I'm not sure it's quite in that territory yet but thanks!

Yeah, I'm sure I'm a notch down from the level you were playing at but most of my best skills (rebounding and junky shots around the rim) are much harder to do vs. big guys that hang out in those areas.

Very cool and encouraging!! How much weight did you gain? Actually, I'll also go look at your log if you have one when I have the time and comb through it and put questions in there perhaps.

U G H. I have a friend who blew his ACL in college and now plays pickup and rec league ball. It definitely is something you can come back from. Hell, that guy on the Spurs has zero ACLs and plays with the best. But the situation of a weekend rec player is a bit different, .

Interesting. This is the one thing I'm not doing b/c I'm not really sure how to do it at my gym. I mean, my gym has 50+ bosu things for bosu classes but only 1 squat rack. But my other gym options are either WAY more expensive, or significantly more inconvenient to the point I'd likely just quit my program. Hrrrm. I could try doing them next to the squat rack with foam padding on the ground where I was planning to release the barbell.

I'll give this some thought in the next few weeks...

Thanks for the encouragement.

Tbh I am so far extremely surprised at the lack of trolling in this thread. I mean, I know that thremp guy or whoever is apparently banned (the first time I visited this forum a couple years ago I saw 234234 posts by him and just stopped reading lol) but so far name-dropping Cha has apparently done the trick, .

Snipe,

Hmm, okay so your log doesn't really have anything directly to do with basketball or include workouts before you had to stop playing.

Besides PCs is there anything you recommend I do that will help more with bball? I'm very open to just drills or non-lifting things as well. As I have like a 0" vertical anything involving that would be good too I guess but I'd imagine given my age and white-man hops, the dunk ship has already sailed. Still, it'd be nice to get my hands on a @#$@# ball instead of my finger tip vs. the tall guys.

I'd think box jumps would be good for that. I think there are some people doing stuff like that - Doug & GKA maybe? Does your gym have plyo boxes?

Busto has a freeroll prop bet to dunk & he's 5-6. I dont know if he'll come close or not, but he might have some worthwhile advice.

I think ISF plays basketball and he's very strong. Maybe check his log out too.

Kyle probably has good advice for you as well. He plays baseball, not basketball, but he's a very knowledgeable trainer who runs his own gym & trains athletes.

Logs don't get trolled a lot here - unless the log is ******ed, in which case it's a free-for-all

Do a beginner program from Vertical Jump Bible.

Yugo,

I was always a leaper (played volleyball for years, HS, Club, Junior Olympics which isn't as impressive as it sounds, but I like to mention it ) and could jump out of the gym when I was younger / smaller / etc. That said, the most important thing you can do for hoops (or any sport tbh) is get your footwork right. You can't jump if you can't move your feet correctly.

There are tons of vids out there discussing different things, but being able to thoughtlessly, correctly lay the ball of with either hand of the correct foot is something a lot of my non league rec friends just can't do. If you want to get better at hoops (which I guess is your goal?) get your footwork down starting there.

On the other hand, back when I was dunking nasty, I was a 2 foot jumper, and this basic volleyball approach footwork is how I jump to this day if I want to get up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xEQn...eature=related

While chicks don't really squat low or snap their backs up / throw their arms up nearly as explosively as guys, you can still see how a power clean works a lot of the muscle groups used in a 2 footed jump.

I also did strength shoes / jump soles in college for a while and they really work, though they're hard on the knees. Things like box jumps were included in the work outs, as was jumping rope, rim touches, bounding, skipping, etc - just a ****ton of jumping really so idk if the shoes really did anything, but the program worked.

Oh - so as far as weight gain goes - I'm 217 now (from 185) - so I'm significantly heavier. It took cutting out ALL cardio to really get bigger, and I'm certainly carrying a bit more fat that I like - but for now, I just want to get stronger (sadly my friends all make fun of me for being fat these days, but w/e).

As for the hoops comment - I've pretty much retired. I don't have a job atm, nor do I have health insurance (I know, I know - I'm ******ed, but I'm hoping I can get a job soon and the benefits that come with it - or at least some money) - so I'm pretty much not playing hoops until I get that figured out. So ya - I won't be posting much about hoops anytime soon. =/

Good log. You have similar goals and training to me. I really like box jumps and broad jumps for developing some power, but you might want to wait until you are a little stronger so you can just focus on upping your squat for now. You are totally approaching things the right way though.

4/27 log

I had somewhere to be after the gym today so tried to go at a brisker pace. I also forgot to bring what I had done last time so I couldn't remember much weight I was supposed to lift. So....that didn't turn out as I would have planned.

Foam rolling - ~10 mins.
mid+upper back
lats
side of legs
quads

Lacrosse ball - ~2 mins
pecs
calves

Neither pecs or calves seemed as messed up as my legs. I will get pointers from Cha on this now that I have a lacrosse ball though.

