Korean girlfriend, but if you got any muscle they'll **** off. Police are lazy and really don't give a **** unless it's a major violent crime. Don't get sick as Korean hospitals outside of cities are poorly kept and contain almost archaic medical practices.

Poker Playing: 1 - Walker Hill in Seoul is the only places that provide poker and it's normally 1 or 2 tables of NL Hold'em with an absurdly high rake. Outside of the big cities, you'll have expat home games but they rarely play seriously and quite frankly downright ******ed poker.

Easy to Get There: 4 - Used to be a cakewalk. Now the visa laws are tighter than a duck's ass. Takes over 3 months to get the paperwork for an E2 visa and then you need to hope that a decent job comes along for it. Tourist visas are easy to obtain but making a living as a foreigner there is almost impossible unless you get a uni job, are bilingual or marry a Korean woman. It is impossible to get actual citizenship there if you are a foreigner. You can apply for a Permanent Resident visa and can get one based on passing a Korean test, having a stable job, having a wife, going through some social integration program and some other things. Gyopos (foreign born Koreans) can get a special visa as well.

-------------

In short if you're going to live in SK and have a hard-on for a good nightlife, stick to Seoul or Busan and visit the other places. You might spend more, but it may be worth it for you.

Can't really comment on most of them as I've not been to most of them. Have you been to Bangkok? I can't think of many things scary about Bangkok and am sure the people who live there would say the same sans ladyboys.

I think most countries/cities in the world seem much scarier until you go there.

USA is a country. Asia,Africa and Europe are continents. And no it's not at all like your different states, you may think you have nothing in common with somebody from Iowa if you are from Los Angeles or something like that but I can assure you that you have tons more in common that say Finns and Italians or Swedes and Greek, who all come from Europe.Even if your ethnicity is different there, you still have a common backbone of being American which shows in everything. Nations in different continents don't in many cases really share anything at all.

Your generalisations are just so funny. Dude you have lines like Asia: "Very safe", lol. I would probably find some differences between Afganistan/Iraq and Singapore.

Goddamn Americans.

Annnnnnnnd /politarding

aren't you all blond in finland?

hmm argentina and thailand seem like the nuts from reading these. awesome thread.

That's why they're generalizations, just like every other post in this thread. If you want, you can also start arguments with every other poster here and tell them that they can't just summarily describe Brazil in X way because it's a huge area and there are vast differences and then you can complain that it also depends on the neighborhood and they can't describe life in X city a particular way.

If you need it spelled out for you that "Asia" usually doesn't mean Afghanistan and Iraq for most people, and "Africa" usually doesn't mean Canary Islands and Seychelles, then this ideas thread probably isn't for you.

I've always said they should split up the continent of Asia its too big! Make the middle east its own continent and call it Towelheadia.

guys keep the flaming under control, jesus. criticisms and comments on notes are fine, but keep the idiocy down.

Haha, epic stuff - thanks for letting us all know what you consider parts of Asia and what not I could start going on about the notion of "most people" and your perspective (how global your US-view is) and so many other things here, but I give up, this is a lost battle.

I can't wait to read more of your in-depth country analyses.

PS. I don't want to flame, Orange, but come on... Those posts.Also Im sorry for the off-topic in this great thread, wasn't my intention but couldn't help myself.

it better not, with them being part of spain and all.

There were already a lot of posts deleted from this thread due to a hijack to argue about this, but in response to your question, things like this don't happen in many countries:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/ar...s-Bangkok.html

a month later:

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-update4-.html

Protest and riots are seen in most countries around the world and just like in Bangkok the risks to the actual people (tourists especially) there are much lower than the media portrays. In the news they only show the affected areas with the most dramatic shots. I was in Bangkok for the whole of the protests last year and never felt unsafe for a moment of it. They were peaceful for the most part with all the deaths occurring in isolated areas where the actual protesters gathered and came with the army pre-warning of there actions. I regularly had my parents telling me about the riots they had seen on the news from the UK and had to assure them that the area I was in (1.5km from main riots) was perfectly safe and I had not even seen a protester that day.

