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Old 07-22-2008, 03:08 PM   #51
THEOSU
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Re: Big stacks collide in $5,000 WSOP 6 max tourney. Wait for a better spot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornell Fiji View Post
What weighted range are you putting him on that JJ is that different from 44?
well, lftv is all smart and stuff.

also, jacks fare better against AK than fours do. and who knows, if he's crazy/cranky, tens or AJ might be in his range.
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Old 07-22-2008, 03:23 PM   #52
ike
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Re: Big stacks collide in $5,000 WSOP 6 max tourney. Wait for a better spot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornell Fiji View Post
What weighted range are you putting him on that JJ is that different from 44?
what range are you putting him on where you're considering calling with 44? JJ does a lot better against that range.

heres a range where calling 44 is ok (not even exciting, just ok):

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 45.982% 45.36% 00.62% 1225765392 16678344.00 { 44 }
Hand 1: 54.018% 53.40% 00.62% 1442893632 16678344.00 { 22+, A2s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }

now here's JJ:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

2,393,800,992 games 0.005 secs 478,760,198,400 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 65.675% 65.17% 00.50% 1560088536 12035880.00 { JJ }
Hand 1: 34.325% 33.82% 00.50% 809640696 12035880.00 { 22+, A2s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }
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Old 07-22-2008, 03:27 PM   #53
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Re: Big stacks collide in $5,000 WSOP 6 max tourney. Wait for a better spot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornell Fiji View Post
Feel free to skim to the bottom if you just want the boring ole hand history.


sigh i wish i had. Discussing a call here is ridiculous...
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Old 07-22-2008, 04:37 PM   #54
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Re: Big stacks collide in $5,000 WSOP 6 max tourney. Wait for a better spot?

Ike,

Hand 0: 47.113% 46.45% 00.67% 219506352 3145878.00 { 44 }
Hand 1: 52.887% 52.22% 00.67% 246797796 3145878.00 { QQ+, 33-22, AKs, AKo


Hand 0: 48.048% 47.83% 00.22% 226024056 1050378.00 { JJ }
Hand 1: 51.952% 51.73% 00.22% 244471092 1050378.00 { QQ+, 33-22, AKs, AKo }
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Old 07-22-2008, 04:50 PM   #55
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Re: Big stacks collide in $5,000 WSOP 6 max tourney. Wait for a better spot?

I just noticed this....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornell Fiji View Post
Because live hands, especially those where you stack off 90 bbs preflop with pocket fours,




Am I crazy for tanking for 3-5 minutes on this hand?
So you're saying you put him on 22 and slowrolled him? That would be such sick ownage.
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Old 07-22-2008, 04:56 PM   #56
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Re: Big stacks collide in $5,000 WSOP 6 max tourney. Wait for a better spot?

oops, as dan's sim makes clear, QQ-AA and 33-22 the gap between 44 and JJ is not 2%. But the point remains. And calling is unjustifiable.
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Old 07-22-2008, 04:58 PM   #57
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Re: Big stacks collide in $5,000 WSOP 6 max tourney. Wait for a better spot?

plz plz plz say you called and he showed 22, that would make my day!
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Old 07-22-2008, 04:59 PM   #58
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Re: Big stacks collide in $5,000 WSOP 6 max tourney. Wait for a better spot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornell Fiji View Post
What weighted range are you putting him on that JJ is that different from 44?
lol??????
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Old 07-22-2008, 07:32 PM   #59
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Re: Big stacks collide in $5,000 WSOP 6 max tourney. Wait for a better spot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingDan View Post
Ike,

Hand 0: 47.113% 46.45% 00.67% 219506352 3145878.00 { 44 }
Hand 1: 52.887% 52.22% 00.67% 246797796 3145878.00 { QQ+, 33-22, AKs, AKo


Hand 0: 48.048% 47.83% 00.22% 226024056 1050378.00 { JJ }
Hand 1: 51.952% 51.73% 00.22% 244471092 1050378.00 { QQ+, 33-22, AKs, AKo }
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Old 07-22-2008, 08:39 PM   #60
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Re: Big stacks collide in $5,000 WSOP 6 max tourney. Wait for a better spot?

Cornell,

You are right in that if his range is QQ+,AK then 44=almost JJ.
However, you are considering calling because you think he might be making a move with a weak hand, and JJ does a lot better against his 'move range', which is why given your own reads JJ is very different from 44. So if you are arguing that 44=JJ here then obv you shouldve instafolded 44, but you didnt. But then you shouldnt argue that they are the same, b/c...well, you get the idea.
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Old 07-22-2008, 10:34 PM   #61
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Re: Big stacks collide in $5,000 WSOP 6 max tourney. Wait for a better spot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornell Fiji View Post
Am I crazy for tanking for 3-5 minutes on this hand?
how is this anything but an instacall?
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Old 07-22-2008, 10:45 PM   #62
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Re: Big stacks collide in $5,000 WSOP 6 max tourney. Wait for a better spot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NHFunkii View Post
how is this anything but an instacall?
ICM considerations.
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Old 07-23-2008, 01:12 AM   #63
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Re: Big stacks collide in $5,000 WSOP 6 max tourney. Wait for a better spot?

