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Old 09-11-2020, 08:14 AM   #51
Renton555
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Re: Renton Rebuilds

Friday 11 Sep

Block Pulls: 95x10, 135x5 x2 sets, 185x1 snap city

Bench Press: 95x5, 135x4, 145x3 x2 sets, 165x3 x2 sets @8.5, 175x2 x2 sets @10, 145x5 x3 sets

***

This session was a day late because I had to spend all day yesterday at a job site that was 90 minutes away from my gym. Even with the extra rest day my back is still snapped up. I think it's time to regroup, programming-wise. I'm going to be a total bench monkey and do bro work for lower body. I'm planning to not squat over 135 for a month and not deadlift over 135 for two months.

I'm considering trying the Candito 6 week advanced bench program, which is 5 days per week. The bench-related stuff should take under 30 minutes, so gonna do sub 1-hour sessions with lower body work on two of the days, back work on one of the days, and add in some steady state cardio on the other two days. It will be roughly the same cumulative gym time as I did with 3 days a week, but I'll be able to get up at 5:30 instead of 4:30, albeit getting up early 4 days during the week instead of 3.
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Old 09-13-2020, 09:30 PM   #52
Renton555
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Re: Renton Rebuilds

Week 4 Diet:


Kind of an interesting week, and a turning point. Not that my diet was particularly great this week. My food choices were by and large awful (80g protein on Friday). But I did manage to keep a lid on things for the most part and I was frankly shocked at how low the calories were at week's end. I still have a little bit to go on calories (I'd like to get under 1700) and I have a long way to go on food quality/protein numbers.

I still haven't been supplementing protein much. I used to have no problem downing a scoop-of-gold-standard-a-day but now it kind of grosses me out and I just never think to do it. I also need to get back on the creatine / vitamin D train.



As for programming gonna be doing this program cause why not. Goes from being 5 days a week benching for the first 3 weeks and then 2 days a week for a 3 week peak. My back is still pretty messed up so I'm gonna be in pure rehab mode on squat/dl for the foreseeable future. The split:

Monday (Bench/Legs)
Tuesday (Bench/Steady State)
Wednesday (Bench/Back)
Thursday (Bench/Steady State)
Friday (Bench/Legs)

On mondays and fridays I'm going to do pause squats with no belt or sleeves (just to save time) with light weight and get most of my heavy volume from leg press and hack squat. On wednesday I'm going to do conventional deadlifts starting with 65lb (10lb bumpers) and just take it 10lb at a time from there, then load up on back work that I've been mostly not having time for lately. I really need to not ***** out on the cardio. Even 20-30 minutes two days a week will make a difference in weight loss. I've worked it out that I can get through these sessions in under an hour if I hustle, so I'm gonna go back to timing workouts for accountability on that front. I shouldn't have to wake up at 4:30 am anymore; more like 5:15.
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Old 09-13-2020, 10:01 PM   #53
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Re: Renton Rebuilds

I think your new lower body choices are not only weak but going to continue aggravating the problem.

I been meaning to post something similar to this to TC's log but I never got around to it.

The key to pain free lower body training is unilateral. That's not only how the human body works (sprinting, swimming, etc etc) but it allows you to load with less weight. And not to mention that many of us not only have muscle inbalances but also different limb lengths.

RFESS
Lunges
Unilateral leg press
Unilateral deadlift

The only multijoint lowerbody bilateral movement I do these days is a hip hinge and I don't go lower than a couple of inches below my knees. Body very happy.

And also it goes without saying that most people here have the core of a 12 year old school girl, led by Mr ExpectedV.

Where is the ab wheel? TRX fall outs? Weighted side planks? Unilateral upperbody work? (which tend to be anti rotation) It's a cricketfest around here.
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Old 09-13-2020, 10:02 PM   #54
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Re: Renton Rebuilds

By the way, I busted my back doing pause squats (went lower than parallel by accident and I buttwink). And hack squat has plenty of loaded flexion. Good luck with that crap.
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Old 09-14-2020, 08:20 AM   #55
Renton555
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Re: Renton Rebuilds

Quote:
Originally Posted by loco View Post
I think your new lower body choices are not only weak but going to continue aggravating the problem.

I been meaning to post something similar to this to TC's log but I never got around to it.