Ditto for me and Korea. There were a ton of riots in Seoul (not usually overtly violent like the ones in BKK but riots nonetheless) and I usually had no idea they were going on.

You have to be a bit of a fool to get caught up in riots. Even in the worst of situations the solution: stay inside until it's over... seems to work just fine I would bet.

Anyway, this thread is completely off topic. We're not here to entertain xenophobia, simply to share our experiences having lived abroad in an organized fashion. Let's have some more of that please.

Country/City - Berlin, Germany
Firsthand Experience? - Yes

Cost of Living - 5 - It is surprisingly cheap for a Western European capital and rents are way cheaper than London, Paris, Amsterdam, Barcelona. The sublet market is pretty huge and you can find a small one bedroom apartment in an interesting area for 400-500 euros a month including bills with no problem. If you wanted to check it out and see if you liked it, then it would be quite easy to stay in a hostel for a few days and then find yourself a sublet for a month or two.

Recreation - 10 - Berlin has something for everyone. It is a truly international city. Artists, musicians and so on tend to move to Berlin for the cheaper rents and great music and art scene. There are lot of parks and greenery closeby, you can play many sports and there are lots of different cafes and restaurants. Loads of touring bands come through Berlin. Manysquats have interesting bars and events. Mexican food sucks here though! 24 hour public transit at weekends.

How Scary - 8 - I'd say relatively safe. Some of the eastern districts, Lichtenberg, Marzahn, can be pretty rough and some of the Turkish areas a little sketchy. there is the standard big city stuff, but if you are sensible then hopefully you won't have a problem.

Poker Playing - 8 - The are few casinos to play live and they are soft, but the rake is quite high. Internet is of course top notch. Online poker is legal here and the governement seems to not try too hard to tax it, but if ou become visible then you will likely need to play taxes. There is an EPT here in the spring. Easy to get to other live stuff in Europe.

How Easy to Get There and Stay There? - 8 - For a European capital, the two airports are very small and there are not many direct routes out of Europe so you often need to go via somewhere like Frankfurt or Amsterdam. Berlin is in a very central European position and trains are very efficient, so it is easy to get around Europe that way - plus there are a lot of budget airlines like Germany Wings and Easyjet that have hubs here.

EU citizens can of course stay here. You are supposed to register with the police but I never have.

Non EU citizens may find it a little easier to sta than, let's say somewhere like the UK. It is often possible to get an extended visa if you are doing a language class or something like that. You may need to open a German bank account, get health insurance or translate documents into German - You are somewhat at the mercy of German beaurocracy and it depends on your table draw - which visa officer deals with your case. And Germans like beurocracy.

NOTE - This is for Berlin and not Germany as a whole. Other parts of Germany are generally a bit more expensive (apart from the east).

Country/City - Tokyo, Japan
Firsthand Experience? - Yes

Cost of Living - 1 - One of the most expensive cities in the world. There are cheaper places to live or hang out in the city, but you can easily burn through a lot of cash quickly. Sometimes harder for a foreigner (gaijin) to find an apartment. Also often have to give landlord one or two months rent as 'key money' to get your own apartment. Fish is super cheap and delicious. Fruit vegetables and beer is quite expensive.

Recreation - 10 - It is a crazy amazing city and I feel like you could do almost anything here. Restaurants, clubs, bars, live music, eight story arcades. Going out can cost serious money though depending on what you want to do. Things you will see and experience nowhere else in the world.

How Scary - 10 - Must be one of the safest capitals in the world. Police spend more time giving directions than fighting crime. Walking around at any hour is fine. I was in one of the 'roughest' districts of the city and it was completely placid and fine, just a bit scruffy.

Poker Playing - 3 - Internet is obviously stable and poker is legal. No live poker to speak of apart from a few home games. What live poker there is will be hard to find and possibly have some yazuka control.

