Poker Stars $200+$15 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t400/t800 Blinds + t50 - 9 players
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Hero (BTN): t31850
SB: t11450
BB: t9505
UTG: t17893
UTG+1: t16450
UTG+2: t13300
MP1: t33775
MP2: t8275
CO: t20920

Pre Flop: (t1650) Hero is BTN with J J
3 folds, MP1 raises to t2150, 2 folds, Hero calls t2150, 1 fold, BB calls t1350

Flop: (t7300) 4 3 5 (3 players)
BB bets t7305 all in, MP1 raises to t31575 all in, Hero ???


Preflop raiser hasn't done anything out of line...and small blind has been playing standard/tight shortstack poker...

lol awesome, this is the first thread I've ever read in HSMTT...

I would guess the reason noone says their oppinion on it is because its a very difficult spot.

BB play is kinda weird, he calls OOP 15% of his stack preflop, cant really think many hands that would justify that play. All the more so since its very close that he has the two of you potcomitted for the remainder of his stack so why doesnt he just shove preflop if he has a hand. I really dont have a good idea what his hand is. It looks alot like a stop-and-go, but that flop is aboslutely horrible for it. He could have something like Axs of diamons in which case would definately play it like that postflop, but I dont see how he can call preflop with any Axs. He could have flopped a set, and figuring its too coordinatd board to slowplay, but he doesnt quite have the odds to setmine. Or he could just take a huge gamble with small overpair. And finally there is the pure bluff with 2oc. In any case, most of his range is weak imo.

For MP1 there are only two explanations, either he has Ax of diamonds, which is kinda stupid play since there is no reason to chase you out of the pot. If he wins against one player he wins against both, so he might as well try to drag you into the pot. And then there is the logical hand, big overpair or a set, he has no reason to let you in cheap since he figures the only hands you will overcall with are monster draws, and he rather not have those in the pot.

Despite the fact that your hand is underrepped I would fold.

i really think we neet to be re-raising IR based on effective stacks

Pls shove pre ty

MP1 has equity to call BB's shove with any ace so it's not like his range got any narrower

Wha? Shoving like 15X his raise? Isn't going to 6400 with the intention of calling a shove much better since we give him the opportunity to spaz out 4 bet?

As played I call on the flop. There is a ton of stuff MP1 can be calling with that you beat, including A high as adanthar said.

really is folding the flop way too tight? the way OP described both players they seem to be tighter satellite players who arent spaz shoving the flop. and sure he has equity with ace high but those satellite players either dont know this or would only call the shove not overshove into the only stack at the table that can bust them. isnt mp1's range on this flop like AA-TT, 77-33, and some combo draws/overcard FDs? i would think 88 99 maybe TT and certainly ace high no diamonds would flat the open shove to see what hero does.

again, all this is on the assumption that mp1 and bb have been playing tight not out of line so im just assuming theyre low limit satellite players.

I like the flat with the deeper stacks and the opener is early pos. I'd call the all in on the flop you beat many hands.

def reraise pre.....


call as played

am I just a really bad tourney player or is this not always a 3bet shove pre with a 12BB stack over an opener who happens to have the most chips at the table

oops....I was misled by the bold font in the OP to think that we were in the bb with 9500.

sry sry

see....he was fooled too!!!!!

I guess Gordo and I are the dunces of th' day.

assuming he's flatting some hands and shoving some others is pretty silly (you have no clue how this guy plays). it's just adding a variable that's totally unnecessary. i'd imagine he just shoves his whole range for simplicity. we're only like 40bb deep.

is just another assumption that you cannot make.

If we're calling, whats the worst pair we call with?

It seems this spot has a ridiculous amount of variance. How profitable do you think calling off 35-40bb stacks in close spots like this be in the long run? At what point do we fold barely +ev spots, knowing we can outplay the table and get chips in easier spots?

I know thats kind of a nebulous question, but I think it's worth considering.

the fact that ace high would get it in period is just an assumption, someone else said it. and also, of course i dont know how this guy plays, no one does, thats what a random is. my input is based on the idea that the villains are tight randoms and may fit the mold of a satellite player. you have to make assumptions on how a random may play in these spots.