Table is playing very loose, lots of limping. Villain in the hand is a 55 or so russian guy who is very loose/passive/ and generally bad. He limp/calls a lot and has been making hands and has chipped up a little.

Hero: 12k
Villain: covers

50/100

utg folds, villain limps utg+1, 5 limps, hero makes it 600 with KK in the sb, villain makes it 1800 all fold to hero who??

Shoves. Raise more pre to like 1k. Your small raise is like putting a huge bust me sign on your head.

Passive players don't usually reraise without a real hand. If you shove and he has a weak ace you are going home 29% of the time. Of course, he could have AA. Call and see the flop. Put in a feeler to see if he continues the aggression.

I like call also. If he's up to whatevs let him blast away but we should never be folding. I also don't mind a shove, but I think we're only really getting value from QQ and maybe AK/JJ

Spots like this make me hate live poker. But, generally bad loose passive limp/callers don't randomly limp re raise. Also, I raise to 450-500 in this spot preflop. This depends alot on live reads etc. Has he open raised even one pot yet? Thing is, this is never a bluff. And it almost seems to me he never has AK (old people do not limp re raise AK, they see it as a drawing hand and do not understand value). I kind of just want to throw up. This is a ridiculous spot where I think his range is generally like AA way way more than QQ ever, and KK is unlikely but possible, for obvious reasons.

I don't recall him ever opening, he has limp called Ax several times and made wheels and aces up and has amassed some chips.

Randall, given the info you have, do you like a fold here?

Oh wait nvm I'm an idiot and didn't see all these people limped. I'll re read and post again later on, sorry.

Edit: I think it actually makes his limp re raise stronger, and I'd raise to 750 preflop. I still think it's the same general principle though and would cry and fold.

Fwiw, hero asked the limp re-raiser if he was the first one to limp in and he kind of shrugged his shoulders looked at the guy utg and said "I guess I was".

lol throw up on the table. such a sick spot. pretty sure he has aa but i go broke here anyway

If you call and put in a feeler bet on the flop the loose/passive villian will either reraise when you are likely beat or slow down when you are likely winner. Of course, you could catch a K and crack his AA.

This is ******ed.

This is terrible. If we decide to call preflop I think we have to go broke on most flops. This "information play" is soo bad on so many levels.

edit: just saw randall's post and think he summed it up perfectly.

call, and call lots of flops and read souls on turn, im most likely not folding this.

The first two replies in this thread ('raise to 1k and kill your action' and 'don't get all in against Arag because you lose 29% of the time') are comically bad, obviously the 2nd response is much worse.

I like 600 pf, I don't like making it too much because then these players start limp-folding their dominated hands. 750 is also fine...

This is indeed a sick spot because some players take this line with aces only. I think that we need to decide right here if he is that type of player or not.

You did not mention your table image. If you are young looking and if you have been aggressive then the chances that he is making a play (with 99-QQ) is increased (not saying it is likely, just that it is increased.)

I think I am more inclined to think that this villain is capable of making a move because he is a 55 year old russian rather than a 55 year old American but that might just be residual Cold War propeganda that is influencing my read. This is really a go with your gut moment where you have to take advantage of any live tells and history that you have.

If we think that he is the type to have aces 100% then we want to make an implied odds call pf and then fold any flop we miss (obv he is stacking off with aces on a king high board if he has them)

If we think that he has a wider range then I like calling with the intention of calling his bet on the flop, betting smallish when checked to on the turn, and shoving the river. This line is better than shoving pf as he will often be able to get off 99-JJ if we shove (obviously it is 'wrong' to limp-raise-fold in that spot but we are assuming he will not realize that).

ez 6k

The old guy's Russian? Get it in. He ain't folding and his range is wider than AA.

I am really curious about the results.

Fiji, u do realize there were 6 limpers and that hero is out of position? So you can edit your comically bad post.

While I don't have a ton of live experience, every single time a 50+ yr old EP playa limp/rr, I have seen AA. Luckily, most have been while I'm not in the hand!

That said, there are a few meta-game dynamics here. You are certainly deep enough to fold. Please note that this is never, ever a fold online but in this situation I think I can find a fold here.

BTW, if you don't fold, then reraise. Calling here is terrible.

Undeniably a disgusting spot to be in...I would have to agree with the consensus here that this guy's range is probably AA. There is a slight possibility that he may also have something like AQ, AJ (suited of course), hence the limp...QQ JJ and AK don't seem as possible as I don't think he would limp with those....but not sure.

At this point in the tourny I would probably fold, if he has AA he will show everyone I bet, if he doesn't show I would give more credibility to a lower hand...

I will say that the 600 bet is a bit low in this spot...you have 6 limpers so if you use the 3x BB + 1 BB per limper, you are looking at a 900-1000 bet, and a reraise of that would be a much clearer message and an easier fold, plus you are more likely to get the AQ, AJ, A10's etc to fold....

That's my 2 cents.....I am very sympathetic to your situation, I hope it all worked out for you!!!!!

We don't want AQ, AJ, A10s etc to fold.

what happened?

Folding seems overly cautious, I would think we should at least be playing to flop a set here -- we'll probably take Villian's stack assuming he has what we think he has (i.e., his cards are who we thought they were), since he'll probably think there's a good chance that we have AK if we go crazy on a K-high board (which I think makes set-mining better here with KK than any other hand -- if the board comes J-high and we c/r all in on the flop, he's not going to put us on AJ). There's already 3050 in the pot, it's 1200 more to us, Villain's probably betting around 3K on any and all flops.

Shoving pre here sucks IMO, the stacks, in addition to being deep, are extremely awkward for us to jam 12K over an 1800 reraise. Plus I think we're only getting called by one hand if we shove.

I disagree with this. If we shove, villain is only calling with AA, maybe QQ. If villain happened to limp/rr with JJ TT AQs etc we need to try and get value out of those hands. Shoving will just allow him to fold all these worse hands bust us when he has AA.

My point is: By only betting 600, we are letting these hands in much too cheaply...giving them an opportunity to hit their Ace....Also, IMO it shows some weankness and and invites the result that happened in this hand...a re-raise that could or could not mean AA...

The higher raise (~1000), prevents the re-raise, except from very strong hand, which makes our decisions easier.