Amen brother Amen. That's what SWF will never understand.

You're way off base here.

I totally realize that it's not an option for most poker players to get a good job returning to the normal workforce.

I look at resumes all the time, and if you are in your late 30s, with an enormous gap or complete void in your work history, you're probably not going to rate even a first interview.

This can be mitigated by having some extremely relevant/specific job skills though, so it's not hopeless, but agreed it is an uphill battle.

Generally though, poker players wouldn't even try, they have become too lazy, are used to the easy money and hard work is unthinkable, and as people put it ... they are used to being their "own boss". That's why so many poker players are scammers, they don't have the capacity for real work after they fail. If an entrepreneur fails in his business and has no capital, he finds a regular job, he usually doesn't try and scam everybody around him to chase his "dream" another year more.

That being said, if you are making more money playing poker than working a normal job, then good for you. However, if you are making peanuts at poker and living a life where you fret and whine about a dollar or two, then you are probably fooling yourself that you can't find a better job back home, it's just that you are lazy and don't have the capacity for the hard effort it'll take to do it.

What don't I understand? Different people have different priorities? Can't put a price on happiness?

No, I get that.

That it's pointless to try and change K2D's degen ways?

I think you misunderstand me if you think that's what I'm trying to do.

I'm just being a rude ass to him in exactly the same way he jabs me for having a suit made in Hong Kong.

I'm telling him how screwed up his life is. He knows it inside, but he won't ever admit it. If I were him, I wouldn't either. Denial is the best security blanket possible.

As he puts it ... he's kinda living like a lion, and his life is almost exactly the one he wants.

Now he's admitted that he doesn't think of the future, and that he's perfectly willing to commit suicide in the future if his life choices here don't pan out too well.

I wonder how many avid followers of lifestyle would go down that route if they realized their "idol" has that kind of backup plan.


I've known enough degen busto poker players to know that trying to change their mind is a hopeless and thankless task. They have to cling to the dream, because that's all that remains of their life, there's nothing else left.

I mean, let's look at it .. what does a typical relocated busto poker player have?

1) No family (because they think he's a degen gambler who's in Thailand(eg) to have cheap sex with hookers (sorry man, that's what parents think)
2) No real friends (they left any they had behind, and the new ones don't even speak the same language or have the same cultural values)
3) No money (worry about every dollar they spend and typically live on the edge of beggardom)
4) No future (poker is certainly not getting easier. I don't agree that there's no money in poker, but it isn't 2006)

So all they have is the dream.

That's why most people on 2+2 mindlessly egg on other would-be poker players, because they are all in pursuit of the dream, and damn any who don't agree!

Cliffs:

I don't care about K2D to try and change his life or mentality.

I post what I do to remind him of his pathetic existence (which he knows is true deep down inside)

Hopefully people will read this and don't rush blindly onto a bleak existence and future.

I'm not against poker players, I'm against egging people on without preparing them for the tough reality and needed backup plans that comes with relocating to the Philippines to play poker.

Internet crusading is apparently serious business. I'll show myself out.

Sorry, but having the local language is still a plus even if you are applying to be a janitor.

Of course, your superior skills at mopping floors will be more important.

And you are correct, English was not my first language, but it has been my primary language since I was 6.

poker is all but dead as a viable way to make a living. the elite make money, and even then many of the "elite" players are simply running way above expectation lifetime.

trying to make a living at poker 10 years ago was understandable. there was easy money to be made, many recreational players looking to dump money, it seemed to have massive growth potential, poker was "cool", everyone had home games going.

poker in 2015 has none of those things. the writing was on the wall for online poker 4-5 years ago.

if you have the chance to get out of poker, take it. you should have been trying to get out 5 years ago.

lol @ the last two pages


apparently i got 5 std's over the past year... who knew?


good cliffs by pooter except i dont really have a disease anymore i just have uncertainty, and dont want to spend my time working hard for a future that might not be there, or create relationships/start a family that might make things harder if ish goes bad

but in saltys mind i should still go back to the US and work hard to get some fat bossy wife so that i can maybe re-do the hardwood floors for her to get laid and then maybe get a bj on my birthday if she is in the right mood

ya that sounds like a much better use of my time

uhhh no?

Since you posted it publicly, I assume everybody knows you caught at least 5 cases of UTI via unprotected sexual activity in a single year.

If you somehow caught so many UTIs via non sexual transmission, I apologize, but I'd then suggest you report this to a doctor immediately since it'll probably be a new medical discovery.

