In that case I highly recommend it. It has great carry over to the normal squat, you can load it as easily and heavily as a barbell squat. Program it as you would squats.

Aidan,

What do you get out of a regular LBBS or HBBS that you don't get from a safety bar squat? I can't think of anything obvious.

It seems like it's more or less analogous to using straps for front squats. And I don't think anyone really sees that as a big problem.

My impression is that the biggest problem is availability. If you are not planning on competing it seems safety bar squats have no real downside if you have access to pne.

Maybe a little bit of upper back tightness and some technical proficiency if you're really thinking about comp carry over. But yeah, if you only ever safety bar squatted you'd see little to no difference assuming close to equal loading.

https://www.strongerbyscience.com/safety-bar-squats/

Well that seems like about as relevant study as we're going to get. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the 11% difference was due to them just being way more accustomed to BB squats. Authors mention this as well.

In fact in a bizarro world where you had a bunch of experienced squatters who did nothing but safety squats for years, I'd bet heavily that their BB squats would be lower weight if they were enrolled in this exact study.

Almost certainly, right? You get better at the specific thing you practice, even if it has a lot of carryover to other things it is unlikely to be 100%

Thanks guys. Yup I read that same article and the headline of 10+% was definitely part of the concern.

Sounds like a good idea for my bro at least

Holla AMIGOS!

My questions refers to this post within a log in this forum section:
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...&postcount=298

Seems that Hero has done more powerlifting-simimlarish stuff.
I think people have pointed him out that in order to get max big&shredded (asthetics) strength-training is not max +ev.

Though other peope seem to have other opinions, as as some newbie-ressources out
on the web, such as Stronglifts:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...&postcount=295

What is right then?
What do you think is the max +ev line/programm/training-philosophy when it comes to aesthetics and health?

I would say that there isn't a holy grail of an answer, which is what it appears you are looking for. Training is very specific for the individual. First you would need to accurately define your goals. Then you would need to piece together different training styles to suit your goals.

-Strength training tends to be high intensity (weight) low volume (reps/sets)
-Hypertrophy training tends to be high volume (reps/sets) and low intensity (weight).
-If a sport/competition is involved you would need to plan on training for that as well.
-For overall health some type of cardio should be added (HIIT, LSD, etc.)
-You should also address your diet as that plays a big part in everything as well.

I think you will get better responses from this forum if you state what your actual goals are (competitive weightlifting, competitive powerlifting, strongman, marathons, rock climbing, look better naked, etc.) and give a background as to where you are now. If you have been following a program, what is it, how well did you follow it, and how has it worked for you? If you are new to strength training the recommendations would be very different than someone who has been doing it for a few years, which would also be different from someone who has been doing it for decades. Are there any injuries that need to be addressed/worked around?

Yeah, should have given some background.
Most relevant infos are above.
In addition: No competitive ambitions, shall stay natural, no injuries,
I am working out since 10 years (just a loved hobby - so not uber-prfoessional).
Will potentially post my workout-plan later, since I am writing at the moment a new one and how it will end up looking, also depends on the future replies to my question, I might get here.


Anyways, thanks so far for replying and I am sorry for my bad
non-native english - I hope I could still get my point across.

Regards,
Zrebna

First 6-9 months, something like starting strength, stronglifts, or various 5x5 programs. Envision your goal as perfecting the technique of the high bar back squat (do not low bar back squat, even if you plan to powerlift later), deadlift, and flat barbell bench press. Worry less about weight and more about perfect looking and feeling reps each week, but do add weight when possible.

After you feel like you can perform very good reps even when it feels like an 8 out of 10 difficulty, move toward a more conventional hypertrophy "bodybuilding split", but keep the squat, deadlift, and bench press, or variants of them if you prefer, in your routine. Variants could mean lbbs, paused squats, front squats, incline bench, db incline/flat bench, stiff legged or romanian deadlifts.

While you are in that first 6-9 month period, feel free to add things like curls, tricep pushdowns, shoulder raises, etc. Don't make things complicated, keep workouts under 90 minutes and don't do that kind of stuff so heavy it starts to make your next bench press or overhead press session more difficult.

