lol

lol all you want, but I'm not the one complaining about how below expectation I run or how I'll be forever waiting for poker to finally give me what's rightfully mine. I love poker and the life it has given me, and I just hate seeing my peers be so negative when they have been given such an incredible opportunity in life, if they only choose to take advantage of it properly.

If you've been through what I've been through and what I'm going through, you'd probably be a negative person as well.

I don't really like getting into this debate on a public forum as its too personal but feel free to PM me for my AIM name if you really think that being a positive person would magically heal me.

You don't know me that well...

Likewise my friend. I think you'd be surprised at the adversity others have faced. I'll pm you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxtn6-XQupM

if i bought action of someone and read a hand history of this happening, id assume the person sold over 100% of themselves and was trying to bust before cashing....i think u should not be sellin action at markup to ppl while being so big a degen idiot that ull jam 42o here, so i can see how justin would say u sellin action is a scam

Someone photoshop a yarmulke on this animal, please. Then it will be perfect.

i hear ya, just loled cuz u said that to bear jew and not some random. It's been established that it ain't happenin.

jesus people..this thread has gone from bad to worse..dfish is spot on in pretty much everything he has said.
If i were at this final table..i might be taking "gambles" like joe did with the k6s hand. What am i going to really outplay chewy and klod in the long run when we are 200bb deep? You guys ever think that Joe might have felt this way and knew his best shot at this FT was to gamble it up?

No one wants to talk about that...if Joe stays there..and plays the way 2p2 wants him to play..does he have a shot to beat chewy/klod 3 handed? And on the surface his A7 3bet/call is not good..it might be his strategy.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Joe or his game..i have never met or played with him (that i can recall). But i would think he is a smart enough player to realize being 3 handed with klod and chewy isnt really a great spot for him. And he might have to do things a tad "unconventional" to win the thing.

Lost my energy to argue. I would if my computer charger didn't break so I'm on iPad instead.

I've never seen you cold call a 17 bb reshove with a marginal hand at a ft.

The rational of being 40% vs his range and taking a shot at taking a gamble for 140k is irrational and wrong on so many levels. It really isn't debatable. It would be like saying 2+2 doesnt equal 4. I would explain in more detail if you are dense and want it explained but a wice would probably do a better job so I'd ask him to.

Yes, of course, this is terrible. Can't see how people are defending it. People were even defending the 42o hand. Pretty obvious his play was worse but all 3 players made basic mistakes in that hand.

Don't agree with you on all the scam stuff though.

Actually I think Wildman make a fair point ... in theory, it could be optimal for Joe to make a -ev call preflop if he thinks he is even more -ev in the match overall.

The call in question was while 4handed................and for about 1/8th of his chips i think? I don't remember exactly. Something between 1/8th or 1/11th.

Yes, if he was hu vs chewy even stacks and wins if he tries his hardest 35% of the time or something absurd he should take a 40% shot allin if he knows he's 40% vs range or whatever.

The call wasn't one of those situations.

He was just gambling. In fact, we can get into details as to why ICM probably dictates he should play TIGHTER than cEV would say....but that would have him pretty damn tight. I mean calling 55 or KJs is probably a spew so can only imagine what K6s is.

When will this thread die? There always is a new idiot that steps in defending JT's button clicking....listen guys JT made two really terrible plays, and his explanation for those plays in interview and ITT show that it wasn't tilt/it wasn't a mess up/ it was purely that this guy has no clue what he's doing with these stack sizes. This is really crystal clear.

And you guys don't seem to understand....if he's playing 3handed and taking these gambles...rather than playing poker....then he has no right to sell at the markup he is!!!!

That would mean selling at 1.2 MU for a WPT when he's that bad of a player a SCAMSCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM

HE CAN BE IGNORANT AND THINK THAT HE'S WORTH THAT MARKUP, BUT NAH, ITS STILL A SCAM THAT I WILL POINT OUT.

SURE IT MAY BE LIBERAL USAGE, ARGUE THAT ALL YOU WANT THATS ONE THING I MAY HAVE DONE WRONG ITT! SCAMMING DOES SOMETIMES IMPLY MALICIOUS INTENT...AND SOME OF THINGS HE SAID ARE ON THE EDGE THERE BUT W/E. WHAT CAN YOU DO.

TBJ???


or...

TBJ:



Ok, just having a little fun, don't take it personally TBJ but seriously gotta agree with Dfish about the fact that many, many people have suffered through insanely sickening life beats, having horrific, unspeakable things happen to them and their family/friends throughout their lives; and it isn't necessarily an excuse to allow negative energy to infiltrate every facet of your life, spilling out into every interaction you have with people on a daily basis. After a while it can create a self fulfilling, self defeating pattern that is very hard to escape and will generally hold you back.