Sounds like you live life like the people who thought the whole would end in 2012 and gave up all their possessions in exchange for blessings in the afterlife. Good decisions.

Truthfully, if that's all the expectations you have for yourself in the West (but in saltys mind i should still go back to the US and work hard to get some fat bossy wife so that i can maybe re-do the hardwood floors for her to get laid and then maybe get a bj on my birthday if she is in the right mood) ...

Then you must be a real loser, and I feel sorry for you. I apologize.

We may both live in glass houses, but yours are sadly thinner the 0.01 condoms you don't use.

Leave me alone, and I'll extend the same courtesy. I've done it twice before and kept my side, you haven't.

you do realize that is the fate of the majority of men in the western world right?

I have a regular income, but it's not enough to live a comfortable life in Australia, which is the 3rd most expensive country in the world after Norway and Switzerland.It really makes no sense for me to live in Australia when I could live somewhere with 1/5th the cost of living.

would rather live on 600 a month in asia than 16000 in the UK

any less or more than that on either side then it'd swing it

physics grad from no. 2 uni in the world by 2014 rankings (imperial), friends at uni became investment bankers making >$10k/mo so let's assume that could've been me

bear in mind i live here for 360/mo after all bills, internet and gym, which i'm in 6hrs/week http://imgur.com/a/cAzS4

near fluent in spoken and written thai, but still spend most of my time in my room reading forums or banging dating site girls without condoms are my top 2 favorite activities, don't really interact with society

people back home spend all their time working to afford a life they don't have time to live because they spend all their time working (to paraphrase alan watts)

don't intend to have 2.4 children or mortgage a house with a white picket fence so why do i need to earn by SWF's example 5k, spend 2k and bank 3k. what would i be saving for

although i'd need a lot more than 2k in london, which is where im from. 2k would be out in the sticks. so my choices are expensive or boring. would rather bangkok which is cheap and interesting

pension, who needs that if you don't intend to retire. i work 3 hours a day and it's non physical, and it's something i enjoy (content writing not poker) so why would i ever stop

medical insurance, that's $50/mo or whatever, easy to fit that in

k2d's life isn't socially conventional but it's fine, he doesn't need to save for a white wedding, a nest egg for his kid's college fund, or to get on the property ladder. insurance is cheap. it's easy for any NES to find freelance writing work online

leaving a bedsit in brixton to do that from your condo in asia can be a big step up in life quality. he is transitioning out of poker

me and another 2+2er met k2d, had some beers (k2d nursed a bottle of water), guy seemed like he had his head screwed on just fine. also he's young, travel and questionable life decisions are best made when young

Just playing with you homie.

I agree with these guys living in Asia on a little bit of money much better then living in the states with a house,nice car, and a decent job. Actually most people who have all that stuff in the states are stressed as *** and hate there life and fat wifes anyways.

actually used to live in one, don't have pics but it looked similar to this, $600 after bills and council tax



most expensive place i've lived in bkk, also $600 - http://imgur.com/a/WX16G

reminded me of http://www.theguardian.com/sport/201...on-philippines

Manny Pacquiao is planning to sell his $9m Manila mansion after receiving complaints from neighbours that his visitors are always wearing “just shorts and slippers” and making the neighbourhood look bad.

but guys salty has 10+ years living experience here so we should listen to him


like ive been saying all along salty....... there are probably more guys on this forum that are closer to my mentality than yours, or at least the basic enjoy life not worry about your pension part


you do realize this is a forum for poker players and not a forum for businessman right?


a lot of your advice is good for you but awful for the average person here and puts unrealistic expecations in their head, you were right you didnt say 80k pesos to be comfortable in phils you said 120k........ the average guy on here doesnt need to factor in trips to hong kong to get his dresses hemmed into his budget


so telling someone they need double or more what they actually need is awful advice to the average person reading this thread

**** me, seems like i massively over paid for my place in gramercy looking at those pics jspill and for the price. nice job

the main advantage of thailand > phils is rental prices......... its not even close, i have no clue why phils apartments and even hotels are as expensive as they are, doesnt mesh with the costs of everything else here

On a (separate) Philippines expat forum, we have three lengthy threads on budgets and what it's possible to live on "comfortably." The one thing most of us agree on is that living "comfortably" is different for each person.

Only a couple people that I know of spend 80k on rent. I would honestly rather live in one the cheaper, older houses out among the common people. Of course, different neighborhoods may change my mind.

The total budget for most expats seems to come in around 70k to 90k pesos for those with girlfriends/married. Single persons generally spend between 45k and 70k pesos.