How Easy to Get There and Stay There? - 3 - Flights are generally expensive to pretty much anywhere. Deals are possible but it isn't as yet in the circuit of the budget asian airlines.

Washigton, DC, USA - but thoughts on USA in general.
Firsthand Experience? - Yes

Cost of Living - 8 - USA is the World leader in cheap stuff. Rents in premier cities are very roughly 1/2 of Western Europe premier cities. It is very easy to find and lease a place. Hotels are similarly cheaper. The most expensive city in the USA is NYC, and rents are substantially cheaper than London. (Last I looked around it was about 1/2)

If you want to live in smaller city, or right outside of the smaller city, you will be amazed how cheap it can be. 35 miles outside of Washington, DC you can _buy_ a townhouse for 100-150K USD in a regular neighborhood (not ghetto.) Smaller cities can be even cheaper, and college towns are quite lively. I'm sure you all make 200K from poker, so you are not looking at more budget areas, but for some this may be a great place. Vegas would be considered a famous but secondary/tourist city where things are very cheap once you start to get away from the Strip.

All the goods are cheap. If you want toys, this is probably the best place to be in the World. You can buy your motorcycle, two cars (one for fun, one for business, obviously), wave-runner, small boat and you don't have to be baller like in W Europe. These items are often 1/2 the price of Europe because you guys get screwed by your governments with all the fees, taxes, and duties. Additionally, you can run all your stuff on much cheaper fuel.

Services are generally also cheaper than in Europe, with few exceptions.

A semi-decent rule of thumb is that whatever costs 1 pound in UK will cost you 1 dollar in the US.


Recreation - 10 - Excellent, but depends on the size of the city. The bigger the city, the more random amenities you have. In DC, you have 100 museums, but also things like Trapeze lessons, top notch Brazilian Jiu Jitsu schools, motorcycle racetracks near by, gun ranges, Chesapeake Bay for boating/etc. Chances are that if you are really into something, you will find the facilities and a local group to pursue that hobby. For example, there are pretty good amateur soccer leagues here. Or if you want, you can just play in pretty decent pickup games on the Mall, right next to the White House gate with a Washington Monument backdrop.

How Scary - 4 - In general, you have two types of 'hoods' in the USA. First is your streotypical Black urban hood (that also includes Hispanics). Second, you have trailer park poor white people 'hood'. You probably won't see the second type unless you explore rural areas and really small towns.

In DC, you have the first type. The worst part of DC is separated by the river and there is nothing to see there. It is highly unlikely you will end up there and most people that have lived here all their life have never been there. But even if you do go there, as long as you don't decide to park yourself on the curb all day or start walking around after dark through small dark alleys for some reason, you will be fine. Just drive away.

At the same time, in many areas of town you can stumble around drunk at all hours and you will be fine. Ever since 9/11, security in DC is just increasing by the day. The areas with entertainment venues/bars/clubs are reasonably safe and you will not feel any danger.

The safest areas of DC are probably as safe as central London. But I rated DC and US as a 4 because there are _pockets_ of extreme poverty where there is a lot more danger.

Poker Playing - 7 - I have never played on the Euro sites so I don't know if they games are better. People say they are not and the traffic sucks, so I can't compare. But if you are Euro, you already can play those sites from US via proxy so it is not a concern. If you want to play live, there are increasingly many jurisdictions that are allowing casinos. Around DC, Charlestown is about 1-2 hours away, Delaware is about 2 hours away, Philadelphia is about 3 hours away, and Atlantic City is about 4 hours away - they all have very respectable card rooms unless you play higher than 5/10 NL.

