I dunno, but my hunch (based on nothing LDO) is it is all about relative load.

I mean the weights I'm currently doing are pretty much the absolute maximum my CNS/musculature/bones/joints/ligaments/etc. can take ATM.
And I like my body to be ready for the stress, which I don't think it would be if I were to lift as the 1st thing in the morning.

For someone actually strong the same weights might be proper ones to be used as the 1st warmup-weights and he/she could move them with no real elevated injury-risk.

All moot, ofc.

say goodbye to your fat depots, gonna melt off quicker than you can say hoochiemama.

Actually I think the weight is just as strong as your muscles can go. I doubt dudes that lift 2x what you do have 2x as much ligament/tendon/CNS capacity/etc. you are probably not close to maximally stressing out the non muscular aspects of your body.

But you have a history of a bad back so probably better safe than sorry, especially since it is in your head already.

How do you plan to adapt the UD2.0 program with a home gym? Doesnt it require glycogen depleting machine workouts?

*note: i have not read the ebook, just some cliffs

AidanDad update: he's been going to a clinic run by some exercise physiologists that specialize in cardiac rehab. He hates getting up at 6am three days a week but my mum says he hasnt missed one yet. It's a mix of weights and cardio fully supervised, and he's apparently even cut down a bit on wine consumption... A pretty awesome start.

Hope so, cut's been painfully slow so far. Slow semi-intentionally, though.
Low carb/cal days and depletion workouts will no doubt suck ass, but maybe the power workouts in fully carbed-up state make suffering worth it.
Anyway, excited to give it a go and try something different for a change.

Yeah, ligament/tendon/CNS/etc. capacity probably doesn't need to double up for you to go from say a 300lb DL to a 600lb DL but surely some adaptations/strengthening will need to occur there as well.

But that is all besides the point anyway and in the end this is all that matters for my situation specifically:


I fail to see why e.g. machine bench press would be better than BB bench press when it comes to depleting glycogen as it should simply be all about spending enough time under tension. If anything BB version recruites more muscles so in that sense it should be actually better.

Lyle does recommend using machines for depleting workouts in the book but it has more to do with it being easier/quicker wrt weight changes and supersetting stuff.
Loading and unloading plates on bars takes time yes, but I'm sure I can make it work with BB and DB stuff, just takes a bit more time and hassle than what it'd take with machines.

:chathumb: to AidanDad.

Speaking of UD2.0, just put quickly together an initial plan:


A rough UD2.0 Plan

A cycle starts on Tuesday, ends on Monday.


Diet

Depletion phase:
Tuesday-Friday PM: (Friday 75% of other days' macros/cals before Friday PM workout)
180p/60c/55f - 1450 cals (135p/45c/41f - 1090 cals)

Carb-up:
From Friday PM (peri-WO) to Saturday night combined:
250p/1000c/50f - 5450 cals

Sunday (continuation of carb-up, tapering it down):
180p/350c/60f - 2660 cals

Monday (high fat day 'cos all good diets need a pizza day, cals still <maintenance):
180p/200c/100f - 2420 cals


Workouts

Wednesday - depletion:
10-12 sets of 12-15 reps per bodypart @ 50-60% of 1RM with short rest

Friday - tension:
2-4 sets of 6-12 reps per bodypart @ 70%-85% of 1RM with 1-2 mins rest

Sunday - power:
3-6 sets of 3-6 reps per bodypart @ X%+ of 1RM with 3-5 mins rest

Cardio = biking/walking on Mon, Tue, Thur, Fri AM


A tentative layout of the depletion&tension WO's:

Depletion: (A1 is supersetted with A2 etc.)
Frontsquat or gobletsquat 5x15
A1 Bench 5x15
A2 Yates Row 5x15
B2 Press 5x15
B2 Chins 5x10 (don't think I can do 5x15, unsure about 5x10 as well)
RDL 5x15
C1 Incline Bench 5x15
C2 Curls 5x15
Planks 5x10x10s

That's 625 reps.
Probably 30k+ of weight moved.
Should be fun with minimal carbs/calories.