I think the main (financial) difference between expats on the other forum and those on this forum are that nearly all of them have either a savings or substantial pension (or both) and a life plan.

^This. I rarely order any drinks at a restaurant, even when someone else is paying. If I won the lottery, my eating habits wouldn't change much.

I can get a satisfying meal for about 300p in Ayala Mall. If I added drinks, yes the price would be higher.

SM Mall of Asia has a place I will be frequenting: "Mongolian Rice Bowls By Sweet Inspirations." It's a Mongolian buffet for under 300p (lunch).

There's a good Mongolian buffet in Ayala as well. I think it was 260p when I was there. Don't remember the name, but it's in the new restaurant addition on the third floor.

I ate at Shakey's once. I don't recall what I ordered, but I do remember it was expensive and the meal wasn't great.

Call me the fish this time...I realize that some poker players are lazy by nature, but I assumed most of them faded away after two or three years and didn't hang around as bottom feeders.

Poker is hard work. For one, you need to put in your time at the tables and stay mentally focused. But just as important to success is continual study and improvement. Internet games are SO much tougher than they were in 1999 (Anyone remember Planet Poker endorsed by Mike Caro?).

I've never once been busto, but I also realize that I have been far too conservative with my bankroll.

What percentage of (long-term) players do you personally feel get to and stay in the "scammer" stage?

Great post...though I'd like a little more (not much more) than 600 (euro I assume) per month. If I really needed to, however, I wouldn't mind so much totally roughing it.

Being in the Philippines to me is a permanent vacation. I'm happy without spending much money.

I hate "real" jobs. I've spent two years since 1996 in a couple real jobs. Poker dealer in 2001 and website programming in 1998. I did hold a job supervising an athletic dome in the evenings and weekends from 1997 to 2006 (with the exception of 2001), but it was more play time than a job. ha.

I would hate having to be to a job at 8 in the morning and stay there until 5. The athletic dome job didn't count...I always looked forward to that.

I agree that money isn't everything. However, I'm always working on increasing my income. I will completely revamp my game in 2015. It will be tough, it will take a lot of time, but poker is hard work if you want to succeed...

This is untrue.

Typical media for polarizing spins.

Reason is far more simple, that place costs millions in amortization and rumored to be costing him 300,000 USD/month in upkeep, personnel, and his entourage staying there.

K2D, I don't disagree with you that most of the people on this forum are closer to your life requirements than to mine.

You'd realize I do not give much advice about how to live for the absolute cheapest amounts, because I don't know much about that anymore.

You should stop referring to my 80-120k minimum requirement for a comfortable expat living, because:

1) You are not an expat
2) You are not interested in a comfortable (without daily budget worries) lifestyle

The number I quoted above includes rent, which is a substantial portion of it, and yes the Philippines has insane rental rates, which is why property development is often good business here.

I DID NOT just randomly post that all of you are not living here, but simply taking a long extended vacation. A poster asked how much it would cost to live a comfortable expat life and I answered. Your insecurities at spending much less to survive had to jump all over me when all I did was respond to somebody else's question.

And, you keep referring to the suit in Hong Kong, and you fail to recognize that it was a direct question by a poster, and while not relevant to you or the majority of posters, it was relevant to him. Are you saying I should not answer his question because you're not interested in the answer?

I know you feel this is your thread to post your ridiculous rants and sexcapades, but last I checked, this is for people asking questions about the Philippines, in which you are capable of only answering questions from the majority of living on the edge poker players who hate the West.

Note: I would imagine my English is pretty fluent. You will notice some mistakes in grammar and wording here and there that could be fixed after I post, but in general, I don't like to edit the posts after I hit the button.

You just have to listen to the tenor of the people on this forum to realize that they feel returning to a normal job would be a major blow to their lifestyle, and will do whatever it takes to stay around. It's also undeniable that the vast majority of poker players are long term losers at the game.

Put that together and you have the scummy poker environment of today.

Obviously, I can't put a number to it as I don't know all the poker players in the world.

From the people I know personally from the 2008-beyond era, I would say that a rough breakdown for every 100 people is something like:

1% crushing it for a good living
4% making reasonable progress but not much else
25% living on the edge/negative
10% quit completely
50% playing once in a blue moon

10% consistently busto

Scamming is pretty prevalent from the 10% busto and somewhat from he 20% on the edge group.

As mentioned, I only know 4-5 guys who did really well at the games and still doing more than treading water. I've excluded the always casuals from this list.