Put yourself in UTG's shoes for a second.

Are you ever shoving 70 more BBs against someone's first 3 bet when you have a hand like QQ? KK? If so, what do you expect me to call with you shove?



Quote:
Originally Posted by luckychewy View Post
seriously?

EDIT: do u blaze?
I have not done drugs in several years... I miss the music the most I think.
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Old 07-23-2008, 01:19 AM   #64
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Re: Big stacks collide in $5,000 WSOP 6 max tourney. Wait for a better spot?

It's live poker, he can easily show up with QQ or KK here and honestly want you to fold.
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Old 07-23-2008, 07:40 AM   #65
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Re: Big stacks collide in $5,000 WSOP 6 max tourney. Wait for a better spot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbo View Post
It's live poker, he can easily show up with QQ or KK here and honestly want you to fold.
so is the fact that the opponent here is a very high level expert sweedish player lost on you?

Like any good player he is making his bets based on my anticipated reactin and how he wants me to react based on the cards he is holding. This guy never pushes 'because he has qeens' or 'because he doesn't want to risk hos stack vs the chipleader or anything like that. The opponent was very good at poker and he was making what he believed the best decision was based on my anticipated action, my hand range, and also the cards he held.

Because he has to put me on such a small calling range, shoving QQ/KK is beyond bad in is thinking on a level well below where this opponent was.
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Old 07-23-2008, 08:01 AM   #66
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Re: Big stacks collide in $5,000 WSOP 6 max tourney. Wait for a better spot?

You're overthinking it, Steve. He's not trying to 8th level a random (in his eyes) in a WSOP shorthanded event where people don't like folding. If he puts you on a calling range of QQ+ AK then 4betting with anything other than an extremely tight range here would be really dumb. If you think he's capable of shoving over your 3bet so ridiculously light that you'd consider calling with 44 then you shouldn't be 3betting pre without the stone nuts. It seems like you didn't have a plan at all when you raised.

The situation is not that tough and there are so many factors and levels going on to make this a good call that if either one of you is on the wrong level OR he just decided his QQ was good and he was going to shove then you're absolutely ****ed since you just played a pot for 5x the average stack with 44 pre.
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Old 07-23-2008, 08:02 AM   #67
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Re: Big stacks collide in $5,000 WSOP 6 max tourney. Wait for a better spot?

he probably figures you have that calling range, you repopped his UTG raise and you've been playing extremely tight. i tihnk your giving this foo way too much credit here.

edit - shaddap gobbo wouldja

edit2 - this hand also sounds like a classic case of spew after your carefully calculated totally should work move runs into the noodly mcbooders
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Old 07-24-2008, 12:25 PM   #68
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Re: Big stacks collide in $5,000 WSOP 6 max tourney. Wait for a better spot?

I finally figured out what happened here:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...d.php?t=257951
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Old 07-24-2008, 06:42 PM   #69
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Re: Big stacks collide in $5,000 WSOP 6 max tourney. Wait for a better spot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Terry View Post
I finally figured out what happened here:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...d.php?t=257951
el oh el
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Old 08-06-2008, 07:22 AM   #70
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Re: Big stacks collide in $5,000 WSOP 6 max tourney. Wait for a better spot?

what did villain have?
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Old 08-06-2008, 08:11 AM   #71
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Re: Big stacks collide in $5,000 WSOP 6 max tourney. Wait for a better spot?

um, read op, didnt read any responses, hope this is a level. you need to come back to level 1 and look at your hand. if your calling a 73BB shove preflop in this spot with a four in your hand, i want you at my table.
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Old 08-06-2008, 03:58 PM   #72
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Re: Big stacks collide in $5,000 WSOP 6 max tourney. Wait for a better spot?

LOL donkaments. how did he get a stake? wow
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Old 08-06-2008, 04:40 PM   #73
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Re: Big stacks collide in $5,000 WSOP 6 max tourney. Wait for a better spot?

cornell,

1. you're horrible at poker
2. i would probably flat call the first bet preflop
3. as played, fold
4. def wait for some better spots like a dude willing to ship u $30k up front on FTP... oooo, wait.
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Old 08-06-2008, 05:55 PM   #74
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Re: Big stacks collide in $5,000 WSOP 6 max tourney. Wait for a better spot?

^^^^ lol
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Old 05-28-2009, 09:51 PM   #75
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Re: Big stacks collide in $5,000 WSOP 6 max tourney. Wait for a better spot?

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/87...r-spot-255038/


edit: lol wrong thread
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