AK vs crazy aggressive player in wcoop 42 - Page 2 - High Stakes MTT Strategy

(1) The 2 hands are not the same just because you would respond the same way to a substantial 4-bet. They play differently if UTG or the other player calls the 3-bet. I don't know about you but I would much rather have AK and an A hits than 72 and a 7 hits.
(2) The fact that you hold AK makes it far less likely you are up against AA or KK.

09-21-2010 , 06:11 AM

#27

alekhine11

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,637

Quote:

Originally Posted by donkey_king

3betting pre is fine lol. reads on op would help...

+1.

Picking 72 before AK to 3bet with is so so brave ; plenty of graveyards are packed with people of the kind.

09-21-2010 , 07:24 AM

#28

caddymix024

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,900

the reason we flat is we are never looking to get stacks in with one pair hands this deep

(almost never)

but yeah play a pot have fun splashin

09-21-2010 , 08:54 AM

#29

El Magico

centurion

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 127

I won't make a comment on this hand, cos i don't play this high and i certainly don't want to be levelling with you guys.

But i see there are so many different opinions by topplayers, that there isn't a ''right'' way to play this hand prelop.

But tell me, what is the most important strategic concept in this hand?

09-21-2010 , 09:08 AM

#30

mrussel2k1

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,117

Quote:

Originally Posted by salesbeast

Justin has squadoosh here IMO.

You're kidding right...? 30/60 pre antes and you think he is 4bing light OOP?

09-21-2010 , 09:15 AM

#31

raidalot

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 2,151

Quote:

Originally Posted by caddymix024

the reason we flat is we are never looking to get stacks in with one pair hands this deep

(almost never)

but yeah play a pot have fun splashin

Can't we 3-bet here but choose not to put all our chips in with one pair? (NB we have position)

I would say splashin' is more like flatting AK vs 2 players and inviting one or more others to join in. AK is a POS multiway.

09-21-2010 , 09:16 AM

#32

mrussel2k1

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,117

Quote:

Originally Posted by ndahlhoff10

3betting is good pre here and i'd like to 3bet lots of hands in this spot. I call now bc we're ahead a lot and have position and getting it in sucks

No & NO! What do you think we are ahead of to his 4bing range UTG at 30/60 pre antes?!? 3bing is the play, fold now

09-21-2010 , 09:19 AM

#33

mrussel2k1

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,117

Quote:

Originally Posted by caddymix024

the reason we flat is we are never looking to get stacks in with one pair hands this deep

(almost never)

but yeah play a pot have fun splashin

Who said anything about playing a pot and splashing? This is an easy iso 3b, if we are 4b by UTG opener his range is polarized and we can fold pre...

I doubt QQ is in his 4b range...

09-21-2010 , 09:30 AM

#34

Cryys

centurion

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 141

even if you are deep, I like 3bet here. to play HU or make them pay their worst A or small pair.

Now that the raiser UTG put a big 4bet. easy fold ,because we are deep.
but IMO , the fact that we are deep is relevant only after the 4bet, to fold AK, not before to just flat pre.

09-22-2010 , 01:19 AM

#35

Fainoadonkey

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 654

3bet is fine, faltting the open is fine, Calling the 4bet is a disaster

09-22-2010 , 01:29 PM

#36

ndahlhoff10

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 6,224

Are you guys folding qq here too?

09-22-2010 , 07:07 PM

#37

BBKPoker

adept

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 848

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fainoadonkey

3bet is fine, faltting the open is fine, Calling the 4bet is a disaster

09-23-2010 , 06:00 AM

#38

raidalot

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 2,151

Quote:

Originally Posted by ndahlhoff10

Are you guys folding qq here too?

QQ should not be 3-bet.

09-23-2010 , 10:03 AM

#39

aseHigh

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 11,869

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeverScaredB

lol nope

Quote:

Originally Posted by ndahlhoff10

pretty sure boosted j is a sick hs cash player and op is a tag mtt reg

this and quite bad in spots

09-24-2010 , 02:25 AM

#40

drew5927

adept

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 959

Quote:

you should be flatting pretty much your entire range this deep

this has got to be one of the strangest ideas i have ever encountered. u didn't give stats but boosted j is a psycho who would incinerate a thousand dollars just for the novelty. folding is obv very standard but there comes a point where you just aren't folding this to someone, IMO

and dude ^^^ its his first post quit bashing him you heartless twit. never leave op

09-24-2010 , 04:40 AM

#41

Sinking Ship

adept

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,153

I'm in the flat pre camp and I'm probably not raising anywhere througout the hand without at least 2 pair.

09-24-2010 , 04:46 AM

#42

Soepgroente

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 4,083

I'd flat pre without the flatter but now there's too much value in a 3bet. Either taking it down or getting flatted are good results. Folding to 4bet seems necessary, I doubt most people even have KK in this spot.

09-24-2010 , 06:51 PM

#43

FearToxin90

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 577

Quote:

Originally Posted by caddymix024

you should be flatting pretty much your entire range this deep

This. You can 3bet only AA if you think you won't get exploited. I'd rather see a 3 or 4 way pot with AK vs worse hands than isolate Boosted J preante UTG range while folding out worse hands.

09-24-2010 , 10:35 PM

#44

Fainoadonkey

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 654

Quote:

Originally Posted by ndahlhoff10

Are you guys folding qq here too?

Not really trying to play monster pot with QQ this early.

I would not even 3bet QQ here unless u feel like he is flatting pretty wide and even then u r prolly gonna b in alot of tough spots if he decideds to conitnue or show aggression post flop.

09-25-2010 , 01:45 AM

#45

betgo

banned

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 28,590

I don't agree that 3-betting this early is bad in general. However, I don't like 3-betting AK against a tricky aggressive UTG raiser.

09-25-2010 , 03:05 AM

#46

ndahlhoff10

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 6,224

i don't understand this thread. Surely qq+ ak are standard 3bets, along with many bluffs.

09-25-2010 , 03:50 AM

#47

The Bear Jew

banned

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 2,370

good advice ITT.

09-25-2010 , 06:50 AM

#48

Todd Terry

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 16,301

Shove.

09-25-2010 , 06:57 AM

#49

mbe3

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,969

TT on bluffing AK

09-25-2010 , 01:42 PM

#50

betgo

banned

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 28,590

Think villain is often bluffing. Does he really 4-bet large like this with AA/KK? What hands does he 4-bet for value?

Hard to flat with this hand. Think shove is possible. Might fold even though I don't really believe him.

I wouldn't 3-bet here, but don't see why you shouldn't 3-bet in general this deep. Think you can bluff with suited connectors a lot. Flatting AA/KK loses a lot of value. Can also sometimes 3-bet strong hands and fold to a 4-bet. Never 3-betting seems really passive.

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