Mobility warmup - ~7 mins (and did all of the things from memory this time)

Activation - ~7 mins

Squats:

45x5x1
65x5x1
95x5x1
115x5x3

My knee cave was a lot better I think (but still a bit). However this was the same weight I did last time. And I certainly wouldn't say it was super easy. I feel like my major muscle groups could go quite a bit higher ASAP but my support-type muscles obviously can't doing good form.

Press:
45x5x1
65x3x1
85x1x1 (didn't feel too easy and was 10lbs instead of 5 lbs more than last time I did press, oops)
80x4x3

This was the one thing I went up in weight on as I would have planned. Could barely get the 4th one up on my last set and my form was likely crap (some extra swaying going on). But I did accidentally go to 85lbs before going to 80lbs. Upon review, I did 75lbs last time so can't complain.

DLs:
135x5x1
155x5x1
185x5x1

Yeah, I did the exact same weights that I did last time, accidentally, just like for squats. It did seem like I could go higher (possibly a lot higher in a hurry) BUT I'm really wary of my lower back and restraining it or something. I can tell my form isn't perfect still.

All in all I'm not too unhappy although I really need to make sure to review what weights I'm going up to before setting out to the gym. Or better yet, bring a small notepad that can fit in my pocket.

I have some other questions about Snipe's comments and basketball-specific stuff but will hold off on those as I should really be working, .

Umm, not what comes up in google under that search. My gym does have these adjustable step things.

Just wait until I decide to (or Cha forces the issue) start posting on diet, .

Do you have experience with this or know of other posters on the forum?

I played volleyball in HS all 4 years (each year I got a different back injury) lol. The way I jump is the way I learned in VB for a block or hit. I still don't get high though.

I agree with this and since I lack coaching I have self-taught myself some of this from just watching NBA. For instance ~1 year ago I decided to get better around the rim with my L hand and while I can't go up as strong on that side, in some ways I'm more comfortable with those moves than with my R hand now (most of my R hand "moves" involve me falling away from the rim if I don't have time/space for a quick layup).

Perhaps at this point it may even be better to just go home and spend gym time of once a week just to review videos and construct some sort of footwork & conditioning program to follow.

Yup, that's something I'm familiar with.

Yeah. Well it can't really not work for me. I'm 6' tall and have never touched the rim. Everyone I've ever played with never believes me when I say that but it's embarrassingly true.

If anything, I'd like to be lighter. Or what I really probably mean is less body fat and stronger. I don't really care about getting bigger.

Ahh, bummer. I was unemployed for a while and got insurance on my own (still have it as my job doesn't have v good benefits). So unless you have significant health issues you should be doing that anyway. I know from a $EV perspective insurance is sometimes hard to swallow, but from a lifeEV perspective given likely and potential variance, I really do believe it's important (not just b/c my mom says so, ldo).

Thanks! I will obviously now check out your log. When you say "a little stronger" what does that functionally mean?

If I'm 170lbs, 6' tall, what kind of squat makes sense to you intuitively given your experience? Knowing this may also help me create some sort of real goal as I feel more pro at doing the actual lifts.

GHRs are supposed to help your vertical jump: http://articles.elitefts.com/article...ute-ham-raise/

If your gym has one of those, you might want to try adding them to the end of some of your workouts.

I'm pretty sure my gym doesn't have that.

Also, I just read an article about "being a man" (lol) you linked to (written by Rooney? or something for those sadiv sets or w/e) in your log that "discourages" the fad of GHRs vs. Back Extensions. Fyi, .
(btw it's unclear imo if he really dislikes them or just thinks they aren't any more useful)

I didnt remember what you were talking about. I went back to that Sadiv set article and it had a link to a previous one that had this in it:

Glute-Ham Raise vs. 45-Degree Back Extension

Back extensions are a great exercise, especially when you hold as many plates as you can across your chest.

Too bad some "efficiency expert" discovered that by just having a glute-ham raise bench you didn't need a back extension or a lying leg curl machine because the GHR effectively trains both knee flexion and hip extension. So now, both the back extension and leg curl are falling into exercise obscurity.

Turns out the joke is on them. Glute-ham raises are difficult and about as comfortable as a muay thai kick to the quads, so no one does them. So now, no one does anything, except of course occasionally working the triceps while wiping the dust off the GHR.

If I sent you a direct link to the article with that in it, I apologize. Something else in there must have caught my eye & that part did not.

idkwtf point he is trying to make here, but I think this guy's credibility has taken a hit in my eyes. fwiw, I dont like back extensions (risky for the low back imo). A lot of people in this forum do back extensions and like them, but I dont. Leg curls are a useless exercise imo. Read this by Eric Cressey: http://ericcressey.com/leg-curls-are-for-wankers <--- notice the name of the article, lol.

