Sorry, I mixed up some terms. A picture seems like it would help:



The outside of each of my index fingers (towards the thumbs) are just touching the outside of the thin smooth strip in the knurling on either side of the bar. When I started, I was a middle finger on the smooth part kind of guy (hands closer together) which is more shoulder/tri dominant I think. Over the years I have moved my grip further and further out and it feels better than ever now.

If I'm reading your post correctly the outside of your hands (i.e. the side near your pinkies) are just touching the smooth break in the knurling? That seems very narrow to me, others should certainly weigh in though. It could be true that I have a superwide grip because my arms are so long, but I don't think that's the case.

Hmmm, yeah, I think on that picture my hands would be just inside that smooth break in the knurling. But that seems narrow from looking at the picture. Thanks for the suggestion and help!

If I really am taking an unnecessarily narrow grip maybe that's affecting me. I asked my g/f as much last bench session but everything she knows about bench she learned from me (blind leading the....).

I've only done bench once or maybe twice over at Cha's and not for several months so it's quite possible a wider grip is something I need to explore and could be limiting my bench performance.

No worries; it's just nice to be in a position to give advice on something in this forum, as opposed to suckling everyones' teats all the time.

From the SS wiki regarding benching -- I was going to post "try a hand position which gets your forearms roughly perpendicular to the ground at the bottom of the lift" but wanted to make sure it wasn't broscience:

http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wi...he_Bench_Press

Yeah, that's what I've been shooting for. Forearms forming ~90 degree angle with the bar and floor straight up and down. But, that certainly doesn't mean it's what I'm doing.

Your grip isnt limiting you. Your mind is. You're thinking about too many things during all your lifts to give it your all imo. It will come to you eventually. Keep doing everything and your muscle memory will kick in to the point where you can focus on pushing or pulling as hard as you can instead of thinking knees out, back flat, elbows in, touch the bar here on my chest, etc....

Not sure why you think your press is all that bad. 92.5 when you're benching 160ish and squatting 200ish is fairly good, certainly not bad.

Chalk: Not allowed at my gym but I do it anyways. I just wear all white and keep my chalk in a zip lock bag in my locker. It isn't a perfect system but it works pretty well. I only chalk on work sets and I just make sure my plates are loaded up so I don't leave any evidence except on the bar which I wipe down.

I don't chalk on presses though and I'm just at some commercial gym. Try finding massive amounts of intensity. Headphones with music that gets you pumped up crazy works for me. I also convince myself that whatever I'm going to be doing is going to be ******edly easy.

Free your mind and your lifts will follow.

That's certainly a big part of it, I'm sure, but I would be very, very surprised if what he was doing wasn't more of a CGBP based on his grip width. Admittedly, changing his grip would have him instantly benching 225, but having your pinkies inside of the smooth part for a 6'0'-6'1" individual is almost certainly too narrow. It's not like you've actually seen him bench in person or anything.

When I first saw him bench his elbows were flaring out really bad - his arms were ~80 degrees from his body, so I want to discourage a wider grip until his triceps are doing more of the work and he's able to keep his elbows in. Flaring the elbows that far is a recipe for shoulder injuries, and a wider grip encourages that.

Fair enough sir.

Seems like we need some bench videos Yugo!

Bench videos to come sirs. Thanks for the well-wishing and WIM inspiration.

10/11 log

Open-gym pickup basketball day! Cliffs at bottom.

Well, I gotta say, whoever invented pickup basketball is a hero imo. It's just such a different game than division C rec league. This organized pickup game runs from 7-9 and two courts are available so I doubt there will ever be too much sitting.

First game was to 11 by 1s. And get this THEY ONLY SCORE BY 1s THAT'S RIGHT 3s DON'T COUNT FOR **** BABY! This is pretty much my dream scenario. I literally double fist pumped when they told me that. It was like and early birthday present imo.

I think I was blown after the first 3 possessions or something running too hard, I definitely am not in elite cardio shape. But, w/e, we were able to win a close game on the strength of our fast-breaks at the start. All other games were to 8 points (by 1s).

