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My most interesting main event hand. My most interesting main event hand.

07-12-2012 , 02:43 PM
So I think every street is debatable in this hand. Here's some reads and history:

V1: Typical Old Texan. I've been friendly with him. He's commented a couple of times when I've raised from the SB that he doesn't think I have much but he doesn't have much either and he's folded.

V2: Typical Euro Guy. Looks mid-20s, does dumb unbalanced stuff because he wants to win pots. First or second orbit, I raised with a dead BB, he flatted SB, lead 2/3rd pot on A9dTd, led 40% pot on A turn, checked Qd river and showed 5h6d. He 3-bet me once on the button and checked back K64r, bet a T turn that brought a flush draw and took it down.

Me: I've been the 2nd or 3rd most active player at the table. I overbet once on 345c3c9s and it didn't go to showdown. I also raised turn vs a double barrel on Qh9h3s8c and checked back river on Qx with 9d6d, and won vs AhKh. I also cold flatted a 3-bet from an old man against his open and folded a KJx flop when the old guy bet smallish and I had him behind me. That's about it.

Folds to me on the button, I look down at JdJs and make it 300. V1 flats. V2 makes it 900. I...?

I'll post later streets after some discussion.
07-12-2012 , 02:53 PM
unless stack sizes dictate otherwise, re-raise to 3000 to get info., to try to get AK/AQ to fold, and to find out if you're up against QQ+. Plan to fold if he re-raises you.
07-12-2012 , 03:02 PM
stack size is?
07-12-2012 , 03:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.WeakTight
unless stack sizes dictate otherwise, re-raise to 3000 to get info., to try to get AK/AQ to fold, and to find out if you're up against QQ+. Plan to fold if he re-raises you.
sigh

please provide stacks sir
07-12-2012 , 03:09 PM
I don't mind flatting, you will be under-repped and in pos rest of hand. Only problem is V1 obviously calls almost all the time after you call, so it's going to be harder to define his holding later in the hand (altho from your descrip of Villain 1, that might not be a big deal seeing as you will be able to outplay him post in position) It's also nice to pot control against V2 in position who sounds like he is likely to blindly barrel a lot and u can jus call down

Also I think raising to 2,600-3k is plenty fine (I imagine in this case V1 folds every time, and V2 flats a high % of the time, and has to play oop vs you in an inflated pot), def pros and cons to both lines, just not sure which one is best in the Main Event.
07-12-2012 , 03:10 PM
assuming ~30k stacks, and against described opponent i think i'd 4b to like 2500 and expect to see 3 almost always. sometimes just call
07-12-2012 , 03:10 PM
I'm assuming all 3 are somewhere near starting stack based on it being lvl 1
07-12-2012 , 03:20 PM
V1 started the hand with close to starting stack, maybe 29,000. V2 started the hand with ~23500
07-12-2012 , 03:52 PM
I would flat. Only 4betting for value AA/KK level 1 300xBB deep. See a flop in position and probably call him down.
07-12-2012 , 03:57 PM
Pros for flatting: we get to keep a bad player in the pot OOP to us with a strong hand. We allow spazzy euro to keep the betting initiative and make some bad bets postflop with too wide a range. We keep pot small relative to stack size so we can make thinner plays without potentially crippling our stack in the mainest event of them all. We don't open the door to getting five-bet bluffed.

Cons for flatting: we get sandwiched with the worst relative position, we let SB realize his equity, we handcuff euro's ability to spazz by creating a multi-way pot, we miss value against euro's 3-bet/call range.

