Even for people who're blowing up their weight. I'm considering trying to gain like 20 lbs if/when I come back to America (lol barbells). We'll see what happens. But to support a gain of 2/2 a day, you'll need 9k extra cals per week, plus whatever is necessary to account for the various X factors that happen in the body. You could easily need 15k+ more per week. And magically we're in the range of people consuming vast quantities of food.

He mentioned that in the first edition of PPST. It's not in the 2nd edition. There is an example of a young trainee who wants to add lean muscle mass after completing SS. So he would go on the Texas Method and instead of doing the Intensity Friday with a new 5RM PR every week, he'd do 5 sets of 10 to 15 reps instead and try to progress strength wise with 5x5 on Mondays. The volume days actually include training to failure etc. All the BB techniques. If there is interest, I can get the book and type that passage. It's not very long.

This is not a good thing for novices because the "moderate" weights will be way too low and you won't have a nice linear progression. And novices gain mass anyway, so the payoff of training for strength gains and adding weight to the bar is much greater.

Varying the intermediate programming like that is one instance of how you can decide what you want to focus on as soon as you are beyond the novice stage. Some people want to add muscle mass and do a more physique oriented training and do not care about pure strength gains that much anymore. That is perfectly fine AT THAT POINT IN TIME. Not earlier.

I tried this for like three weeks. 5x10 of squats across is ****ing brutal. This is not for beginners. You need to have solid form, you need to have the attitude and the experience to squat while you are basically blacking out.

Training for mass is the same as training for strength in novice trainees.

2nd paragraph, beginning of 2nd sentence. If you were refering to what I wrote.

Ok this is a little tricky to explain what I am asking, but I'll try my best.

Scenario:
Take 3 guys, 6' tall, 200 pounds, no formal weight training, basically sedentary lifestyle. They all start doing SS at the same time. The first guy eats at a deficit, the second guy eats at maintenance, and the third guy eats at a surplus.

I imagine that for a while (1-2 months?) they will all make similar gains, and the food consumption will not come into play for a while. Is that time period correct, or will there be noticeable effects right away? Or maybe it will be longer than 2 months because they have a fair amount of weight on their bodies to start with?

Also, how long do you think you could expect to make gains eating at only maintenance and doing SS?

Depends a good bit on genetics, bodyfat%, and their form. But let's normalize for those variables and assume they are constant across the dudes.

You are mostly correct with 1-2 months. That said, caloric restriction can and will cause shortened recovery very quickly and may make the person dieting skip some workouts. He will have a significant psychological effect, if not physical, that makes him hate life while doing this hard stuff. Remember though that novices are thoroughly unadapted to stress and therefore make large strides because they are not really being taxed at all. When the squat gets to BW and DL is 1.2x BW (approximation) is when the rubber is going to hit the road, IMO.

RE: Gains while on maintenance - assuming protein levels are high, you could probably do this for some time. I gained no weight while on SS (maybe a few pounds, but not likely) and made it six months before needing to change programming in the SQ and DL.

Ok, cool. My squat is just over my body weight, and my DL is just over the 1.2BW mark (I assuming this work sets and not 1RM correct?)

Can I go from (work set) 235 squat to 300 in ~4 months eating at maintenance?
And same question for DL 285>400

I'm just tired of getting fatter, but don't want to see big slows in my gains.

Question about supplements. There was a long post on a Finnish sites about how to eat pre and post workout and it was basically summarized like this:

1-2h before working out - 20-50g protein, 30-75g carbs, fat can also be included
0-30 min before the workout or during the workout - 20-40g protein, 20-60g carbs, can include a little fat
0-30 min after workout - 20-50g protein, 40-75g carbs, a little fat can also be included

I think I read about a simliar article somewhere around here but I couldn't find it. Anyway, if this is a good way, how do you people do it practically? I'm on SS and have eaten a warm meal 1.5-2h before workout and taken a Mass 2 recovery shake post workout (+milk). Now that's ran out so I guess I should buy some more, maybe some whey protein (never taken it before)? I also haven't done the 0-30 before workout snack, would this help my progress?

Meh that's a little all over the place but I'm really clueless here.

I follow Alan Aragon's guidelines on workout nutrition. No need to overthink this **** imo, it's a small rock.

I found these things at my work in the back of the employee fridge called Protein Shots. I looked at the ingredients and it was basically just whey and casein protein, if I am remembering correctly. Each 'shot' had 25g of protein and was 100 calories. If I remember right, each gram of protein is 4 calories, so that adds up right, means there isn't really a whole lot else in it.

Does anyone know about these? Are they legit? Are they expensive(probably)? But it sure would seem like an easy way to get an extra 100g of protein every day just knockin' back one of those with each meal.

It's not casein. Collagenic protein isolate. Horse hoofs, Imo.

+1

Linear progression over a low rep range is optimal for beginners.

Additional volume in the form of higher rep work is exclusively for intermediate and advanced physique enthusiasts.

peri-workout protein is very silly.

Don't worry about this garbage. Eat sometime before, and soon after your workout and get lots of nutrients. If you like some carbs while you train, go for it.

Your overall macronutritional breakdown is far more relevant in the context of any goal.

The rest is preference and OCD bodybuilding tendencies.

no. The difference in growth stimulus between those ranges for anyone will be roughly nonexistent.

If your long term goals are strength or performance oriented, lower-repetition training is probably ideal. As a novice, a change in a well devised program like shifting a rep range has much more potential to do a lot of damage than it does to improve results.

Just don't assume the stuff you read is accurate or applicable. There is a LOT of information out there.

What's the consensus on using a belt while bench pressing doing 3x5 linear progression which is starting to get hard? Does it help or can it hinder proper technique? Is it as much of an aid as it is in the squat or deadlift?

If I stopped doing SS to start doing some more O-lifting work and metcon type training for a a while (4-6 months), could I resume SS and just eat a bunch, and go back to seeing solid gains again?

JF,

Probably, but why don't you follow through on what you started?

kit,

Fwiw, there is no strong consensus for the use of belts for squats and DLs for a 3x5 progression, and certainly none for the bench press. (See December thread for more discussion.)

jf,
What is your primary goal? And what gains are you referring to?

Ok, sorry I don't even know exactly what I mean, so the question is unclear.

My original goal was to get strong doing SS and then do a cut, sometime around April and go all summer. If I finish SS(what's the best way to determine this, when squat and DL stop going up?) and switch to an O-lifting type program while cutting all summer, I imagine that if I do the cut right, I'll lose a little strength with along with body fat.

Can I go back to doing SS type linear gains after I stop cutting by starting to eat a bunch again? Is low volume O-lifting not the best type of programming to be doing while cutting?

In other words, your long-term goals are finishing the novice phase on SS + cutting down BF and learning o-lifts. Not necessarily in that order.

Afaik, advanced powerlifters know how to use a belt to improve the bench. It's def nothing to worry about during the ss stage IMO.

Yes, and probably in this order. In April I will have been doing SS for 8 months. I may or may not have finished it by then, but I plan on cutting at the beginning of April. I don't imagine that I could keep making a lot more gains after being on SS for 8 months+eating at a significant deficit.

When your squat and deadlift reach intermediate stage you are probably done with linear gains every workout. Here is a chart that shows a basic outline for novice/intermediate/advanced:
http://www.crossfit.com/cf-journal/WLSTANDARDS.pdf

THIS IS NOT CORRECT

No. NO. NO NO NO NO.

Christ Rip should have never posted that.

You're done with being a novice when you are no longer making progress, despite the fact that you are eating and resting enough*, and you have done a couple of resets.

There is no correct number for the lifts that indicate you are done.

* You aren't.