The key to pain free lower body training is unilateral. That's not only how the human body works (sprinting, swimming, etc etc) but it allows you to load with less weight. And not to mention that many of us not only have muscle inbalances but also different limb lengths.

RFESS
Lunges
Unilateral leg press
Unilateral deadlift

The only multijoint lowerbody bilateral movement I do these days is a hip hinge and I don't go lower than a couple of inches below my knees. Body very happy.

And also it goes without saying that most people here have the core of a 12 year old school girl, led by Mr ExpectedV.

Where is the ab wheel? TRX fall outs? Weighted side planks? Unilateral upperbody work? (which tend to be anti rotation) It's a cricketfest around here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by loco View Post
By the way, I busted my back doing pause squats (went lower than parallel by accident and I buttwink). And hack squat has plenty of loaded flexion. Good luck with that crap.
Thanks for the advice. One of the main goals of the lower work I'm choosing is to be able to barbell squat heavy weights without pain eventually. I say that to clarify that I'm not doing this for bodybuilding or general fitness as the main goals. I agree that I could use some unilateral work, but in the past that's proven difficult for me to adhere to (I find RFESS tedious and boring, as an example).

I kinda disagree with your fairly conventional wisdom approach to back pain, that loaded flexion is to be avoided at all costs. Yeah, that's one way to reduce instances of back pain. Another way is to modify the load and build strength in that position, and that approach has worked fairly well when I've had back pain in the past.

As for the absence of ab work, I'd obviously be doing it if I had infinite time to train. I've crammed in about as much as I've got time for at present and I consider it all to be more important than ab wheel.


Monday 4 Sep
W1D1

Bench Press: 95x5, 135x3 x3 sets

CG Bench: 125x8, 135x8, 140x8 @7.5

Pec Fly: 55x20 x3 sets
Facepull: 50x20 x3 sets

Pause Squat: 95x5 x5 sets
Leg Press: 1Px5, 2Px5 x4 sets

Goodmornings: 45x10, 65x10 x3 sets

T = 0:55, RPE 6

***

Not terrible. Bench was fine. It starts out really submaximal and most of the heavy work is close-grip and incline press.

Back was pretty delicate getting out of bed this morning. I felt a minor tweak in the right glute in the middle of the 3rd squat set. I finished the set, bracing better and descending more slowly and it didn't happen again. I kept the loading on leg press very light just to be on the safe side. I was going to do pull-throughs for the last movement but they just felt so awkward and stupid that I busted out some light goodmornings instead and GTFO of there. Gonna have to think of something better to put in that slot. Maybe follow locobro's advice and do some single leg RDLs or something.
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Old 09-14-2020, 10:30 AM   #56
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Re: Renton Rebuilds

I think that loco understand that not everyone has the same goals.

Of course, like most people he also knows that his goals are the only ones worth pursuing.

Question: do you need to do that much volume coming back from a long layoff from lifting?
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Old 09-14-2020, 10:55 AM   #57
Renton555
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Re: Renton Rebuilds

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTheMick2 View Post
I think that loco understand that not everyone has the same goals.

Of course, like most people he also knows that his goals are the only ones worth pursuing.

Question: do you need to do that much volume coming back from a long layoff from lifting?
It's just high frequency. Volume is comparable to what I've been doing. It's five sub-hour sessions per week instead of three 90 minute ones.

If it seems like I do a lot of sets, it's kind of deceiving because some of them are very easy sets. For example: 95x5 paused squat is something I could probably do for a 50 rep set if my back were 100%.
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Old 09-14-2020, 12:37 PM   #58
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Re: Renton Rebuilds

Quote:
Originally Posted by loco View Post
The key to pain free lower body training is unilateral.

...

And also it goes without saying that most people here have the core of a 12 year old school girl
I think bilateral-dominant training is fine. Like any lifting, it needs to be properly executed and include sufficient core work.

Most online coaches seem to recommend the bench press, the squat, the deadlift, and the overhead press as primary movers to new lifters. Good choices, but the deadlift and the squat are technically challenging and hard for a new lifter to do correctly. I often see poor execution on those two and on the bench as well.

So, while I think these lifts are good, I think poor execution of them often causes injuries and imbalances.

