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In b4 absurd In b4 absurd

01-12-2010 , 03:55 PM
I realized it's been a long time since I've posted a hand. I've already 3-bet this villain once, as well as floated and bluffraised a turn unsuccessfully bvb. He's been active, I've been active, but nothing's really gotten to showdown other than the float/bluffraise/check river.

Thoughts on all streets are welcome.

Poker Stars $200+$15 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t25/t50 Blinds - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

EeeTee2008 (CO): t5705 M = 76.07
stieven (BTN): t3300 M = 44
SFisch4 (SB): t2955 M = 39.40
BBOY3110 (BB): t2730 M = 36.40
dannyboy2 (UTG): t3360 M = 44.80
Hero (UTG+1): t3350 M = 44.67
tartara2009 (MP1): t5170 M = 68.93
The Midget (MP2): t3460 M = 46.13

Pre Flop: (t75) Hero is UTG+1 with 7 9
dannyboy2 raises to t100, Hero raises to t275, 6 folds, dannyboy2 calls t175

Flop: (t625) T Q K (2 players)
dannyboy2 checks, Hero bets t375, dannyboy2 calls t375

Turn: (t1375) 4 (2 players)
dannyboy2 checks, Hero bets t780, dannyboy2 calls t780

River: (t2935) A (2 players)
dannyboy2 checks, Hero bets t1920 all in
01-12-2010 , 03:59 PM
Why?
01-12-2010 , 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pghfan987
Why?
Why not?
01-12-2010 , 04:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverScaredB
Why not?
because u r in EP with a terribad image against said villain

fold pre >>> anything else u can think of
01-12-2010 , 04:04 PM
oh, and

[x] absurd
01-12-2010 , 04:12 PM
I think when he flats the flop he already has a flush, since As,Js is raising on flop majority of time as well as two pair hands.
01-12-2010 , 04:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudeoflife
I think when he flats the flop he already has a flush, since As,Js is raising on flop majority of time as well as two pair hands.
What suited cards do you think he's flatting out of position to a 3-bet of his EP raise other than exactly AsJs?
01-12-2010 , 04:17 PM
i love it, so sickkkk dude

Villain has some sort of two pair by the time this gets to the river our image is crazy that we can show up with the jx a lot a set/flush/better two pair
01-12-2010 , 04:27 PM
Does this look like it could be something like JsJx or AxKxQx/Js to you? This guy is a really big losing player... (Full Tracking $140k prize money -26% ROI) which makes me think that he is not afraid to defend out of position PF (w/as light as Js/Tx). He could easily be trapping or drawing huge on the flop. The check call on the turn looks like nuts or royal/SFD
01-12-2010 , 04:27 PM
ehh not too crazy about it
id fold or flat pre before making this 3 bet
as played, not too crazy about ur betsizing/barrells
01-12-2010 , 04:27 PM
if he's a fish he nevr has the flush or str8 here
01-12-2010 , 04:28 PM
Given image, then this is spew imo. But at least you followed through and triple barrelled. No sense spewing unless you spew hard.

Im sure shoving that particular river gets some folds sometimes too.
01-12-2010 , 04:37 PM
I mean, the 3bet of UTG is almost always terribad. You can bet much smaller on this particular flop since you are only folding out the small pp playing for set value. The only thing I like is the river.
01-12-2010 , 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverScaredB
What suited cards do you think he's flatting out of position to a 3-bet of his EP raise other than exactly AsJs?
The utg minraise could easily be a suited connector. When you 3 bet small like that he might decide to see a flop with it. Probably unlikely since if he's decent he's going to raise a flush on the flop and definitely on the turn since it looks like you're willing to stack off.

It's more likely that he has AQ w/A spades and figures he's beat with outs to the nuts and checks it to get value from the offchance you are bluffing or have a hand like J's. Does he fold AQ to river shove? I think he has to.
01-12-2010 , 04:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dana Gordon
not too crazy about ur betsizing
Can you (or anyone else in this thread) provide reasons? This was the first point that stuck out to me as sort of interesting (in that it's not just "lol spew" but actually suggests something specific I did wrong in the hand).

Julio started to get somewhere with the terribad image stuff but didn't go far enough. What does my bad image change in the dynamics of this hand?