I'm not sure it's worth it to document each game, plus I can't necessarily remember exactly what happened in each game. Hell, I'm not positive of how many games I exactly played but I think I went 6-1 on the evening. Some highlights:

I blocked (I basically never get real blocks) one of the better players when he had a breakaway. I must have channeled Tayshaun Prince & Lebron James. He stuffed me at the other end from behind when I got an O-board and tried to put it back. Meh.

I had trouble scoring in the post as due to the 1 point for every shot scoring it would get packed in. However, not as packed as it should be. There were MANY 3 point shots taken while playing, shooters are just too used to hanging out right behind the line for spacing purposes. I had a great time trying to goad some of the guys I was guarding into 3 point shots. One guy was a v good shooter and my teammate was like "gotta guard the 3 on him" and I was like "worst shot in this game" although he did hit 1 of them (I couldn't get out to content), he missed like 3 while I was guarding him, trying to give him just enough space to try them.

Between maybe the 3rd and 4th game I noticed blood on my shirt and spent the time in between games to desperately look for where I was bleeding but couldn't find it so assumed it was someone else's blood. Then right as we were going to pass it in to start that game I noticed blood all over my right pinky. Good thing I keep athletic tape with me. The rest of that game, however, I had blood oozing out of it all over. Kind of absurd. Before the game after that I had a rest (we won 2 games so had to sit) and washed it/dried it properly.

In the last game we extended it to 11 and after a fast start we were down 8-7 or something I think. I hadn't been running tons as I had gotten so winded earlier on but really wanted to win that game. I went by the guy guarding me (smaller and quicker? guy I guess) and got a layup. Then I got a defensive stop and rebound. Then got an O-board and putback. Then the next time down fed our most athletic guy after he made eye contact with me for a backdoor layup. I think we just posted up our biggest mismatch for the last play to win that one. I was pretty pumped when I decided to take over that game I got lucky and did.

If I had to guess my line/game was something like 1-2 pts, 1-2 assists, 2-3 rebounds. It's really hard to say since we were playing so many little 8 point games, but that seems right imo.


Cliffs: first organized pickup game where I live and I played well. Need to improve: conditioning & offensive post scoring ability.

10/12 log

Correction to my last log: should have been 10/10, not 10/11.

So I did have a day of rest before....dun dun dun: Deadlift Day! Time to put the "dead" into deadlift imo.

DL
145x5x2
195x3x1
195x3 warmup form check
225x2 warmup form check (my grip slipped on the 2nd pull, I did the rest of my sets with straps)
265x2 work set

I had my g/f tape the form checks so I could watch them to try and build up some WIM. On my second pull of 265 I really was surprised it went up so "easily," although you can tell it wasn't the smoothest pull. I do think my back generally speaking is WAY better than it was. Of course, that could just be b/c I'm only doing 2 reps at heavy weights.

Speed DLs (90 secs in between sets)
215x3x6
215x3 7/8 speed set
215x3 8/8 speed set

I had my g/f tape the last ones as that's when I assumed my form might break down into "ZOMG WTF IS HIS BACK DOING?!" But, I was decently happy. There is some rounding I can spot but hopefully upon review, this is within acceptable limits.

My butt isn't staying down but I am getting my butt to start MUCH lower than in the past (lacrosse ball on my butt ftw imo).

Circuit (90 secs in between, 2-3 min rest between circuits) x 3
RDL - 110x8
DB row - 55 DBs x 8
Chins - BWx4
GMs - 65x8

Good lord I was spent when going around doing the circuit. I think I'm starting to become acquainted with what a "real strength workout" is. One guy was like "you know, you should rest more if you're this spent" but I mean, I'm doing relatively light stuff on the circuit so I just focused on form and kept going.

I'm really pumped I got through this week considering I did back-to-back days of bball after not playing for so long. I'd like to say next week may be easier. But....um. I'll just continue to SMR the **** out of myself and pump the WIMzzors for next week.

Dont let your low back lose extension until the weight hits the floor.

It is not going to get easier next week

Which ones did you notice that was bad in?

