Tournament just started. It's level two blinds. I'm playing LAG raising a high % of my hands.

Villain in the hand seems pretty standard so far.

I'm UTG and its 7 handed.
Effective stacks 25k

Hero (UTG): Ts 8h
Raise to 500
Villain on my immediate left calls
BB ( old standard player) calls.

Flop ( 1575)

Jc 8c 8d

Hero : bets 850
Villain : calls
BB folds

Turn (3275)

3h

Hero : bets 1650
Villain raises 3650

Alarm bells went off here. I didn't think he was raising with a draw. Maybe a good jack or an overpair? It's a thin range here IMO would like input here.
Has to be JJ or J8 right?

I call.

River : Qh

I vote to check call. Once I call turn I'm probably not folding unless river is a huge bet.

Thoughts on bet folding? If I lead for $3200 or so and villain raises he has to be butted right? Also he might check J or two pair or overpair back so I lose value. Thoughts here?

I check
Villain bets 6k

I think for five minutes and call.

Villain has JJ.

Fyp

Tank for five minutes and fold pre

I play lag and I don't want your opinion on my playing style, and statements like "fold pre". Stick to your standard playing style of hoping to get cards and don't comment on mine.

I want to discuss the hand post flop.

It's hard to comment on the hand postflop when you've made a large mistake preflop. As played, I don't think you're good on the turn, but you can maybe call and call a tiny riverbet. But once he bets 6k on the river, if he doesn't suck and isn't extremely good you should fold.

Raising PF isn't as bad as people are saying. Maybe it loses 50-100 chips or something if people are playing perfectly, but it's a live $560 and people clearly are not. I'd probably call turn/fold river as played, since AJ or any Jx is unlikely to raise the turn for value and even worse 8x might slow down on the river. Gross spot though.

It just shows that op is clicking buttons - or maybe he's the only poker player on earth who's figured out how to find a profit with w 108s utg In a full ring game idk

Pre ante too

fun part is that it's even offsuit

If you choose to play super wide ranges pre, you should learn how to play them post-flop too. If you called that turn raise and stationed to the river bet, you can't play those ranges post. It could be a fold on the turn versus some, but it's a fold otr versus most.

But hey, good luck getting ev out of T8o utg, don't let haters tell you what to do.

Agreed op- haters gonna hate keep playing your game!

I considered folding the turn raise but kind of just let my hand play itself, normally I don't autopilot like that or lose a big part of my stack that early.
I love raising super light in early stages because it's a great way to get cheap infuriation and you can clip someone who doesn't know how to properly play big pots, in this case I clipped myself.

Poker is about learning and LAG style is hard to master. Everyone has missteps.

This forum is about everyone helping each other better their game, not putting people down without any constructive way to improve their game. If you don't understand the reason behind raising preflop then skip that part of the hand analysis. I'm not here to explain why or why not I think it's fine, I'm more interested in the post flop lines.

This hand is indicative of nothing about OPs post flop game or anything. I am pretty sure OP is trying to get live players to make big mistakes on turn/river, and on plenty of runouts the guy who flatted JJ is going to call a c-bet then fold to a 2nd barrel. If hero uses proper sizing and has a good read on opponents, opening close to ATC UTG 7 handed is probably justified at some of these really soft tables. If you don't agree then you must consider players like Selbst, Mercier, TheGrinder, etc. to be complete luckboxes since this is how they play in order to accumulate a big stack.

This hand is just kind of a cooler and hero probably could have saved himself some money long term by folding river but I don't think his line results in him punting with 0% equity in the pot. Results on runouts like this are very misleading due to the binary and dynamic nature of NLHE where for every nit with JJ or A8s here 100% of the time there are a similar # of spazzers with 98s, 87s or AJo, etc.

This is a bunch of bullcrap. Rec players folding top pairs or god forbid overpairs in 560$ mtts? Good luck with that. Opening ATC utg? Good luck with that. Players that you have mentioned are not poker elite by any means, and they still don't open T8o utg. Not a single decent player does.

Soft field means that you can value town people easily and wider and that you can get away from tough spots easier because opposition is playing predictably and usually telegraph their hands strength. Somehow some players think that "soft field" = I will open ATC because I am a poker god and will outplay those noobs. Then embarassing hands like this happen.

Do you know how hard it is to consistently make good hands and go to "value town?"

You think you just get AJs +every 10 hands and everything is all good?

You get these players to pay you with crap like top pair. You go to "value town" but with a much wider range and you trust your hand reading ability / post flop play.

Hopefully one day you'll get a nice run o cards while playing TAG, win a few coin flips and take the tourney down. GL

No one has put you down, people are trying to help your game by stating that it's probably not +ev to raise 10,8o UTG, so I guess you're not open to critique of your game. People don't understand the raise pre-flop, but you posted this hand and pre-flop play is a big part of the hand so we cannot just skip that part of the hand analysis. You got yourself in this spot by opening with those cards, so you should be open to criticism of every part of your game and not just certain parts.

^ makes sense.

But why is it such a big mistake? No one discussed it they just said "fold pre terrible play" I like building pots against people who misplay their hands with 200bb. Also it gives me information on their play moving forward when blinds are much bigger and when pots matter more.

^ Have seen adjectives bad, and large, not terrible, used. Youre just basically starting the hand from a -EV perspective in probably what will amount to bad pof position, and youre just putting yourself at a disadvantage. If the field is as straightforward and bad as you say, let them put themselves in those perspectives, and capitalize on them, imo.

Stop giving op a clue imo

This argument is supposed to be a good reason to not open extremely wide in MTTs?

It's one of the many arguments, was just trying to level with OP