If I'm getting called wider, at what points am I getting called wider, and by how much?
01-12-2010 , 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NicholasJ
I mean, the 3bet of UTG is almost always terribad. You can bet much smaller on this particular flop since you are only folding out the small pp playing for set value. The only thing I like is the river.
Do you like the river play because of the card that peeled off? Do you think the shove is good on a brick river?
01-12-2010 , 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverScaredB
Can you (or anyone else in this thread) provide reasons?
I thought I did that?
01-12-2010 , 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverScaredB
Can you (or anyone else in this thread) provide reasons? This was the first point that stuck out to me as sort of interesting (in that it's not just "lol spew" but actually suggests something specific I did wrong in the hand).

Julio started to get somewhere with the terribad image stuff but didn't go far enough. What does my bad image change in the dynamics of this hand?

If I'm getting called wider, at what points am I getting called wider, and by how much?
As a light explanation, I think a fishy player like this is capable of calling down as light as an open ender even through the turn with the bluffing image that you pitched earlier.

Turn bet was pretty thin, he is very unlikely to put you on something like ss here and can be a little more comfortable justifying a drawing call on the turn (horribly, bc he is a fish). The river shove behind looks like a stack off, if you made your straight on the river or had the flush the whole way I think he would generally expect you to bet for value. The jam looks like your screaming for a fold. He is not folding a T here and could even consider a call w/Two pair
01-12-2010 , 04:54 PM
Re: 3bet: His raise/fold range isn't wide enough to turn an immediate profit. His raise/call range is v small and does some crushing of you.

His raise/call/check/fold range is 22-99 or so (though most dont have any raise/call range here at all), and will fold to a 1/3 pot bet.
01-12-2010 , 04:58 PM
Based on his previous results and the likelihood of fish to make unnecessary hero calls
01-12-2010 , 05:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NicholasJ
Re: 3bet: His raise/fold range isn't wide enough to turn an immediate profit. His raise/call range is v small and does some crushing of you.

His raise/call/check/fold range is 22-99 or so (though most dont have any raise/call range here at all), and will fold to a 1/3 pot bet.
Heh, I like the phrase "does some crushing of you." That's neat.

Your two statements strike me as inconsistent. He can't have a "v small" raise calling range that includes 22-99. If he's peeling that wide I'd argue that my 3-bet doesn't have to show an immediate profit because he's going to be c/fing so many flops that the chips he puts in the pot after my 3-bet are going to be coming back to me the vast majority of the time.

The 1/3rd pot bet is interesting if we're expecting him to be a level 1 thinker but I highly doubt anyone balances that sizing on this texture, plus with dickwaving history, I expect to get messed around with a lot.
01-12-2010 , 05:24 PM
What are you repping here? J9s?
01-12-2010 , 05:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Terry
What are you repping here? J9s?
EDIT

Gonna answer seriously because I kind of think this thread has pottential to be interesting. I can't imagine playing AsKx, sets, flopped flushes any differently, and probably play AxKx this way a lot too, as well as some Jx combos with and without spades.
01-12-2010 , 05:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverScaredB
Heh, I like the phrase "does some crushing of you." That's neat.

Your two statements strike me as inconsistent. He can't have a "v small" raise calling range that includes 22-99. If he's peeling that wide I'd argue that my 3-bet doesn't have to show an immediate profit because he's going to be c/fing so many flops that the chips he puts in the pot after my 3-bet are going to be coming back to me the vast majority of the time.

The 1/3rd pot bet is interesting if we're expecting him to be a level 1 thinker but I highly doubt anyone balances that sizing on this texture, plus with dickwaving history, I expect to get messed around with a lot.
Sorry for the ambiguity. I don't call 3bets OOP with any hand, though I guess I have seen some supposedly good players do it. The hands I expect a rando doing it with are AA, 22-JJ ( a pretty small range, esp when we consider that 99-JJ 4bet > 0%) Of those, 22-99 will fold to just over a minbet, and the rest are the ones that do the crushing.

With regard to the meta between you and villain, that is an argument for NOT 3betting him. Either you have altered his play with your image or you havent. If you haven't then the meta isnt effectively there yet, and I guess it could be justifiable for those purposes. If you have "opened him up" then it's time to stop 3betting him light, or at least pick better spots.

Regarding balancing ranges, there is no need to do so against randoms in sunday majors, since they are simply drooling on their keyboards. Rest assured, I am balanced against you though

Make a baby bet with your nuts and nut draws (b/3b) if you want to balance. Also, when he just calls your tiny bet, it tells you A TON relative to the amount risked, and means you can 3 barrel more effectively pretty often since stronger made hands want to protect.

A bit of a ramble, so I am sure it makes less sense than my first reply.
01-12-2010 , 05:46 PM
P.S. I like the new location.

      
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