Legal considerations - 9 - If you make it in, you are treated fairly. Stores will not charge you more because you are a foreigner. Cops will not stop you expecting bribes because you are a foreigner. If you get into an accident, cops and everyone else will not immediately put you at fault and expect you to pay up. You will never bribe a cop here. People are generally not poor and desperate and you will not be seen as a particularly juicy and easy target by the criminal element. If you are here legally and speak English well, you can get a well paying regular job if you so desire. Level of discrimination is very low and people are very self-conscious about it. Corruption is very low. (In my experience, I think it might be lower than UK) You can obtain permanent residency in the US and even Citizenship. In many other countries, like Thailand, they can basically thrown you out whenever they wish and you have to report to their government office on regular basis - and they will never treat you like a Thai and you will never be able to own land, etc.

How Easy to Get There and Stay There? - 4 - Way too many people want to come to the US. Consequently, US is not easy to expatriate to, particularly if you are poor, and have no marketable skills. It is also a long process. If you are Euro, your chances are substantially better. You probably want to start with a 6 month visa which is supposedly not hard to get. The people I know that moved to the US permanently usually had good credentials (engineers, researchers, etc.) I would start with a 6 month visa and go from there. Or start with Edu visa and then work on getting permanent status.

I'm writing this up from the Euro guys mostly. You don't have to move to developing countries to get benefits that might already exist in a developed country.

Country - Bangkok, Thailand
Firsthand Experience? - only lived here 4 months, and that included a lot of traveling around the country

Cost of Living - 6 - daily life can be cheap. Taxis, street food, and apartments in less desirable areas are cheap.

In general, services are cheap. You have a ton of women giving massages, with cheap 'extras' if you want. You can hire a driver cheap if you have a car. Your maid will be cheap (which adds a lot to your quality of life.) I guess this is also why real estate built with Burmese labor is also pretty inexpensive.

In General, goods are expensive and often very expensive. If you want an Iphone, electronics, car, regular brand name clothes, real motorcycle - not a scooter, etc - just about everything will cost you a lot more than in USA. Eating $1 BBQ chicken from a road side is cool, but eventually you will want more.

Nightlife - 5 - BKK nightlife reputation is built on hookers. That is what people who talk about 'nightlife' in Thailand usually mean. Ridiculously early closing hours. Many venues that seem legit actually hire pretty girls to talk to guys who come to their establishment and pretend to to work there and this way guys come back next time.

There are some interesting restaurants but they are not cheap. If they are in a nice building, nice tables, regular servers - basically what you would expect from a Western restaurant - you will get Western prices as well. Plenty of places charging $30/plate and $7/drink. Western food, steak, lobster, sushi, are often more expensive than in the USA.

"Nightlife" is a debate that keeps the 1000 page Thailand thread going. Are girls in Thailand easy? The answer is that you will have no problem hooking up with a poor, uneducated, farm girl. And they _are_ nice girls. Nothing wrong with that. But if you go after someone who has the same social standing as you - ie: they are not desperate - they will be harder to get than in the West. There is a social stigma for girls from decent families to be seen with Westerners. Thailand is a very socially conservative country that tolerates tourists and their hookers and semi-hookers.

How Scary - 3 - Not scary at all. I think I've traveled a decent amount and in my experience Thailand ranks as one of the top _developing_ countries in this respect. I've never been to the Nordic euro countries and they might be better, but Thailand is acceptably great.

In touristy spots, you will get some husslers. But they generally try to cheat you out of your money via some random scheme. That is a lot better than being surrounded by guys with knives or guns demanding money. (I've had the pleasure of experiencing all three situations.)

I've traveled around a lot around Thailand and it is still mostly an agrarian society that doesn't really have urban ghettos that are the typical problem areas. You can generally walk around after dark pretty much everywhere in the country. Even in the Deep South border conflict areas it is fine for tourists. It's more of a Thai - vs - Locals problem and neither side is targeting tourists for attacks.