And, as you note, the core is often left behind, when it is actually the foundation on which we carry all these heavy loads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton555 View Post
As for the absence of ab work, I'd obviously be doing it if I had infinite time to train. I've crammed in about as much as I've got time for at present and I consider it all to be more important than ab wheel.

....

Back was pretty delicate getting out of bed this morning.
I don't think you have time NOT to use the ab wheel or to do similar exercises. Your core really is key. For what you describe, hanging leg raises is a good exercise. And, while it can be hard to fit in many exercises, an ab wheel is one of the most portable tools there is. You can always hit a couple quick sets at home.
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Old 09-15-2020, 07:59 AM   #59
Renton555
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Re: Renton Rebuilds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Muny View Post
I think bilateral-dominant training is fine. Like any lifting, it needs to be properly executed and include sufficient core work.

Most online coaches seem to recommend the bench press, the squat, the deadlift, and the overhead press as primary movers to new lifters. Good choices, but the deadlift and the squat are technically challenging and hard for a new lifter to do correctly. I often see poor execution on those two and on the bench as well.

So, while I think these lifts are good, I think poor execution of them often causes injuries and imbalances.

And, as you note, the core is often left behind, when it is actually the foundation on which we carry all these heavy loads.



I don't think you have time NOT to use the ab wheel or to do similar exercises. Your core really is key. For what you describe, hanging leg raises is a good exercise. And, while it can be hard to fit in many exercises, an ab wheel is one of the most portable tools there is. You can always hit a couple quick sets at home.
You're probably right. I do feel though that having done a lot of heavy squats and DLs in all of my programming up to this point should have necessitated a fairly strong core in spite of doing no isolation work. I said my back felt delicate because I just snapped it a couple of weeks ago, which could have happened even if I hadn't neglected core work. It also doesn't necessarily mean I lifted with poor form. Injuries happen and I suspect this one happened outside the gym anyway.


Tuesday 15 Sep
W1D2

Bench Press: 95x5, 135x3 x3 sets

Incline Bench: 95x6, 105x6 x4 sets @7.5

DB Lying Triceps Ext: 20s x20, 15, 13
DB Rows: 35s x20 x3 sets

Treadmill: 20 minutes

T = 0:54, RPE 6

***

Back is still pretty tight. Maybe it's one of those things where more pain means its getting better. Yeah, let's go with that.

I benched with one of the stupid fat bars and, again, it felt much heavier than 135. I gotta remember to bring my scale in and get to the bottom of this. I need to know if the bar I've been PRing with is only 35lb or something. Incline bench was pretty weak but I hadn't done them in a long time. Cardio was just a 3mph treadmill walk, which made my back feel a lot better.
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Old 09-16-2020, 08:12 AM   #60
Renton555
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Re: Renton Rebuilds

Wednesday 16 Sep
W1D3

Bench Press: 95x5, 135x3 x3 sets

CG Bench: 145x6, 155x6 x2 sets @9

(giant set)
Deadlift: 65x10 x5 sets
Chin-ups: 3, 3
DB Laterals: 10s x20 x3 sets
DB Hammer Curl: 20s x12 x3 sets

Low Row: 60x10 x2 sets, 50x10 x3 sets

T = 0:58, RPE 7

***

This was a pretty strong session in spite of how sore I was and how stiff my back was getting out of bed.

I think my close grip bench is probably only a few pounds weaker than standard grip. I'm fairly certain 155x6 is the most I've ever done with close grip, which is pretty good news for a lift that I haven't practiced for over a year.

Full range of motion deadlifts with minuscule weight felt really great. It's such a light weight that I can't even get in the starting position. They end up being essentially SLDLs, which require greater flexibility than regular DLs, but my back was still flat. This indicates to me that flexibility has never been the issue, but rather mobility (which I define as the union of flexibility and strength). I think just doing a linear progression for 5 sets of 10 should go a long way in getting my back right again.

By the way, I weighed the bars. The one I usually use is 44 pounds and the fat bars are 49.
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Old 09-18-2020, 08:14 AM   #61
Renton555
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Re: Renton Rebuilds

Friday 18 Sep
W1D4

Bench Press: 95x5, 135x3 x3 sets

Incline Bench: 95x3, 115x3, 125x3, 135x3 x2 sets @8.5

Machine Chest Press: 90x 20, 20, 18
Neutral Lat Pulldown: 70x20 x3 sets

Treadmill: 20 minutes

T = 0:55, RPE 6

***

The program recommends going 5 straight days but yesterday I called an audible and went back to sleep when I woke up really sore and stiff. Not my finest moment, but I'll go tomorrow and be caught up at that point.

