Well, a couple of points here. First, any beginner is going to have to ford the rivers of bro science, opinion, anecdotes, individualism and **** studies if they are going to do this. There is no shelter. It may be one of the bigger obstacles.

Second, I appreciate needing a study for proof, but we don’t have a lot of good studies on a lot of subjects. Those we do have are largely garbage-poorly constructed or controlled. Questionable conclusions from the results. It can be counterproductive to rely on that standard as well. A professional in the field, or even a very experienced athlete may have better conclusions than a poor study. In this case there are many articles that talk about practical use of grip strength to measure recovery or readiness of athletes. They may be wrong in their conclusions of why—cns—but taking what they observe can be valuable to us.

I mean look. Everyone agrees creatine works at this point. It worked before any studies were conducted tho.

I don't see how it is useful to make up imaginary-- that's what we are talking about here-- types of fatigue. Let fatigue just be fatigue and use some form of load management in your program to keep it within a reasonable range. Don't walk up to a deadlift bar with the anticipation that you're about to "trash your CNS." Just lift the weight and use straps when necessary.

This isn't the same as using creatine before the studies. In that case it's a supplement that people were getting a lot of purported benefit from and the negatives to using it were non existent. Using creatine was free rolling a positive outcome. Regarding CNS fatigue as a thing is a negative freeroll.

Well, I disagree with how you are using the information. If you use periodization in your programming, for example, you are applying a potentially arbitrary formula that is likely suboptimal for your gains. If you are able to use grip strength as an indicator for readiness or recovery, it could certainly be positive, not only negative in how you set up for the day and week. Call it whatever you want--CNS, overall fatigue, the why behind it may remain unknown for our lifetimes.

As for creatine, you are correct in hindsight. If creatine was being introduced right now it would not meet the criteria for anything other than broscience, particularly because even if people observed it worked they would not know why, and yet would still offer their bro-science theories as to why. It also was not known to be safe until it was proven safe, so how was it a freeroll?

A current example is curcumin. It is being touted as the cure-all for everything under the sun right now. I had some joint pain start about a year ago and decided to try taking that and glucosamine since it was cheap and kind of a freeroll. It really is not though, because who knows what the side effects could be? Either way, I have not had an issue since supplementing daily with it. I know this is purely anecdotal. I also know that it could be any number of factors outside of the sups that are causing the change. At this point there are not good studies that are conclusive, but it either works or it doesn't to reduce this specific inflammation, and that is true now before they find out with studies and before they understand why.

Another example the other direction that we have talked about briefly is Brett Contreras's studies with EMG. He just came out with another self-study on the "best" back and bicep exercises. It is flawed af for so many reasons, but the god damned premise is ridic to begin with. There is zero proof that the EMG measured activation causes optimal strength or hypertrophy. But it's measurable, right? so it has to be better?

It's fine to say we don't know and that working theories without data are not proof, but dismissing them out of hand because of it is overly nitty and hold individual progress back in the gym, IMO.

Hrm.

That IS the CNS.

The entire idea of being 'psyched up' or "on fire" is because your CNS is "firing on all cylinders"

I can't address the whole post right now but two things. First, with creatine or any product that is sold on the open market, it is generally tested for safe consumption. I don't know the detailed history of creatine, but I suspect it was known to be safe to humans long before it was known to cause increased strength and hypertrophy. Hence, a freeroll.

A different example would be meal timing. If you're trying to get jacked and lean, it's probably a good idea to eat 5 small to moderate meals of >30g protein a day instead of 3 >50g meals, even though there are few studies to back it up. We have a fairly well-tested hypothesis that more frequent meals > less frequent for body composition, and all bodybuilders have been eating that way for years. It's at least a freeroll and it's not that hard to do if you're serious about bodybuilding, so it is smart to do it.

Whatever the hypothesized "CNS fatigue" is, it's most likely a different thing from psychological arousal. Systemic fatigue is purported to have a dose-response relationship to volume and intensity, and decays at a somewhat predictable rate, hence how programs are written. Psychological arousal is much more random on any given day.

No. This is not a point of opinion.

https://ods.od.nih.gov/Health_Inform...Questions.aspx

ETA there are many examples of products being marketed as safe workout or weight loss supplements and later pulled. A well-known one is ephedrine.

I didn't say it was required by the state to be tested, and I said "generally," not "always." I'll let you have the last word on this topic otherwise. You can take it to mine or your log if you'd like to talk about it more.

I recently started lifting and have mostly been taking it pretty easy learning the main lifts etc.

About two weeks ago I was squatting started off with the bar to warm up and then 10kg on each side for 5 sets of 5 which obviously isn't heavy but was like my 3rd time squatting none of the sets were difficult but in my last set I could really feel it in my upper right calf below the knee. The next day I literally couldn't bend or straighten my leg and up until yesterday (~2 weeks) I had restricted motion and pain to the touch in that upper calf lower outside knee area. As far as I can tell there aren't any knee snapping faults in my form, the only issue I've picked up on is slight back rounding at the bottom of my squat, but I'm obviously new so that may be rubbish.

Now obviously I want to get back into learning to do this and I'm putting it down to just tweaking something but is there anything I can do to ease back into it or check the recovery?

Literally not being able to flex or extend your knee the next day sounds extreme. Was it just DOMS? Was there bruising?