Tension:
Frontsquat or gobletsquat 2x8
A1 Bench 2x8
A2 Yates Row 2x8
B2 Press 2x8
B2 Chins 2x8
RDL 2x8
C1 Incline Bench 2x8
C2 Curls 2x8
Planks 2x8x10s
Side-Planks 2x8x10s

Need to think on the specifics of the power-WOs - exercise selection, % of 1RM etc.
Trying to go for PR's in these workouts ofc.

Also need to think on supplements. Too bad we can't even have ephedrine here.
Gonna creatine-load alongside with carb-ups.

FPS to the max.

Looks ****ing miserable, but strangely arousing at the same time. Will be curious to see how it goes for you, and how the noods develop.

What does a depletion day look like food choice wise?

Yupp, that is exactly how I feel about it.
There's definetely a non-zero chance I end up ragequitting after a day or two of low-carbs/cals.

Need to remember to snap a mirror noodle before the 1st cycle.

Not sure, need to think on that
A bunch of low-fat dairy/meat/seafood and a ton of veggies probably.
Maybe a slice or two of low-carb bread and perhaps a fruit of some sort.
Definetely no much room for anything else, if even for all that.

ye for me it's mostly quark/protein fluff and protein source + veggies.
veggies add up quickly and reach 400kcals or more a lot easier than you would think so protein fluff is the best filler

a lot of people get nausea with low-carb + depletion WOs the first 1-2 weeks(I did) but that will get better with time

Skyr gonna be my best friend through the depleting phases, I reckon.

Going by:

1450 on depletion/cutting days ie Tue-Thur
1090 on Fri AM
5450 on Fri PM and Sat combined
2660 on Sun
2420 on Mon

= total of 15970 cals within a weekly cycle = 2280 avg per a day.
Assuming a 2.7k-ish maintenance that should yield less than 0.5 kg of bodyfat lost per a cycle.
Unless I manage to still utilize fats for fuel somewhere in rebuilding/carb-refeeding phase.

Losing more bodyfat than that and actually ending up putting on a small amount of muscle would be a fantastic outcome of course but need to be realistic - most likely not gonna happen.
Losing zero muscle while losing half a kilo of bodyfat is the goal.

Where did you get this plan from, did you make it up? Id be worried your depletion wont be enough. I think it's usually about the volume you set up but on back to back days.

Machines are helpful for this kind of stuff because they take stress off your core. By the time you get to the latter half of these workouts your core fatigue will interfere with your ability to perform the exercises.

Just my opinion after doing ud2.0 for like 3 weeks before stopping.

You make a very good point about the core fatigue, didn't come to think about that at all.

Regarding the volume, here is a quote from the UD2.0 book:

The plan above was based on that, and the equipment I have.
His preference seems to be dividing the work into two sessions done on back-to-back days. For time reasons I'd like to cram it all into one session.

If I experience core issues (or energy issues, or any issues really other than being a pussy), I'll go ahead and split the volume into two bouts, one on Tuesday and one on Wednesday.
Or I could lift at work, where I have access to machines.

Nothing's written in stone yet.

Oh, yeah, was that the reason you stopped or?

Any other thoughts/experiences about the thing?

29.4.2015

Biking
22 kms / 18.8 kmph

+2 C and raining like a mother****er.
Not nice.

30.4.2015

OHP
3x4x61 kg

Every set was like RPE 9.5.
Ugh.

Weighted Chins
2x6 @ +15 kg
1x9 @ +5 kg

DB-OHP
2x8x20 kg's
1x12x15 kg's

Weighted Side-Planks
+20 kg
1x5x10s (left)
1x5x10s (right)

DB-Hammer-Curls
2x15x15 kg's

I started UD bc I wasnt going to have access to barbells other than by sneaking into the Y but had dbs and machines. I stopped after 3 weeks bc moved back somewhere with a quality gym.

I noticed a lot of core fatigue trying to sub in stuff like goblet squats, db swings db rows and such. Using as many machines as possible made me feel like i was targeting the muscles better.

