Stealthmunk, what on earth are you talking about saying that 500bbs is gonna jack up variance?

Also for the love of god stop throwing the word scam around. I'm honestly surprised so many ppl are on your side on all of this. I think you will likely have an edge in this heads up match, but I can't support the way you are relentlessly attacking Joe based on a few hands, and especially the way he has come into this thread with nothing but class and yet you insist on making this personal and dirty

Normally the way negotiations work is one party offers a deal, the other party counters, this goes on for a while until they find an agreeable middle ground. I don't understand why the parties involved don't understand this.

john k do you blow joe tehan on the reg or something? i mean I dont get how the guy cant come in here to handle his business - not sure whats worse him not coming in and talking through you or you willing to write out long winded paragraphs for him...

and this match isnt going to happen - john stated joe doesnt wanna play tbj hu and basically just wants to not be called a scam artist........hence his 500 bb offer which is absurd.

what's more absurd? 500 or 50bb?

what's more likely to happen, this match or FTP paying us back 100%?

this. seems like camp tehan is sitting tight as a nice way out of this.

sure tehan will 100% play hu4rollz, I, John K, says so
ONLY 100000BB DEEP IN HIS HOME TOWN FOR 1 HOUR ON A TUESDAY

and still tehan hasnt addressed this on his own. just john k doing his beaking. surely he can agree to some type of middle type match that munk has alluded to agreeing to. like first to 5 wins at 25/50 10k stacks

The part that is a joke is the best of 1. Team Tehan has to find a proposal for a match that is more than best of 1 for it to be a legit match.

lol wtf at all this nonsense about 50bb and everyone comparing 50bb. like TBJ has come off as a maniac mong again obv but like hes clearly stated he wants to play 200bb matches.

So everyone needs to stfu about the 50bb bull**** and stop comparing that to 500bb and compare 200bb to 500bb in which case 200bb is clearly the more reasonable option.

I think you saying this is pretty LOL considering pretty much everyone but you disagrees with your definition of scamming. You can't just make up your own definitions of words and then say you don't want to argue semantics.

If you just admit your wrong about the usage of the word and instead just say Joe was trying to sell unprofitable shares then you could convey the same message without making anyone angry/questioning their integrity.

Didn't realize twoplustwoers were so knowledgable about the english language and I should just accept that my usage is incorrect because some idiots disagree with me. My b.

Lets go through google.

A scam simply means that someone is decieving you for his or her own good, in other words it means that people are tricking you for what you have

This definition works perfectly fine for Joe Tehan. He has decieved marketplace investors for his own good. Tricking them for what they have. He doesn't know he was tricking them. Still perfectly honorable. I think my usage is perfectly fine with this definition found on the front page of google. But I will say some definitions make sure to include intent/fraud/other verbs that make it seem bad. I believe that "Con Artist" is more of a negative connotation word to describe those people whereas Joe is just a "Scammer" and there is less negative connotation there.

In fact when I bolded SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM I was clearly using the noun form, which I think is NOT an attack at Joe's character....just simply that buying his action his a SCAM and I will stand by that claim and defend it.

Feels good to not have to see John Ks posts anymore

I don't know exactly how live games work but I haven't seen many live games where there is a lot of 300+BB play, and I've played decent stakes live pretty much everywhere, australia, europe, east coast, west coast.

The only time you'd see that is if there was a huge mark sitting that deep and a no max buyin table because the biggest max buyin I've seen with the exception of some few no max buyin games is 250 bb.

100bb deep is standard. That isn't debatable.

I am sitting with 10k . They don't take that. Guess no match Tehan can come in here and say he only wants my action if I'm 300bb deep or more, and we can move on with our lives.

Even using your flawed definition of scam where the intent of the scammer is irrelevant you still cannot really say his shares in marketplace are a scam. In order to do so you would have to prove with empirical evidence that the actual value of the shares are less than whatever markup he is charging. This is obviously impossible to determine using a sample size of a few hands that he misplayed. There is a possibility he plays every hand like such a beast that his expected value is through the roof. While this may not be the case there is no real way to know his actual value even if we looked at every single hand he every played in a tournament.

That is why the market exists people will drive the price close to the true value by way of buying or not buying up his shares. If his prices are too high naturally over time they will come down since no one will buy them.

We have different views of the marketplaces functionality and use.

How about you guys sit with 5k and you can rebuy for whatever you want whenever you want until someone quits? Maybe has to pay 5k to quit?

Some version of a doubling cube too imo

Do you agree with me that it impossible to determine his true expected value in a tournament therefor it cannot be determined if he is "scamming"(even by your definition)?

If he was trying to sell shares for 80 cent for every dollar of the buyin is he still scamming? Logically by your definition he is scamming until he charges at a price that StealthMunk personally thinks is profitable. This is clearly an absurd interpretation of the word "scam"

While it is impossible to determine ones true expected value it can still be determined within great confidence that EV is < a certain point.

I don't think if he was selling his shares for 80c of every .
dolllar, or even even money he would still be scamming.

I think I'm very qualified to judge when its completley absurd enough and someone got scammed. And when someone charges 1.2 for WPTs and backs that up with the play that Joe exibited in the Epic Poker League FT for hundreds of thousands of dollars, its clear to anyone with a brain that he's -EV at that price.

While its impossible to know if he's break even /-20%/+10% w/e....its still just impossible for it to be +EV for investors when he is playing that terribly shortstacked and has clearly no clue what he's doing and completely outclassed while playing for the most money.

For example, I don't know what my true ROI is. I can make guesses. I'd bet a lot of money its >0% and <400% though

The Bear Jewish told me highest stakes he will play Joe at is .01c/2c cap at the bellagio

Obviously the smaller and midstakes games are the ones with max buys, not the HSNL games. In Vegas alone, the $2-$5 game at Wynn is $1500 max (300bb) and the $5-$10 at Aria is $3000 max (300bb). In the $10-$20 at Bellagio and Commerce it's very common for average stacks to be 6k (300bb) with several people playing effective stacks of 10k+ (500bb).

While asking for 500bb may be extreme, 300 is very reasonable. Plus TBJ, with 300bb stacks you might have a chance!

I agree 300bbs deep is the compromise here

300% more is equal to 40% less? 200 is a way better compromise

300 BBs +1

Maybe if enough peeps on the sideline pipe in and approve, the 2 parties will compromise and make it happen.
If not, this has all been an exercise in ham and cheese...

don't use those big numbers when arguing w/ those that support team tehan they aren't that great at understanding math or logic.

50-100, 25k buyin wouldn't work why?

sounds pretty sweet

As a member of Team Tehan, I gotta say this is a funny guy.

Outrageously wrong he is but the nuttiness is almost adorable the way it is timed.