Yeah I had no idea who you were referring to. I didn't think it was Thremp, I thought it was floppy or spenda.

That reminds of my old bench press. It was 100% bodybuilding and it gave me shoulder problems.

I have had zero shoulder issues since switching. Small arch now, elbows slightly tucked, but shoulders always down and back (works great for all exercises). Wow, shoulders feel like a million bucks.

Training chest is awesome. I seriously spend 15 minutes a week doing upperbody push and kept most of my gains even with the running.

Incline bench or flat bench day1

Incline db bench or weighted pushups day2

That's it, 3 or 4 sets each and less than 10 minutes I hardly warmup. Takes 15 minutes a week. While the realities of natty training are sobering, when you truly realize them, it's beautiful. You can reach and keep 70-80% of your natty potential by just being consistent 2x per week.

You have to be sort of athletic to run a 60s 400.

I am not athletic, I ran 65s 400 last year and 13.5 100.

Sprinting versus endurance is kinda of interesting in that 1600m is way closer to 42000m, than to 400m. Not much difference in training for an elite mile and a marathon. It takes shietloads of running.

But at 800m is where it the line starts getting crossed.

For example Carl Lewis ran a 2:17 800m in his prime as an invitational. That's facking awful man, I am going to be 42 and I can run a 2:30. Yet Carl could run a sub20s 200m. Wat.

Anaerobic vs endurance. The mile is almost all aerobic. The 400 anaerobic. I am pretty sure some guys here might be able to outrun me in a 400. But an 800? No. Not anybody that logs anyway and the others don't count.

So a 1 minute 400m is anaerobic but a 4 minute 1600m is aerobic? How does that work?

200m 29% aerobic
400m 43%
800m 66%
1500 84%

Thats for highly trained athletes.

Well, in my mind I could certainly see myself being able to run a 2:30 800M with some training. But I admit the transition from thought exercise to reality often doesn’t translate well.

Is a 1 rep max squat aerobic or anaerobic? Why?

Is a 20 rep squat aerobic or anaerobic? Why?

I'd suspect for the elitest 800 runners, it may even be sub 50%.

Rudisha's WR run was the equivalent of running 8 sub 13s 100m in a row. 66% Aerobic would be hard to believe for that.

6/13 W10D4 Road to Mt Hood
5 miles 42:30
70F 7600ft elevation

6/14 W10D5 Road to Mt Hood
8 miles 1:03:54 (7:59 avg)

I lost the charging cable to my watch. Don't really know where I am at. I was hardly breathing here but didn't feel so good (had 7 drinks last night, color me shocked).

6/15 W10D6 Road to Mt Hood
8 miles 1:00:01 (7:30 avg)
140 bpm
Sea level 65F

Came back to sea level very strong!! Feel like a million bucks. Don't drink, feel fantastic and 30s per mile faster. Shocker.

6/16 W10D7 Road to Mt Hood
Tempo Run 7 miles 48:09 (6:53 per mile)

I felt like last mile I was flying, maybe 6:15 pace. No, it was 6:50 pace. This run was like 85-90% rpe, i couldn't imagine holding that pace for 3 hours. Not feeling great about mt hood.

Week1 39
Week2 39
Week3 34
Week4 51.33
Week5 42
Week6 54.25
Week7 37
Week8 47
Week9 33
Week10 51

6/18 W11D1 Road to Mt Hood
7.57 miles 1:01:49 (8:09 avg)

PM
Lunges
One legged DB deadlift
Hammer bench
Pullups
Hammer Row

4 miles 31:40

6/19 W11D2 Road to Mt Hood
8 miles 1:02:05 (7:45 avg)

6/20 W11D3 Road to Mt Hood
Treadmill Run 3deg decline 9.5 miles 59:11 (6:13 avg)

Lol wat. Feeling better about Mt Hood. Downhill running is so fake, I ran the last mile at 5:27 for shiets and giggles.

Whopping 4 pound sweat loss rate here, went from 157 to 153. It gives me an idea of how much to hydrate at room temperature tough runs.

6/21
Incline bench 3x5 @165
Pullups 3x10
Machine pullover 2x10
RDL 3x8 @145

W11D4 Road to Mt Hood
Treadmill Run 4 miles 29:40

6/22 W11D5 Road to Mt Hood
Trail Run 5 miles 43:59 (8:47 avg)
84F 74% humidity 200ft climbing

I am still a bit banged up from the downhill running. I had been completely healthy for the last two weeks. So the only time I got banged up the last six weeks, was due to downhill running. Same issue as before, lower calf (possibly peroneal).