I dont really understand your extrapolation from that lyle quote or your reasoning. It would be way better to do 2 sessions of x time than 1 session of 2x. You will be able to maintain a higher level of intensity over the course of the workouts this way. The depletion workouts didnt take me that long, iirc maybe 50 mins, but they were hell.

I would say doing 2 depletion days at work with a more standard program seems like the best option. With whatever you decide GL. Coming off of GSLP and tennis a few times per week I was not prepared for this style of training. Be ready to go way lower in weight than you think. Also agree with cashy, the nausea was real

Kool, thx.

Good points. In the book Lyle recommends machines for the depleting workouts but he doesn't give any other reasoning for it besides it being easier/quicker to set up than with free weights.

I need to explore the work gym, to see what options there is. I've been there multiple times but never really paid attention to machines at all.

In the book he also says that both approaches are fine - one monster session or two shorter ones - just get enough work done (but not too much), one way or another.

Anyway, I'll probably end up splitting the depletion work into two sessions. Maybe when I start the 1st cycle I'll go ahead and attempt doing it all in one session on Tuesday and if that doesn't work, I'll stop ~halfway through and do the rest on Wednesday.

Aaaand if that doesn't work either, I'll get it done in two bouts at work with máquina de pesas.

Instead of 60% of 1RM he recommends for weights, I think I'll start with 40-50% and see what happens.
And go up if I can, ofc.

1.5.2015

Biking
20 kms / 21.4 kmph

No work, no commute, because Labor Day.
Decided to do a random ride anyway, because weather was real nice for a change.

2.5.2015

Morning BW = 76.3 kg.

Deadlift
2x160 kg
5x145 kg

Bench
4x90 kg
6x85 kg
8x80 kg

Power-Shrugs
2x10x170 kg

Incline-Bench
2x12x60 kg

Ab-Wheel
2x10

BB-Curls
1x20x30 kg

Yawn.

4.5.2015

Week	BW		Cals	Protein	Carbs	Fat	Fiber
1	80,7		2699	206	233	105	39
2	80,3		2742	217	227	107	41
3	79,9		2859	211	224	124	45
4	79,9		2680	192	224	113	42
5	79,6		2675	192	239	106	49
6	79,2		2746	203	295	84	48
7	78,7		2555	198	221	98	47
8	78,9		2468	185	211	99	41
9	78,3		2588	185	283	80	45
10	78,2		2398	186	207	92	39
11	77,8		2543	188	230	97	39
12	77,7		2200	175	199	78	32
13	76,9		-	-	-	-	-

Here we go.
Makes me wonder why haven't I been this disciplined diet-wise and eaten at a deficit of this magnitude the entire 12 weeks.
I could be skinny-semiripped 74 kg'er by now.
Plus last week I didn't feel any different than during the 11 weeks before it.

O well, shoulda, woulda, coulda.
Maintenance for this week and then it's torture time.

Have you done anything remotely similar to the depletion workouts before? Does Lyle say anything about working up to that kind of volume? I would assume diving right into it would **** you up pretty hard. I mean, transitioning from SS to 5/3/1 was a bit rough the first cycle, can't imagine what this will feel like.

I don't think he says anything about working up to that kind of volume.

I believe the most reps I've ever done in a single workout is about 200, back in 2013 during my machinist-cut when I used to do pretty voluminous stuff. These days I'm at ~100 reps per workout at most.
No issues with that kind of volume back then but obviously 600 reps is on another planet entirely.

So I'm fully expecting a nauseating shock for sure. And sickening DOMS.
But no pain, no gain.

In the end 600+ reps in one monster session is most likely too tall of an order so I think I'll split the depletion work into two ~300 rep fullbody sessions done on Tuesday and Wednesday.
Or maybe do chest/back/shoulders on Tue and legs/arms/abs on Wed.
Or chest/shoulders/triceps on Tue and legs/back/biceps on Wed.
Plenty of options.

A fairly humorous write-up of a dude's experience with UD 2.0:
https://bluntobject.wordpress.com/20...mate-diet-2-0/

You still have time to turn back

Tippy top lels Soulman. Tippy top.