Diet is pretty trash this week but it's been a particularly active one for me. I've been doing mostly hands on tasks at work, so there's probably an extra 1000 or so calories for me to work with this week.
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Old 09-19-2020, 10:06 AM   #62
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Re: Renton Rebuilds

Saturday 19 Sep
W1D5

Bench Press: 95x5, 135x3 x3 sets

CG Bench: 155x3, 165x3, 170x3 @9

Deadlift: 75x10 x2 sets (interrupted by crossfit class taking over the space)

Pause Squat: 95x5, 105x5 x4 sets

Leg Press: 2p x5, 3p x5 x5 sets
Machine Shoulder Press: 30x20 x3 sets

Machine Preacher Curl: 35x20 x3 sets

T = 1:00, RPE 6

***

Bench gains are def being made. Down 6lb since I started logging calories. Back is on the improve as well. Can't complain.
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Old 09-19-2020, 10:51 AM   #63
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Re: Renton Rebuilds

Nice work!
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Old 09-19-2020, 11:01 AM   #64
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Re: Renton Rebuilds

Quote:
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Down 6lb since I started logging calories.
Not shabby at all. Keep it up
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Old 09-20-2020, 08:29 PM   #65
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Re: Renton Rebuilds

Quote:
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Not shabby at all. Keep it up
Quote:
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Nice work!
Thanks, bros!


Week 6 Diet:



I ate a lot of really bad food this week. I also moved a lot, both in the gym and at work. I'm sure I lost weight but I seem to definitely be having a lot more trouble fixing my diet this time around compared with the initial cut. Probably being in America is a factor.
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Old 09-21-2020, 07:59 AM   #66
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Re: Renton Rebuilds

Monday 21 Sep
W2D1

Bench Press: 95x5 135, 155, 175x1 x3 sets @8, 145x3 x3 sets

Pec Fly: 40x20, 45x20 x2 sets
Pause Squat: 95x5, 115x5 x4 sets

Leg Press: 2p x5, 3px5 x4 sets
Facepulls: 50x20, 60x20 x2 sets

Deadlift: 75x10 x5 sets

T = under an hour, RPE 5

***

Pretty easy day. 175 moved well considering I'm carrying some fatigue.
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Old 09-22-2020, 08:14 AM   #67
Renton555
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Re: Renton Rebuilds

Tuesday 22 Sep
W2D2

Bench Press: 95x5 145x3 x3 sets

Spoto Press: 135x6, 145x6, 155x6 @8

Hammer Strength Incline Press: 1 plate x15 x3 sets
Low Row: 85x20 x3 sets

Treadmill: 20 minutes

T = 0:56, RPE 6

***

Not too bad. First time doing Spoto for a couple of years. I videoed the last two sets and on the first one I noticed I was pausing really close to the chest. I paused somewhat higher in the top set. It's hard to judge RPE; it felt pretty heavy but I'm sure I could have banged out a couple more. I left a bit on the table today but I'll push it harder later in the week with triples.
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Old 09-23-2020, 08:15 AM   #68
Renton555
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Re: Renton Rebuilds

Wednesday 23 Sep
W2D3

Bench Press: 95x5 145x3 x3 sets

Floor Press: 135x6, 145x6 x2 sets @9

Deadlift: 95x10 x5 sets
Chin-ups: x2 x5 sets

DB Laterals: 10s x15 x3 sets
DB Hammer Curls: 20s x12 x 3 sets

T = 0:48, RPE 6

***

The program called for a high pin bench but I didn't want to bother with setup and floor press seemed like a close enough alternative. I do floor press with a short pause and straight legs. The lack of leg drive makes them quite difficult.
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Old 09-25-2020, 08:59 AM   #69
Renton555
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Re: Renton Rebuilds