Again, I hope you end up on the right side of variance in some fashion in the near future, for no other reason than it would possibly temper your attitude somewhat and take some of the gratuitous acid off your otherwise sweet posts. As Slayer said, its probably gonna fall on deaf ears but w/e, just throwing it out there.

/derail

Have a nice day.

Hope I die soon by a freak accident because I generally am too much of a pussy to kill myself but can not stand dealing with you ****ing idiots any longer.

/derail

Have a nice day.

LOL Stealthmunk, chill out. That's a long rant to a sarcastic one-liner of mine.

if it is good for a healthy marketplace for people to point out bad investments and such how come 90% of the threads in marketplace don't have people posting "lol" in them

You guys who are honestly trying to say a guy is -EV based on 2 hands obviously don't know anything about poker. This theory that because a guy makes a certain type of mistake (OMG his get-it-in range @ <20 bbs was off) implies he's -EV or will make tons of other types of mistakes, is just ridiculous.

No question internet guys have the advantage <20 bbs in a live tournament, pretty much always. Luckily for livepros live tournaments are usually played much deeper and tons of internet players are clueless postflop >50 bbs

Pretty sure Joe is +EV in every tourney he plays. Not sure if he's +EV enough to cover the markup he charges but I'm 100% in the DFish camp - this is a business decision - if you don't think it's a good investment don't buy

Some of the things said in this thread are completely ridiculous

Also the stupid 3:1 markup examples are stupid. He's charging 1.3 : 1. When he, or someone else, starts charging 3:1, start a new thread

Ok now you are out of line and just being a complete douche. I think just about everybody itt except you are saying Joe never scammed anybody and never had any intent of doing so. Again, as a friend and somebody that knows him well, he would be the last person that would scam anybody...if anything, he helps out fellow poker players to a fault (that he never gets paid back). Others that know him (inc. some in this thread) think the same and have already said this.

You've done nothing but berate him, his character by saying he's intentionally scamming others, and in this day when NVG is filled w/ real scammers, this is a very serious accusation to make on a fellow poker player who makes a living playing.

I'm not sure who you are, but it seems like you're respected here and that's why I have more of an issue w/ it. You know nothing of Joe as a person and you keep saying he's a scam artist when clearly everybody else disagree with you.

Now I'm going to answer some of your posts since you've personally attacked Joe's character.

Sure poker was softer 5 years ago, but it doesn't mean it was easy to win a load of money back then. Even the WPT Joe won had a stacked field. It was a $10k w/ about 300 entrants. I even recall a hand Joe played where he won a huge pot vs. Patrick Antonius when Joe had the nf vs. Antonius' worse flush on day 2. He busted Antonius that hand. I'm pretty sure Antonius overplayed his hand because both were top 10 in chips....but might it have been because everybody views Joe as a complete maniac getting it all in w/ hands like 42o?

I'll give you this bet.

You obviously can't see you're getting leveled. That's the funny thing about this. Joe's playing the dumb role because he doesn't care what you guys think. What he does care about and I care about as a friend is you making serious accusations of scamming and hurting his rep and his marketplace action in the future (in before you come back w/ his play speaks for itself... how about the fact he's up millions in poker over an 8 year period, in various forms of poker?).

Again accusing him of stealing w/ no basis or ground in doing so.

I'm not defending Joe's play but the fact that he wasn't articulate enough for you in an interview and use that as basis to say that he sucks in poker is lol. He never said he played the hand well...he probably knew he made a questionable to bad call and just didn't have a proper answer for it in the heat of the moment interview. Again idk if you've done interviews but it's not always easy to gather your thoughts to explain yourself, especially if you misplayed a hand.

Again accusing him of scamming.

Another level that went way above you. Do you think a guy that has close to 4mil in cashes over 8 years as a part time mtt pro w/ probably one of the highest roi's over this timespan (not to mention his success in cash games) thinks he's -ev in poker? So a guy that has no clue in poker just continues to crush poker year in year out.

I don't like to brag or sound materialistic but anytime you are in Vegas, you are welcome to come hang out w/ us at Joe's house or condo. Maybe he'll come pick you up in his BMW. Or if you're in CA, you can stay at his house in Santa Barbara.