I've never done GHRs on a real GHR bench (I've tried ghetto ones and those are lolhard), but I know people who have and the stuff I've read prior to this says they're one of the best posterior chain exercises you can do. Ask G4S or kyleb what they think of them.

You dont have to do GHRs.... I have already shown you a lot of other good posterior chain exercises. GHRs are very good too imo.

Yeah I thought you might have something to say about that. You linked directly to the "part II" which talked about different things to "train like a man" including talking about sadiv sets (which wasn't this guy's idea obv but he was discussing them). Anyway, I was bored at work and thought the title "train like a man" or whatever it was seemed v silly so I had to read the first part too. It was the first I heard of a GHR so when you then posted about it, that's what I thought of, .

I was pretty sure leg curls were rubbish (I've done tons of them and they've done basically nothing, which makes me wonder why I did enough to say I did "tons" of them, ).

I do back extensions and I think they're fine but I keep my back pretty straight and never have tried to do 5 rep sets or anything that low (usually 10-12 rep sets). I wouldn't really like to try them for 3-5 reps as it just seems like it would "feel" like a bad idea.

Here's a general tip for internet articles: if someone named Tate, Rippetoe, Cressey, Robertson or Gentilecore wrote it, it probably very good. I'me sure there's lots of other good advice out there, but there's also a lot of crap. Its kind of like some of the poker strategy posts on 2+2. You have to get to know a few things before you can really tell who you should trust.

Yeah - IDK man. If you want to video tape yourself shooting around (like - actually making moves you would if there was a defender) - I'll take a look at it. I mean, if you have jump footwork down, and you grab the ball and lay it up easy with either hand jumping off the correct foot, I'd suggest practicing your triple threat. I think I learned years back from a Converse triple threat instructional vid, but I'm sure there are a zillion others out there. That, post footwork (being able to hook a guy with your baseline leg and spin OR shoot a power hook automatically makes you a threat in the post as nobody really knows how to defend), etc.

Those are excellent ideas. I'm going to watch video on triple threat and post footwork (leg hooking and spinning). Right now my moves are these herky jerky falling away hook shots mainly. Or this really unreliable pseudo-fadeaway that only works against shorter guys b/c I can't jump, lol.

Yeah - so I'd HIGHLY suggest you take all shots falling away from the basket OUT OF YOUR GAME IMMEDIATELY!!! The fact is, even some of the worlds most elite athletes don't have the skill to hit them consistently. What percentage of shots in high level basketball are attempted, let along MADE falling away from the hoop???

Idk what you're built like really, or how much contact you like, or how aggressive you are personality-wise (which makes a difference as to how much contact you're willing to create ime), but for a friend of mine who was stocky, short, and uncoordinated hoops wise (obv I'm NOT drawing any parallels - just relaying an anecdote) - I basically coached him to use his ass and weight to make up for his height. I made him play more with his back to the basket and instead of falling away, make a power dribble, bump the guy off of you, and turn and shoot with the newly found space.

Same thing goes for the triple threat. If you're a legitimate threat to drive by and get to the rack, the defender has to respect your jab step giving you room to square up and knock down a jumper (this means that you need to practice triple threat, jab step, take one dribble either way and get to the hoop from the 3 point line. Sounds tough - but important).

As for post moves, I love em. The little leg hook / drop step / spin / reverse lay up along the baseline is pretty unstoppable. The only problem with being good in the post is that most pickup players don't want to win. They might think they do, but they don't - or they're too dumb to know that their approaches aren't winning ones. They'd rather dribble into trouble and jack up jumpers with a hand in their face than dump the ball into the post for a sure bucket. They just want to score the ball, period. Post work is also ugly sometimes, which makes other players discount the bucket and more reluctant to dump it down low. I realize this is a bit too much of my 'the world is completely ******ed' theory, so I'll stop - but I guess the cliffs are that you should work on triple threat if you're at all athletic and have quick feet, good eyes, can dribble, etc. imo.

I recently started doing SS and I play pickup basketball at the gym there too.

If you play basketball and lift weights at the same gym, any thoughts on how to do both at the same time?

I feel like if I lift first, it'll mess up my shooting since my muscles will be sore or tired. But when I play a bunch of basketball first, I get tired before I do my lifts, which affects my ability to consistently increase.

Separate your days / workouts ideally. If you insist on doing both, I'd suggest lifting at the expense of hoops, otherwise you aren't going to push yourself to make gains.

4/29 log

I got my foam roller and chalk in the mail today! Wooo. I now have 2342343243 more chalk than I need, lol. And I'm pretty sure the weight I'm lifting doesn't require chalk. But w/e.