You should keep the ohp in during the first 6-9 months for the sake of balancing out your shoulder joints and supporting musculature, not because it's really a hardcore muscle builder. Lots of people do no overhead pressing at all and find that incline benching and various shoulder isolation work is enough, but if you feel like you have weaker shoulders, keeping OHP or variants in your routine after you transition into the more bodybuilding style split in is totally fine.

I personally feel SS has a big weakness in not enough DL volume and would change to 3 sets of 5 DL with the last set being approximately an 8-8.5/10 difficulty. I'd rather do 5x5 hbbs 2x/wk with rest times limited to 3-5 minutes where the last set is maybe more like a 7.5-8/10 difficulty. Make weight jumps more infrequently than these beginner programs typically recommend.


What kind of split you choose afterword honestly barely matters. Some people do well on higher volume stuff like FST-7, some people do better on lower volume routines like Dorian's routine or the Dave Palumbo training routine. Newer trainees who will have difficulty reaching true muscular failure just from lack of years of practice with movements should probably gravitate toward higher volume stuff because it's more chances to perfect technique and mind-muscle connection.

Go on John Meadows youtube, look at a video of the bodypart you want to train, try that routine and see if you get a good pump and feel it in the muscles you are trying to work. If the answer is "yes", do that routine for that body part. If not, move on to another one. John's stuff is great and is kind of middle of the road as far as volume; not super high or super low, still some occasional sets to failure thrown in here and there.

Hey, thanks a lot for all your input, truly much appreciated.

I will check out some stuff and sources which you posted.

Noob-question: When you say for instance 8/10 difficulty - you mean by that to
let 1-2 reps in reserve before muscle failure or what do you mean by it?

I like this one:
move toward a more conventional hypertrophy "bodybuilding split", but keep the squat, deadlift, and bench press,

This would be anyways my plan - basically a kind of hybrid:
At the start more strength-oriented program like 3x5 for instance with the set of exercises you just posted and the rest a more conventional BB-volume-program.

Also what is your personal guess for the hobby-athlete with a few years of training experience (never competed), natty and above 30 years of age, on average in regard to
split vs. full body?
I know it's an old question, but just interested in your guess.

Anyways, thanks once again for your input

Generally speaking it means you feel like you could do 2 more good, clean reps for that set. Especially as a beginner I don't recommend you ever go to failure at least for a main movement. Maybe something like curls or some ab movement is ok.

Ah, ok got it - thanks for clearing that up.

Here's a good video on setting up weight training programming. While it's not beginner level information, beginners should be thinking about what comes next, and this is the very next step. And, while many -- especially those on Starting Strength -- will just move onto the Texas Method, this helps explain the fundamentals behind such methods.

Here's a screen cap that might help to follow along or to take notes:

TL;DR; Background:
Have started doing exercises in my office - mostly bodyweight-based (currently at 102 kg) but I have some 5kg dumbells to increase resistance and will get more. Current workout (based on the design your own thing on nerd fitness) is
1) warm-up exercises based on youtube video from nerd fitness.
2) dumbbell squats (suitcase style)
3) push-ups (embarrassed to say I'm still at the "incline push-ups" stage)
4) bent-over dumbbell rows
5) plank
6) dumbell deadlift - planning to replace this one with dumbell step-up
7) GOTO 2)

I sometimes do some bicep curls at the end for the hell of it.

Also doing low carb food.

My aims are mostly related to weight loss and also generally looking good/fit (e.g. subjectively I think I have much better posture now) rather than "bulking" specifically.

A few noob questions:

1) Any views on the above approach of "supersetting" everything together? - i.e. 1 set of each exercise in the workout before returning to the start again and doing another set of each? It seems like it saves time / recovery - because I'm ready do incline push-ups immediately after doing dumbbell squats.

2) The 5 kg weights feel light - particularly in the rows, but I could also take more resistance in the other exercises too. What would you recommend buying as a next set of adjustable dumbbells? Barbells are out as this stuff has to be kept in my office. Do you think I need the ability to go up in 2.5 kg increments - what max weight should I buy at this stage 20 kg or 30 kg?

3) I'm currently doing Mon, Tue, Thu, Fri. When I get proper weights should I cut it to Mon-Wed-Fri for more recovery time? Should I do cardio stuff on the other days or rest completely?

