yeah obv i'm folding if he jams but lol at ppl saying he should have jammed here. i opened in EMP and he had >50BB ffs. i only even 4 to 6 bc kevin loves 3betting me with like any A/anything suited or connected otb on the reg and then hates folding if i make it 4 (just hates folding in general esp to me). i thought he'd eventually fold if i wagered all of his chips but if he's calling A9 then i guess my shove with 44 is terrible. fwiw A9 is still like 31% against my 4b/6b range in that spot and probably not much better against my 4b range against him, so no he shouldn't have jammed (nor did he INDUCE YO), nor should he have 5b called. but i shouldn't have jammed either, he GOT ME, so LOL POKER!!!!!!! WE IS LIGHTING EV ON FIRE DEEP IN EPTs, anyone wanna join the club?

If i see you opening and i have about 50bb on the button with A9o and the kind of history to have, id fistpump 3bet to 5bet jam seems perfect. I'd pbly make the sizing of the 3bet on the bigger side so that the chips we risking/chips in the pot ratio is higher and you need to fold less of the time to make it profitable and sometimes maybe u fold a bit more cause its more expensive for you to 4bet and not as profitable to call OOP.

3bet/5bet jamming there looks like a default plan against vanessa

fold pre

sick slowroll

This is just an absurd comment and one of the reasons that good players with super LAG reputations like Vanessa crush

say what you want with good sizing and good stack/money in the pot ratio, 3b/5bjam>> 3b/5bcall

dont wanna do the maths but having a blocker and with the % of times she 4bet/fold (think its a good spot for her to do, kevin is otb and he has to put his stack in to go any further) sounds like a very good idea to 5bet jam if u decide to 3bet her

Probably, but there are other options, such as 3b/f, flat, and fold.

Lol..me saying he should've jammed was only meaning instead of 5 betting to this sizing and then calling off, that jamming is much better if he is going to do what he did and I think you would def. agree. I'm not saying it was the right play to 5 bet period, etc. We all know he didn't induce as it's pretty evident by ppl saying he tanked for 10 min. and he shouldn't have called (as his 5b did look pretty strong and I can't see you being super light in this spot THAT often, (although I could be wrong)). Did you consider just flatting his 3b and set mining or were you set on 4b or folding?

Also, where you raised from wasn't specified in OP iirc, i'm just talking about the way the hand was played in general.

oh ok yeah i got you, i agree 5b jamming is better than 5b/call but both are pretty epically bad. i was UTG+1. i didn't consider flatting the 44 only bc of specific history whereby i just think he is light there and will 5b light a lot against me, so i thought it was a great hand to 4 to 6. i also thought he had too many BBs to be 3b to 5b with 55-99 type hands (he'd flat initially with his stack imo) so i thought i was pretty safe doing this with a small pair in terms of having lots of equity when called still.

fwiw i 4b to 6b but i hadn't made up my mind until i saw the play, saw the sizing, felt strong or weak, whatever ya know? i almost didn't pull the trigger actually... so when i said he was 31% against my range, i gave my range like 33-66 and TT+ AQ+ but didnt' even discount the small pairs which i guess i should do since i almost didn't pull the trigger. you're def right he seems strongish but just given history i thought small pairs were the one type of hand i had enough equity to bluff with here since he's light more often than most in this spot. other stuff with enough equity to bluff just has enough playability to call the 3bet (suited broadways) so i never show up with them here.

anyways, it's a pretty interesting hand from my perspective i feel. i have no idea whether i like my play in retrospect, it's risking a lot, but then again i like keeping the pressure on ppl and discouraging light 3bets when i have tons of chips given how often i'm raising light, lol. with hands i'm going to 4bet bluff sometimes but have no intention of 6b jamming, i'd much rather have blockers like Ax or KT or whatever.

well she just told you all about her range fellas, she never 6b bluffs! enducing A9 is bad! its cool i don't think kevin reads much 2p2 so you can keep playing your same strat vanessa.

I didn't see 84s listed in those ranges?

i mean, I know you two are just needling at this point, but I do think the hand is interesting so I will entertain. I think the fact of me being UTG1 rather than CO changes the nature of the situation a lot. And obv I do have a 6bet bluff range, even UTG+1. And this was one of the hands that fell into it.

Fair enough, pretty good logic I think. Makes a lot more sense with him being on the btn and your history etc. Yeah I am kind of undecided as well lol. Against a lot of ppl I'd just flat the 3b as I'm sure you would too but in this specific situation your reasoning seems pretty solid as to why you played your hand the way you did. If he tanked that long and had no plan then I think what you did was alright tbh.

I would like to hear from Kevin though lol.

Seems like he got into an xbetting war, then realized 'hey I got decent odds and shes prob light sometimes but what if not, but what if she shows a deuce, but what is she has AA and I look like a ******, but if she has A5 I will be a hero, f it I call'

sometimes i envision xbetting wars as sort of a market, it has been rising and rising but eventually it will bubble and when this hand is played in 5 years vanessa will open limp and kevin will overlimp

Yeh, 10 years ago standard would be for them to both limp. Pretty funny hand. Think raising wars will be part of the game, but it is getting a little weird with the small xbets and more and more marginal hands. Think maybe people will find other approaches.

Not sure the 3-bet size and stack sizes, but with the typical small 3-bets, it might have been reasonable to flat the 3-bet with 44 and let the aggressor barrel when you hit.

You love to explain what was std years ago huh?

cause you hit like every flop with 44?

what you described might be good in the big 109 but if you fistpump 3to5ball >50bb in an EPT vs Vanessa with A9o you prolly shouldn't play an EPT, like vanessa said it's burning ev in a redic way and I'm not judging kevins play here since he's obv bossy but to generalize his play is absurd

No, but if you are getting 3-1 immediate pot odds, and villain likely fires 2 barrels, then you may be getting the right price. Plus sometimes he hits and you stack him or close; of course sometimes you get stacked. Then you sometimes flop a straight draw, and you can call down on some low flops. Plus you are OOP without initiative, but you can maybe make plays sometimes when you miss. So wonder if flatting isn't profitable, so no need to 6-bet.

Think his play is OK until he tanked and decided to call. He was lucky to run into the small part of Vanessa's range where he was not dominated.

lmao i love this comment

I guess vanessa was flatting the 3-bet with 88 and getting soon with 44. I can't see any other reason to play 44 this way.

She already said that this was her plan for the hand...