So at the gym I used their crappy foam roller and did a decent warmup. Then went and played 3x3 bball (there were somehow other ppl at the gym who wanted to play!) for 1.5 hours. But, okay, no one was particularly good. Most were good shooters I guess. I didn't lose a game no matter what team I was on and at the end we were winning 11-0 and were up 18-0 before resetting.

I was getting > 50% of all available rebounds (it really felt like 80% but I'm going to assume that can't be correct) but on offense my best move was shooting a 15 footer (wtf?!) which just shouldn't be right. I think I've regressed offensively more and more due to shooting 2-3 times per game on my Rec team.

But it was soooo much more fun than whatever else I would have done, :grin:. Plus, it's kind of cool when the other team keeps rotating guys onto you and multiple people attempt to box you out (poorly but w/e).

Hmm, well my shots are all kinda junky near the hoop or I seem to get blocked. And many are a high degree of difficulty (which pisses ppl off when I play 1on1). But they're still hard to get off in traffic and it's not really like I want to shoot like that. I just don't know any better .

Oh man, I wish you were in MN so you could give me pointers. I think you'd enjoy it. Let me put it this way, I probably lead my rec league in bruises, blood, and loose balls on the floor. Getting physical isn't my problem. My problem is on offense if I get physical and guys get physical back, then I have an even harder time doing anything! Lol, so I try to be sneaky physical. And on defense we play zone and I don't play center so, meh, usually not much to be physical about.

I'd LOVE to know how to get better at bumping, using my butt (it used to be bigger and stronger), and etc. I think I could be huge on the high post as it's within my range, I often have guards on me I can back down, and I'm better than average at passing out of it to shooters or cutters. But this doesn't work if ppl just get up in my grill and I don't know what to do.

Yeah, I have zero triple thread. I have a very predictable shot, it's not very quick release, I don't feel comfortable dribbling left, and the last time I went by my defender I bricked the layup b/c I was so surprised I had a layup available, lol.

Nope. I win pickup basketball. I do as much as I can possibly think of to maximize my teams chances. I make no bad passes full court, I don't jack up shots almost to a fault, I set hard screens, etc. I'd love to have a bruising, ugly, methodical sneaky post game to eat up single coverage with. Of course, the guys jacking it up still might not give me the ball, but at least I'd get high % shots when they forget to, .

What's weird is my coworker is kinda like me just better and has an excellent, quick, post game that's just super simple and works really well for him. But he is awful at giving me help or pointers. He basically can only say "just let it flow, and go to the rim fast." Which doesn't help me at all.

Yeah, I dno if I can dribble or how athletic I am. But that sounds like a good idea since I'm not that tall and only weigh 170 atm.

Great advice! This log is really getting interesting imo, .

Squats, DLs & eating a lot more protein will make your butt a much more effective weapon.

Nice posts here Snipe!

post vids of you playing ball

and don't worry about playing the post because snipe is right, you won't get the ball in pickup games

box squats & DLs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eNgisW_T00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20gqwdfh9RQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxPehV_Kd8w

4/30 log

Worked out at Cha's glorious basement gym. As you can see above, there is video from the lifts I did to prove it!

I did all the rolling/mobility/activation stuff but realized I was doing 2 things wrong, and completely missing another thing I thought I was doing, lol. Cha sent me home with some PDFs so I can study all that stuff on my own if I care. But I should be doing all of it okay now.

So for the lifts:

Box squats:
As cha was doing them, and we suspect I'm all Quads and nothing else in my legs, it seemed trying these would help my form & glutes & hams.

At first I just fell on the stupid box until we put like 5 plates to make it higher. Then once I got it down (and realized my knee hurt not b/c of form but b/c I fell on it at bball the day before) I got the hang of them and was able to remove each plate.

So basically, after 234234324 reps of box squats with no weight, I did:

45x5x1
65x5x1
95x5x1
115x5x3

You can see videos above of a couple of my 115 sets. I struggled on the last one going up at the bottom, I think I had to use my quads to bail myself out. Hopefully I keep getting used to this one and getting stronger!

Bench Press:
Cha monitored my form on this one (and I got to see him do some on the floor /w chainz) but I felt pretty comfortable right away.

I forget the weights I did exactly but it ended up being something goofy like this:

45x5x1
100x5x1
120x5x1
130x2x1
125x4x1
120x5x1

DLs:
135x5x1
155x5x1
175x5x1
200x5x1

My form seemed a bit better and then on the last one my lower back wasn't straight at all (you can see the third video link above) . Gotta go study the vid Cha posted above.

I have a basketball game today but unfortunately no good way to tape it. I'd love to have tape of myself playing to pick apart (and for you all to pick apart) maybe I'll figure out a way to get that done. But until then, I'll likely stick to my 3-5 shots a game and just concentrate on D & o-boards.