Getting active is the first step, so congrats! That being said, at this stage you'll improve doing pretty much anything that doesn't cause pain or injury. So, doing what you're doing should lead to improvement. Be sure to read the FAQ for more on that.

That being said, a few things jump out. One is that working out in the office is inherently limiting. Unless you're getting in at 5 am, training undisturbed, and have your own shower, you likely can't really train with any intensity there. On the flip side, doing something active rather than sitting in an office chair for hours on end is very positive. You can certainly do the plan you laid out as a giant set (supersetting everything), but there's probably no reason to rush into that. OTOH, you may prefer doing it little by little during the course of the workday. You won't break a sweat (literally...you are in an office after all) but will get the same workload.

As you're seeking weight loss, diet and cardio will be very important. It really is calories in, calories out, so set a goal on your daily caloric intake. You can do cardio all you want without worrying about your training as laid out here. In fact, you won't want to use that as an excuse to do less cardio. For cardio in the office, simply taking a walk during lunch and taking the stairs whenever you can will help, and that will set the tone for a more active lifestyle. You can run, walk, bike, hike, etc. after work for your main cardio.

For dumbbells, I assume you don't plan to have a dumbbell rack in your office. Since you're probably limited on the stuff you want to (or can) have there, I'd go a bit heavier than the pair you have (e.g., if you can have only two pairs of dumbbells, it's better to have one light and one heavy than a light one and a slightly less light one). Try some in a gym or hotel fitness center if you get a chance to visit one, or simply try some in a store (being careful to adhere to the COVID restrictions, of course). My guess is 20 kg will be right, but only you can tell that.

Good luck!

Thanks for that. I'm mostly doing stuff in the evening after I've seen my last in-person client (I teach English, mostly in person and translate, exclusively by email) - my office is lockable so I'm fine to get shirtless etc.

I'm just about to click order on a set of 2x20 kg dumbell kits (they have 8x 1.25 kg, 4x 2.5kg and 4x 5kg weights so they are adjustable in 2.5 kg increments). There is room for extra discs on them and it's also possible to buy additional 10kg weights from same company so I could get 4 of them if I need later to go from 22.5 kg to 40 kg. They are cement in plastic based which is a lot cheaper than alloy. They also have the 30/31 mm bar/hole diameter which seems to be most standard so I won't be stuck if the company folds. There were cheaper sets up to 20kg but the seemed to lack compatibility with other ranges and extend-ability within the same range.

That sounds like a plan. Good luck.

As most people these days, I work from home. I have a gym in my house. Unfortunately I'm pretty unfocused and can't bring myself to go to the gym to put in a 30 min to 1 hour session.

I'm considering just moving my computer down to the gym and doing a 4 hour session or whatever. Lift some weights, respond to emails, do a few more sets, have a call, lift, etc.

Does this make any sense? Think I'm going to do it, because why not.

Question about this approach.

At the moment I'm doing a full four-minute warm-up before I start, this actually:



How does this work if you spread the lifting exercises out through the day? Do you need to re-warm-up each time before you start doing the resistance stuff, or just do things for the specific muscles, or is warming up not that necessary/possible to shorten?

P.S. the 2.5-20kg dumbells arrived already - starting them at 7.5 kg today.

Housenuts and LektorAJ,

There's nothing inherently wrong with taking a long break between sets, even to the point of spreading a workout across the day, with a low intensity workout. LektorAJ's workout is basically set up for exactly that approach. But, you'll both have to be the judge of what you can handle. I think you'll just have to try it and see.

For example, if I'm doing pull-ups, dumbbell curls and ab wheel stuff at home, I don't mind taking my time between sets to do other things. On the other hand, I would never watch YouTube videos for a half-hour and then immediately jump onto a one-rep max deadlift.

TL,DR: IMO gym lifts should be done without all those interruptions. Home-type workouts (not home gym workouts) like calisthenics, light to moderate dumbbell work, etc. is probably just fine for that approach. But, again, try it and see if it works for you before assuming you can just dive right into it.

Does warm up and then takes nap to recover from fatigue

True. We warmed up kind of like that before football practice, but I just stretch a little before lifting.

While I have you here... how long did it take you during your big weight loss to work up to decent cardio sessions?