I'm sure you've all read the Bangkok protest stories and took a look at all the great pictures. Do you know why there are so many great stories and pictures of this conflict? For the same reason why there are almost NO pictures/videos/first-hand stories of Somali conflict - The reason is that if a reporter or photographer tried to go to those conflict areas in Somalia they would be shot or taken hostage. It is a violent, territorial dispute. But in Bangkok, half the damn tourists took a stroll to the protest areas to take pictures by the silly tire and bamboo barricades (both of which are all show and no go.) In the greater geopolitical sense, this is an important internal struggle for the Thais. There may be a coup - Thailand has coups every few years - there will be more government buildings set ablaze, but it has nothing to do with you. Your favorite bar may get shot down for a week. Your favorite mall may get burned down. But this stuff is a practical inconvenience - not a substantial danger to your health. If you are worried about your safety, don't ride scooters. Scooters are by far the biggest source of injuries and fatalities for foreigners in Thailand and that is a fact.

Corruption/governance 2-8 - This is all over the place. If you have money, you can generally buy yourself out of any trouble. Even murder. It will not be cheap by any means, but it is possible. If you get pulled over for some violation, it is an easy and very cheap bribe. No problem. They are also not too greedy: you can give them $3 (yes, three dollars) for most violations and they won't even check if you have a driver's license or registration. It is not like some of the bribes I paid in Mexico and Southernish/East-Central Africa where even after bargaining hard I couldn't walk away for less than $50-$100.

The thing is, you will also be a bit of a target. Even if you are not doing something wrong, you may be pulled over by the cops. Or you may be in a crowd of Thais doing the same thing but they will pick on you and only you to extract a bribe from you.

If you get in an accident, it is your fault. End of story. If someone gets hurt or dies even if it was ******edly their fault, expect to pay a lot of money as compensation. ($X,XXX to low XX,XXX) That can really screw you up.

God help you if you are in any sort of altercation with a Thai that is richer than you. And believe me, there are many rich Thais in Bangkok.

So corruption can be very convenient and practical on a daily basis. Awesome, even. But they can really screw up your life, too.

Poker Playing - 7 - Internet only. Gambling is illegal and you are looking for substantial trouble if you don't keep a low profile in this respect. Gambling and drugs are the two biggest pet peeves of Thai government.

How Easy to Get There and Stay There? - 5 - Flights from EU/USA are neither cheap nor convenient. It is a pain to get to BKK.

There are several ways to stay in Thailand for longer periods, but they are semi-sketchy. You are always under the eye of Immigration. And every few years, they are tightening the noose. As a foreigner, you can forget about getting a good regular job, and actually owning a house is semi-sketchy as well.

Basically, you will never have permission to stay there indefinitely. Your permission is reviewed regularly and it can be canceled as they wish, and you have a very short period of time to leave the country. You will never get permanent residency status - not to even mention Citizenship. You are tolerated because you have some money. Life will be super-though for you if you run out of money. Very little social net for you.

Conclusion 7 - Thailand is a good place to go to for a semi-short period of time and live a carefree lifestyle. It is cheap when you are there for a short period of time. But if you plan to stay longer and have a typical life - wife/kids/car/kid education/etc - you better make sure you make some serious cash. Serious.

^^^ Spot on

I might do a Pattaya specific one if I get time, apart from one or two on here that live there, I'm guessing I have the most experience to share about the place.........

I disagree with the EU part. I understand that there are very limited direct flights from the US to Bangkok but from Europe there are several direct flights from most (if not all) european countries daily to bangkok. flights time is 9-12 hours if you choose a direct flight

cheap is obv a relative term. promotional return fares from europe are 500-600 euros (~$650-800)

compared to americans I think us euros have it pretty well imo

Fair enough. From East Coast US, the cheapest you can generally get is around 1200 USD. Sometimes there may be sales and promos, but they are usually for crappy dates, limited availability, and long transit times (weird connections). West Coast is a bit easier. Europe seems to be around 1000USD, which is still expensive in my book. Of course it is basically a flight to the other side of the world (12 hour difference) so it may be good value, but expensive nevertheless.

Anyway, the point is that it's not like me hopping on a cheap flight to Colombia where I can get on a plane at 9am, and be having lunch there. Relatively speaking, Thailand is towards the 'long/expensive' side of the bell curve.