Friday 25 Sep
W2D4

Bench Press: 95x5 145x3 x3 sets

Spoto Press: 155x3, 170x3, 175x3 @9

Machine Shoulder Press: 50x20 x3 sets
Neutral Lat Pulldown 75x20 x3 sets

Treadmill: 20 minutes

T = 0:50, RPE 5

***

Good day. 175x3@9 seems about right given I did 155x6 @8 on Tuesday. I'm fairly optimistic that PRs will happen at the end of the cycle.
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Old 09-26-2020, 01:39 PM   #70
Renton555
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Re: Renton Rebuilds

Saturday 26 Sep
W2D5

Deadlift: 105x10 x5 sets

Bench Press: 95x5 145x3 x3 sets

Floor Press: 105x3, 135x3, 155x3, 165x3 @8, 175x2f

Pause Squat: 95x5, 125x5 x5 sets

Hack Squat: 1 plate x8 x5 sets

Isolateral Incline Press: 1 plate x15 x3 sets
Machine Preacher Curl: 50 x15 x3 sets

T = 1:10, RPE 6

***

Saturday session so I took longer, doing more ramping sets and supersetting less stuff. Also gym was crowded which always adds time. I got a lot done today.

Cardio deadlifts continue to go well. I'm planning to push 5x10 for a couple more weeks of linear progression then will gradually taper the reps. Back feels good, though I did have a random tweak when I goofed around with gymnastics rings between sets of floor press.

Floor press was solid. I was distracted by a long phone call after the 165 which probably resulted in me missing what should have been a comfortable 175 triple. Nonetheless that double is probably a 30lb PR for floor press.
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Old 09-26-2020, 09:06 PM   #71
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Re: Renton Rebuilds

I just prepped 6 days worth of food with bodybuilding macros. **** is about to get real in this thread.
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Old 09-26-2020, 09:26 PM   #72
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Re: Renton Rebuilds

Quote:
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I just prepped 6 days worth of food with bodybuilding macros. **** is about to get real in this thread.
Woot!
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Old 09-27-2020, 08:40 PM   #73
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Re: Renton Rebuilds

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTheMick2 View Post
Woot!



Week 7 Diet:



Pretty rough diet week, but it was a bonkers work week too. I trained on 5 days for the second week in a row (a personal record probably), and about 60% of my work time was spent doing manual tasks. This week expects to be pretty hectic as well but I'm prepared this time.

I made some chicken and veg and some chili con carne with rice, 6 portions of each. The chili portions are 443 cals, 49 carbs, 8 fats, 32 proteins, and the chicken meals are 478/39/10/55. So I'll have each of those for lunch and dinner on all 5 days. Breakfast will either be a bowl of oats with a whey water shake (350cal/30protein) or two pieces of chicken from chick fila (322/26protein). I'll have a 4th snack that will vary but will likely be a protein bar of some kind.

Sunday is a pretty close model for how I'd like to do it every day. Sub 1700 cals, sub 50g fats, and >140g protein.
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Old 09-28-2020, 08:11 AM   #74
Renton555
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Re: Renton Rebuilds

Monday 28 Sep
W3D1

Bench Press: 95x5, 135x3, 165x1, 185x1 x3 sets @7.5, 155x3 x3 sets

Pause Squat: 135x5 x5 sets

Pec Fly: 70x20 x3 sets
Low Row: 85x20 x3 sets
Leg Press: 3 plates x8 x3 sets

T = 0:49, RPE 6

***

It took some restraint to not put 205 on the bar when 185 felt pretty light. The other stuff went okay. My legs were very sore from the hack squats on Saturday. I may start sleeving up for pause squats soon, as it's starting to become heavy enough to be an actual stimulus. No back pain during those or the leg presses.
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Old 09-29-2020, 08:18 AM   #75
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Re: Renton Rebuilds

Tuesday 29 Sep
W3D2

Bench Press: 45x10, 135x3, 155x3 x3 sets @7

CG Bench Press: 125x12 x3 sets @8ish

Rope Triceps: 30x20 x3 sets
Rope Facepulls: 30x20 x3 sets

Treadmill: 20 minutes

T = 0:51, RPE 7

***

Pretty weak. 155 felt heavy so I took off a lot of weight for close grip. Then my triceps were so smoked that I also decided to drop the weight for accessories. This is the last 5x training week so it's probably the high watermark of fatigue for the cycle.
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