I wanted 12 miles at marathon pace tomorrow at 3deg decline but I am not sure it's happening. I am 7 days out from. Mt Hood. This might be all she wrote, time to relax and recuperate. We will see.

I did get slightly sore in the quads from the last downhill session, so that's good. A slight training effect, but the peroneal issue is disturbing. I might bust a calf next weekend, not blow out a quad.

Go get 'em for the rest of us tiny bros. I get full credit for your running career even though I got hurt before we could race. I blame downhill running in the hill country for my eventual demise. Blew my leg up so bad and I never could recover. Had no heart to get back into training once I was fully healed.

6/23 W11D6 Road to Mt Hood
Treadmill Run 6 miles 48:00
Avg heart rate 132

Holy shiet!!! I've turned into a Running God. This is my home treadmill, so I know the numbers I have posted in the past.

Unfortunately, a chunck of the gains must be from heat acclimation in Vegas/Monterrey and hypoxia training in Bogota/Mexico City. So these good numbers are a little bit fake, I probably peaked aerobically this weekend.

I am still being stubborn and planning another downhill session tomorrow, so I can peak musculoskeleton wise on race day (Saturday). I know my body, rest 72 hours and I am 100%.

Week11 44 miles

If you starting your cardio base, close to 100% of your training should be in the first two zones. The third zone is for donks. The 4th zone/5th zone is legit though, but just a little.

For some people that's going to be 12:00-15:00 miles (fast walking)!! So that's why it was so sad to see partygirlUK's demise. Train like a donk and see you in the graveyard.

There is an old man I really respect. 50 years old, 2:30 marathon!! WTF!!! All his training is mainly zone 1. However, he runs 100 miles a week. So thats the downside, you will get way faster running slow but you really have to pack the miles.

The alternative is 80% slow/ 20% fast. That's optimal, but it really depends on how your body takes the wear. I been real happy with 90/10 (this training block), but I miss some of the speed stuff. I am not as explosive or aesthetic as last year.

But take a look at partygirlUK's training. 100% fast for three miles a week. Lolwat. Yes, the lower the mileage the higher proportion of fast mileage you can do. But three fast miles?!!! For a 240lb man? Sigh. Fast walking til he builds a base was good enough.

Very helpful, thanks!

I'm looking at the Peloton Heart Rate Zone classes side by side with their Power Zone classes. In a HRZ endurance class, I was 10% HRZ 1, 90% HRZ 2. In a Power endurance class, I was 60% HRZ 2, 40% HRZ 3. I know they're different classes and all, and I'm sure that given my overall current fitness I really can't make that many mistakes aside from burning myself out, but basically trying to figure out where I should start.

Given my personal unlikeliness to randomly burn out, and the fact that the classes are structured to prevent burnout, I will probably just pick whichever seems like more fun (which is probably the power zone classes since there's more analytics?) for now. But I'm very interested as a person who has never run >3 miles in figuring out why it's always been the aerobic side of things that has stopped me (aside from some mild asthma stuff). The "well you're running too fast you ****ing donk" message resonates. If my fastest mile ever was a 7:15 or so, and more frequently my shape has been 8:15-8:30 max, I shouldn't be out there trying to go for a jog or whatever at 9-10, I should be slower, right?

All of these things probably easier to understand now that I own a monitor.

I looked at the pleoton zones and they are also based on percentages of lactate threshold. The main difference is that lactate threshold heart rate is lower for cycling, especially if you don't cycle. There are also only 5 zones in running.

Cycling is also much lower impact. Runners, literally hit the pavement nonstop. I like cycling and always feel like a million bucks afterwards. But it is very painful to hit those higher zones and the lower zones are super boring. And if you go outside, you are going to get hit by a car. But it follows the same principle, sure at low mileage you can get away with higher intensity stuff but one does not look forward to it. One dreads it. It's when you approach the 80 % easy/ 20% hard barometer that exercise can be done for many hours. And that's what professionals follow and the science shows you make the fastest gains. And that is amazingly true for all endurance sports.

I seen a lot of bike paths in Europe and Latin America. Very few in Texas, why cycle when you can drive. Fat America.