As for recovery, moving as soon as you can is good. If you can air squat with low discomfort, do that. If you can lift lighter loads, do that. Only leg press, do that.

The CNS debate is probably an all time low for this thread. "Your nervous system literally controls your muscle contractions." A new high mark for pedantry by nuclear.

Not doms, my left leg weaker was completely fine and DOMs doesn't take 2 weeks. My time on google led me to believe I'd torn my meniscus but that may be complete bollocks.

Did a few sets of bodyweight squats today and it seems fine but I'll see tomorrow I suppose.

I mean, I love the knowledgeable posters here. Sincerely. But why is this a bad convo to have? It’s kinda what we’re here for. I’m okay being wrong about **** but this look is kinda wack:



I’m also okay following misrepresented advice from people who are getting results I want even if they are wrong about why. I’m cool with trying things to see how they work for me and if I enjoy it I’m fine with it. It’s not serious business to everyone, y’all.

There was a debate?

I searched around the forum for my answer prior to posting, but I may have missed it, so apologies if this has been answered previously.


I'm 27, been lifting/active most of my life, but recently had some back issues, i.e. degenerative disc injury. Took 2-3 months off of the gym to let my injury heal. It really sucked. That was July-October 18'.

About 10 days ago, felt some spasms in my back and I've been having some slight pain/lockups. Day 1 was maybe a 5-6/10, but now on day 10, I'm down to a 1-2/10. Did a little bit of light cardio in these past 10 days, but no lifting. I'm trying to go back to the gym, but I'm thinking about switching up the workout plan.

Anyone have any resources for a good plan/some exercises? I did some homework on it and I'm thinking about doing a full body workout plan for the next 2-3 months with mostly dumbbell work.

I'm far more concerned about just getting back to being active everyday to burn off work stress instead of meeting true fitness benchmarks, so if that means more cardio and lighter weight/more reps, that is fine. I wouldn't be opposed to dropping 10-20 lbs anyways, but I wouldn't say I'm at an extremely unhealthy weight/obese. (6'0 210)

Second, I started doing IF for last 10 days while I couldn't workout and I've definitely noticed improvements like feeling less sluggish/having more energy. I even get more done at work since I don't have to pause to eat as much.

My question is can I work out while fasted? I've been trying to read around, but it seems like mostly bro science, so I don't know what to believe exactly.My only time to workout is early morning, 6-7 am, but opening my window at like 7 am and closing at 3 would be difficult to maintain due to my job requirements (think client dinners/networking events)

Sorry if this is the wrong place, but these seem like beginner questions. Didn't want to start a whole thread just for a few basic questions or anything.

Did anyone ever determine statistically the relationship between creatine and hair loss?

1- "Anyone have any resources for a good plan/some exercises? "
I would start with https://squatuniversity.com/2018/06/...ore-stability/
and move to whatever push/pull/squat program works for you after those feel good, whether that's involving DBs, Kettlebells, or barbells. YMMV.

2- Just see how you feel working out fasted imo. If it feels bad and that's the only time you can workout, don't do IF imo.

The one study wasn't even about actual hairloss but about the hormone DHT.

People then extrapolate that to OMG creatine causes hairloss because that's what scared people do.

Anything that can directly, or indirectly, raise testosterone is going to cause a rise in DHT as well....so if you're sensitive to DHT then your hair will start "falling out" earlier then 'normal.'

Starting strength still our defacto rec to newish lifters?

It's good enough, yeah. No need to kill yourself on it, though. GSLP also fine, with the same caveats.

Depends entirely on their goal. If the goal is aesthetics, I think SS should have never been the default recommendation to begin with.

If the goal is strength, then sure.

Even if the goal is strength, I wouldn't recommend it followed to the letter. I think there's a huge subset of the gen pop (even including novices) for which 3x5 pressing three days a week is ineffective for producing real gains. Most people probably shouldn't do power cleans. The reset protocol isn't great. One balls out set of 5 deadlifts for someone learning how to deadlift seems not as good as just doing a few ramping sets to keep intensity manageable while getting more proficient at the movement itself.

But yeah running it for 8 weeks with a rank novice or someone coming off a layoff isn't the worst option.

Not really a beginner question but idk where to ask besides this thread.

I have been lifting for quite a few years and realy love how i look at this exact moment.
I have as much muscle as I'd like to have with a pretty low bf%
Honestly sort of sick of lifting heavy weights and just sort of tired of weight lifting in general. I LOVE to train on the heavy bag and would prefer to do that most of the time( i add in farmers walks and push ups and bw squats in between sets on the bag)
My question is this. If I eat well and do this type of workout will I be able to maintain what I have and look as I do now? Or will I lose a lot of muscle and shrink?

I suspect that I can probably keep what I have but am not sure.

Depends on how much muscle you are carrying now for one thing. The best play would be to reduce the weights and increase the other stuff until you see you are losing more muscle than you want to, imo.

ok thanks johnny.

x-post

Looking for advice on buying heart rate monitor watch thingies. Don't need anything fancy but I'd like something to show my heart rate so I can say, maintain it at a certain level when exercising. Plus I find it's sometimes 135 when I start the elliptical machine but also sometimes 135 after twenty minutes of running and I'd like a little more insight into what causes what, the effect of using an inhaler and so on.