I don't like to say so and so is better because he has this or that, but TBJ's attacks have warranted it. Also Joe might not even appreciate me pointing out stuff he owns (because he's humble and doesn't flash things) but I want to make the point that he owns a ton of equity in life, all from poker. I'd like to know what TBJ owns, besides an inflated ego and a delusional sense of entitlement.

This post strays from all the ones from TBJ's but I brought it up because Clayton is wrong here. I have the utmost respect for Clayton and respect his game and insight but you dropped the ball here siding w/ TBJ w/o knowing the facts, and especially knowing the person Stealthmunk or TBJ is accusing of scamming.

I think you respect my knowledge of the game as well (I'm Nicolak if you didn't know) and I'm being truthful when I say Joe Tehan is a crusher in poker, mtts and cash games. Results may not matter, but if they do, especially over the past 8 years, all I can say is that Joe's results speak for themselves.

This is why I have a problem w/ your accusations. You aren't a nobody making serious accusations. You actually have some pull here and I'm here to correct your incorrect conclusions.

Ok, I seem to get why you have so much animosity towards Joe. Doesn't mean it's right for you to channel your negativity towards a guy you don't know and make serious accusations.

It's also very lol that you are claiming how much better you are than him in poker when you admit you had a losing year in poker this year and playing low stakes.

Joe's got a $300k, $725k, and 5 $47k+ cashes in the past 13 months and he's made a boatload in cash games. I'm not bringing up the previous 7 years because you apparently think they don't count since games were soft and it was easy to make millions (if I did Joe would add $2.5 mil in cashes).

Actually to simplify things, let's just compare live mtt results since that's where this discussion stems from...

Joe's Hendon Mob...

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=42082

1st cash in April 2005, total winnings 3.6 million.

Your (The Bear Jew's) Hendon Mob...

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=s&n=82852

1st cash in Nov. 2006, total winnings $278k.

Let's see, so Joe started a year and a half before you and has over 13 times your winnings.

Oh I'm sure you'll bring up your cash game results or maybe your online results. Since there's really no way to prove how much each party is up overall, we'll have to take each others' words for it. I'll bet any amount that Joe is up more money (net profit from mtts and cash games, after buyins) than you are in poker. We can even take the annual avg's if you'd like since that's a better indicator of who's better.

Finally we get to the good part. Honestly I have no idea who you are, all I know is that you seem well respected in the online mtt community. The only impression I have from you is the attacks you make against one of my best friends in poker when you are clearly wrong. So excuse me if I don't hold you in the highest regards.

Anyway it seems like you do well online, do well in poker, and would love to get your hands on some easy Joe Tehan money.

Crossbooking for such a small sample of mtts (during the WSOP) is not the best way to determine who the better poker player is so I don't think Joe will be too interested in this proposition. I'm not a 100% sure though.

A more sure fire way of determining the better player is playing hu and since you offered to play him at any stakes in any game nl or plo, I'm sure he'll take you up on this offer. He trusts me and I'll set the parameters if you're willing to back up your words. Play a freezeout for $25k at stakes $25/$50 nl hu...w/ maybe a time limit of a minimum of 4-6 hrs played.

He is in Vegas or Los Angeles all the time so it won't be too hard getting a game vs. him. I'm sure w/ your skills and Joe's inability to play poker you'll take his $25k easily. You seem to have rich friends that know you are a great poker player so it should be easy getting a stake, although I wonder how you don't have $25k to play such a huge fish hu given that you crush poker.

Just PM me to arrange it or we can set it up here.

Also if you're wondering why I'm speaking for him, I already mentioned I'm his closest friend in poker and I interact w/ the 2+2 crowd way more often than he does...he rarely comes on 2+2, and I'm more of an online guy so I thought I'd speak for him and I'm sure he's ok with it.

It's on

im confused, if tehan is clearly > why would he not be interested in a crossbook for the wsop? seems absurd not to be?

Wtf does this mean? I pointed out Joe's results in the past 13 months. He plays in tournaments of all sizes, including $5k's and $10k's.

I said I'm not sure about that. I'm probably viewing this from my point of view as a cash game player primarily. I tend to think it's easier to determine who is better at poker in a hu match than taking each person's results over 15-20 mtts.

Also TBJ offered to play Joe hu in nl at any stakes so I'm setting up a match, one that I'm sure Joe will accept.

Of course it wont prove who's better, but if one believes they're better then crossbooking will make him some money.

I think it's unfair for munk to be insulting JT's character and a big stretch to assess his ROI from 2 hands and an interview. That said you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of variance. Roughly how many tournaments are you talking about over the last 8 years? Is it even 200?