Here is a good talk on training intensity distribution for elite endurance athletes:

Small quibble with the zone 3 training. I agree that people spend way too much time there. However, some training at that intensity can be useful, especially for shorter duration events.

I don't have time to look at it, but runners usually use zones based on percentages of lactate threshold. This guy is using based on VO2max. So there are going to be some slight differences. Almost all my training is in Zone 1. His Zone 2 goes a little bit into my Zone 3.

I will look at it later, looks solid though.

6/24
Bench press 3x7 185
Hammer Rows 4x8
Front Squats 2x5 135
Leg extensions / Leg Curls
Core

I am 156 now and the front squats were supposed to be rpe4. They felt like 6 or 7. Getting weak, legs looking very skinny.

I had an inbody bodyfat exam. It's fake. It has me at 156 11%. It has my buddy at 178 9%. I am stronger than him on almost all lifts at lower bodyweight. I am also way more vascular, he looks doughy next to me. My other buddy almost choked when he saw the results. My power rating went up because I have always yapped nonstop about how current bodyfat measurement is woefully incorrect.

Supposedly the machine costs thousands of dollars. Lol.

6/25
W12D1 Road to Mt Hood
6 miles 39:40 (6:37 avg)

Plan was 8 miles at marathon pace. Was coasting at 122 heart rate after the first mile, so I pumped it up.

Bad idea. It was humid and I couldn't evaporate any sweat, heart rate started climbing fast. At mile 3 I was at 138, but then my calf started hurting (same one as always). I limped out of the gym, depressed.

Feels a lot better the next day. Nerds on the running forum say I will be fine for Mt Hood but that I will be hurting for a week. I can handle that as long as I BQ.

loco,

Good luck this weekend. Hope the downhill isn't too weird, and the weather cooperates.

Re: training intensity:

All of what you've said makes sense, and I feel like even though Peloton is a 7 zone training system for intensity instead of a 5, it wouldn't be that far off to assume hand-wavingly that your advice would correspond to spending most of your time in zones 1-3, which so far has been my experience with their training course. Some reasonable amount of work on the border of 3-4, but much more work mid 3, which would most likely be zone 2 in a 5 zone system.

In parallel, you make lots of reference to your heart rate during your runs, and I'm trying to pay attention to the same, but I'm not sure what to look for yet. The power and heart numbers are pretty correlated, but even holding a reasonable power level for 30-40 minutes my heart rate slowly climbs. Peloton groups heart rate into 5 zones, and has classes geared at those zones too (I have only done one). Is there general advice you could give re: heart rate that is similar to "train most of your time at intensity 1 and 2" like "train most of your time below 130 bpm?"

Thanks again!

Yeah it depends on your age. So for a 40 year old, they should run mostly at 140 and below. And for cycling about 130. If you are 30 years old you can use 150/140. If you have a history of injury, you lower it another 5 heart beats.

You can also use rpe. They use different scales, but usually you want to run where you can still talk. Its the Borg rpe scale, so less than 11.

I lost my cable to my watch, so the last few weeks I was using rpe. This training cycle I was going slower than with the watch. EVgonnaEV. That's why heart rate monitoring so much better. People like EV totally abuse RPE and use their own distorted version of RPE.

Makes a lot of sense, and provides some validation to my assumption that the heart rate zone and power things are pretty well related in what they're trying to accomplish. Both types of class specifically say most of your training should be in zones where you can carry on a conversation.

The bpm numbers you're through out line up well with where I've been training, and that makes me happy. Mostly I got into this side of the metrics because I'm both inclined to nerd out on any available number, and because related to "lol EVgonnaEV" it's pretty easy to "feel like" your heart is at like 200 and then decide everything is scary and you're gonna die, when in fact it's hitting peaks in the 160-175 range which isn't low but isn't going to kill most people.

Re: watch -

A) You've done a lot for the forum
B) You've answered these questions for me and I appreciate that
C) These cables appear to be about the same price as a bag of SBUX beans

So if you PM me the model number of the watch and a shipping address I will make the cable show up at the designated address. If I can, I'll try to get it shipped in a way that will mean you'll have your watch for the marathon.

I already bought my third cable, just got it. My watch is on life support, over 1000 miles now. But it's very accurate and afraid to buy a new one.

The Garmin 235 music has really good reviews. I went to buy one, but they only had white. So changed my mind. Gonna run this watch til it's death, which might be this weekend. If the battery doesn't last for a marathon, it's no good anymore.