Did I miss anything?
07-12-2012 , 04:04 PM
^^^ sounds like the pros for flatting waaay outweigh the cons IMO...
07-12-2012 , 04:15 PM
I like the flat for the reasons described. That being said, 4betting to 2600 or so isn't a mistake-- if V1 is still in the hand then we're probably crushed, and if we get HU with V2 in position then we probably make a lot of money.
07-12-2012 , 04:27 PM
The button vs blinds dynamic in poker are such that people want to play back at eachother (especially crazy Euros) in a spot like that so if you 4 bet with JJ you can get shoved on with a wider range than usual in which case you can't really call..and I doubt he's folding AK and he might not even fold AQ because of the whole the "button never has a hand" line of thinking..flatting is a good decision, you can't overplay JJ in the first level of the main event, you're too deep
07-12-2012 , 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon_midas
^^^ sounds like the pros for flatting waaay outweigh the cons IMO...
agreed
07-12-2012 , 05:50 PM
i flat here pretty much always
07-12-2012 , 05:54 PM
i like flatting a lot more than 4b. if you 4b, what is your plan if he 5bets? what do you think about his 5b frequency in this spot?

i think stacks are too deep to 4b. its not like euro lags are banned from picking up QQ+,AK(AQ?). and i dont think he is 3betting to flat those, plus maybe he could 5b bluff blockers if hes really crazy and not giving you credit because of the beautiful button.

i mean its the main with stacks still being super deep, lots of soft spots, etc blabla why inflate a pot with JJ pre when you are IP? think your analysis is spot on, and imo the pros for flatting outweigh the cons by a pretty big margin.
07-12-2012 , 06:00 PM
I think flatting is better as standard. With further reads (if I thought euro was more likely to ego hood and less likely to ego 5bet, I'd 4bet)

I assume you went to the flop after flatting so just post a flop imo, pf discussion is kinda pointless since it's like whatever can't really go wrong here unless you misclick the fold button
07-12-2012 , 06:35 PM
I made it 2500. I thought I could pick a sizing where he'd be way more inclined to flat than 5-bet and clean up relative position issues, and I thought he'd make a ton of mistakes when I checked back flops (which I was planning on doing a lot).

The predictable happens and I see a flop HU against the Euro with 5300 in the middle.

The flop is 6h7hQc. He leads for 3K.
07-12-2012 , 06:51 PM
What did you have when he spazzed with his 6 high?
07-12-2012 , 07:01 PM
So he started the hand with 23K and has put 5,500 in after his flop bet..I flat here and see what he does on the turn..if you make it 7,500 and he jams you're priced in to make the call and you must be behind
07-12-2012 , 07:01 PM
sick spot.

Last edited by Andrew Boccia; 07-12-2012 at 07:20 PM.
07-12-2012 , 07:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapid_Fire
What did you have when he spazzed with his 6 high?
JdJx

#worsthandinnlhe
07-12-2012 , 08:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverScaredB
I made it 2500. I thought I could pick a sizing where he'd be way more inclined to flat than 5-bet and clean up relative position issues, and I thought he'd make a ton of mistakes when I checked back flops (which I was planning on doing a lot).

The predictable happens and I see a flop HU against the Euro with 5300 in the middle.

The flop is 6h7hQc. He leads for 3K.
Super flop for you. Call.
In the most likely spot that he is std c-betting, you get to pot control and win.
If he does have a Q, then you still have position on a very wet flop. Lot of raising opportunities in later streets when scare cards come, to get him off his 1 pair.
07-12-2012 , 08:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by somerook
Super flop for you. Call.
In the most likely spot that he is std c-betting, you get to pot control and win.
If he does have a Q, then you still have position on a very wet flop. Lot of raising opportunities in later streets when scare cards come, to get him off his 1 pair.
he didn't cbet; he donked. also, not sure it is that easy to get him to fold a q if a 3-flush hits.
07-12-2012 , 10:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moe Danglez
So he started the hand with 23K and has put 5,500 in after his flop bet..I flat here and see what he does on the turn..if you make it 7,500 and he jams you're priced in to make the call and you must be behind
Mostly (he can also get it in with an OE+FD or NFD type hand that were ahead of) agree with this. There are a lot of Qx combos in his 3b/c range here that I feel like he will have to slow down with if a draw completes on future streets (all the non TPFD combos) + he has shown some propensity to slow down once called for 2 barrels, so I would call with the intention of calling a 2nd barrel on a dry turn and folding to a 3rd barrel on a dry river, since there is also a good chance that he can c/c w Qx on a dry river + the decreased likelyhood of him 3bar bluffing this early in the ME. Unless you are planning to r/c the flop calling seems like the only real option here.

      
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