Btw, I was trying to let the weight down a bit further before bending my knees too much to try and not ram the bar on my knees. So I was concentrating on that more when lowering the bar. I probably won't be next time.

Well, the easier part will be the basketball is what I'm hoping. And maybe get a bit more sleep. I woke up today thinking "oh man, I am not feelin' any client meetings" and I had to run 2 today: one pretty intense/high stress, and the other went on 2.5x as long as it should have. So I wasn't exactly in tip-top shape when I entered the gym.

When I was at Dr. K's yesterday he said "sure you should have played 2 days of basketball in a row right away?" when he was feelin' around in my back, shoulder, and neck. He didn't tell me not to, just, you know, I doubt he cautions relatively healthy people too often to consider pushing themselves less.

Both heavy reps your back started to round a several inches before the weight hit the floor.

yeah, he hasnt typically told me not to do too much, except for after the back injury and he doesnt like the bench press for people with shoulder problems. He doesnt preach about it though. After he worked on me yesterday, he said I could go back to what I was doing right away.

Another friend of mine who sees Dr K, Bob (he helped us move the reverse hyper), is a marathon runner. He said Dr K told him he probably wasnt going to be able to run a marathon due to calf issues, but he did anyway after Dr K worked on him.

Obv I am in no way qualified to comment on DL form, but

Finally someone else ****ed the bunny on a youtube post! Feels nice to no longer be alone in my ineptitude.

pause at the instant you start trying to pull. scaps are clearly behind the bar. now resume. bar don't care. pause again when the bar actually moves. scaps now above bar. now bar responds. there's no reason to setup like that. really your whole body is too far from the bar. the bar path as it breaks is not straight up but at an angle back toward you because you're trying so hard to pull without being over the bar.

also i now see how you are banging up your knees. the second rep was decent but the first rep definitely had some early knee bend on the descent.

I don't get it?

I read your ball write up, sweet. The no 3 pointers is kinda cool.

I think I've grown to like em a little more tho. I've gotten a lot more efficient and rebounding and putting it in, so if they take the shot it's not awful. Plus like you said it can help a lot with spacing. And there's nothing like a 2 pointer to start an epic rally from a deficit that leads to a win. Whatevs

Hmmm, I still firmly believe that my style of play is 10x more valuable without 3 pointers. At least in pickup. In an actual game I do think the middle would get too packed without being able to space the floor.

The reason it's just so great for 3 pointers to be worth 1 point is SHOOTERS STILL TAKE A BUNCH OF 3 POINTERS. So anyone who doesn't shoot 3s immediately becomes MUCH more efficient. I think this is a very huge difference. Added to the fact that I think I adjust really well to rule changes like this and you can probably see why I'm super pumped.

I do reserve the right to change my mind if the middle gets too packed once players adjust and I'm just getting hacked 5 times on every rebound I get, lol.

Video wasn't rotated correctly.

Ahhh, yeah I guess YouTube was still processing my change since I didn't notice that when checking the video after reading your comment. It's great they have easy editing features but I guess it takes a while if you change several videos at once.

Lol I know, you pointed it out when it happened to me earlier in my very first video post. I was shamed . . .

Lol. Yeah I need to read the last few comments more carefully. I've been slammed today at work and every time I am going to really study my videos again and look for the exact moments Cha & Miles are talking about, I realize I need to keep working rather than watching videos of myself in the gym.

But it's easy to type out responses here and there that don't require the minutes of careful observation.

Wow, I'm really glad you mentioned this, I should have noticed. It appears I'm getting my butt lower by basically shifting my weight way back (so my shoulder is behind the bar) and then my hips drive up when I start my pull I guess to get my shoulder back over the bar to actual start moving it. Weird. Well, just goes to show that your scapula has to be over the bar when actually pulling.

I guess I'll go back to not worrying about getting my butt too far down and instead keep myself over the bar to start.

Yup. I was even concentrating on not doing that so I'm pretty sure I developed that habit accidentally. Probably b/c it *felt* easier to bend my knees when lowering the bar to the floor when all I was focusing on was keeping my back tight.

You can go down faster on the descent too imo. No need to do a lot of work on the negative. I agree with everything miles said.