This statement itself is certainly taking it a bit too far as you can accumulate a little more than 'exactly nothing' in the course of a year.

I will say that the limited amount of AJ posts I have read seem to stand out to me as something I would tell people to take precaution before attempting to do what he has said. I'm sure he has very good advice in some spots but that's how I feel overall. Even with basically zero lifting knowledge other than the questionable stuff I have read online, his advice just feels off a bit to me.

I think the way you refute his arguments really doesn't seem to do the job you hope it does. You basically want him to do more substantial research as you yourself seem to have done before posting and I don't see how you are accomplishing this by continuously telling him how stupid he is. I think it feels good to argue and to call people stupid and my natural instinct when I hear bad advice is to immediately want to think how idiotic the person is. It makes life more entertaining to have these arguments but overall I don't think it helps.

You didn't offend me. I just don't think that gainsaying what someone else says is either refuting it or offering anything of your own.

I also think you think such things come down to who you hang out with more than they really do.

Notable in that respect is that you are putting the knowledge about grip of people who don't train in it above the knowledge about grip of people who do train in it, which seems to me a poor choice.

Needless to say, it's easy enough to find people who train grip specifically who can hold heavy weights easily, so there's nothing unique or especially elucidating in your finding people who train in lifting heavy weights specifically who can also do the same but eschew grip work. These people tend to be very strong, period. You would expect them to have strong grips. (Interestingly, many weightlifters don't.)

If anything, it's far more telling that some guys with prodigious grips are in indifferent shape or even in lousy shape. Yet with very little time spent training grip specifically, they find it easy to hold weights that people who are in great shape and have been working on their strength for a while need straps for or can only hold for a few moments if at all. This clearly shows how good grip training is for, well, there it is again, I have to say it ... gripping. (And again -- who'da thunk it?)

This is very straightforward stuff. Whether you like Thremp or not, or think that who anybody likes or hangs around with means anything, it's clear enough that I think you have to be nourishing a grudge or something not to acknowledge.

I also think that since you could find out the truth of what I'm saying probably in less than a month on a gripper program, you might as well try one for yourself instead of theorizing about them and taking without a grain of salt the opinions of people who admittedly don't even use them either. It would be a whole lot better than contenting yourself with the blind leading the blind, which is basically just being willful and stubborn. Take a month and find out for yourself. Read the grip boards too maybe, and see if the very simple and indeed pretty much inevitable thing I've been saying -- that grip-specific work is an extremely quick way to increase your grip a great deal -- isn't pretty much the common experience there.

If you find that what I'm saying is not the common experience with serious dedicated grip work, then you'll have learned something and you can tell the rest of us. If you find you've committed yourself to a serious gripping program for a month or two and don't find your grip much stronger, then you'll also have found out from personal experience that, at least anecdotally, I may well be wrong and my experience may be far more unique than I have found it to be. Then you can tell us so and we can talk about that from at least some kind of basis.

Before you've done either of those things, it's not unfair to say you're out of your depth and too easily content with it.

If you really think people should be judged by what they do and not just their logic, stop theorizing, go get some grippers and a good program you're willing to stick to, and come back in a month or two with your findings. I'm sure the forum would enjoy the trip report.

Thremp I would also bet that the vast majority of PLers who read these past couple pages would agree w/me about the grip for the deadlift.

Just because you are good at sounding like you are right, and historically know what you are talking about, doesn't mean everything you say is gold.

Blarg, I use grippers. I closed the number 2 a few weeks after getting it. Kevin Knee deadlifts over 800 pounds with a mixed grip and can't close a number 2. Deadlifting doesn't require the same type or level of grip strength as grippers. That's why the fastest, most effective way to train gripping he deadlift would not be gripper based even if you used them. Maybe grippers are awesome for overall forearm strength and squeezing strength, I don't know, but I've heard numerous times that the carryover and progress to gripping a barbell is not great.

I try to do a little gripping with them once a week for forearms. I don't bother with grip work right in my workouts because my grip gets worked every day but legs. If you have some grip program that I could do once a week, I would give it a try. Recently all I've done is closed the 1 a bunch of times and done isometrics and eccentrics with the 2.

You can show very quick progress training grip in ways other than with grippers. You could just lift your training weights in a week, do 2 sets of a grip hold once a week, and progress every single week on your barbell grip for months or longer.

A lot of weightlifters definitely don't have incredibly strong grips, because they don't need to. It's an entire different type of gripping with a hook grip. Your arms are supposed to stay relaxed and whippy and you are strapped onto the bar. It requires a lot of hand strength though. I know an olifter who messed around with a gripper and could close the 2 with his fingers, but couldn't close it if he put it in his hand.

Yes it is.

eta: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM

there's a very good chance the posts you are thinking of were obvious levels/jokes and you didn't get it because you don't lift...

It may not surprise you after seeing this exchange that I rarely post any advice or info for others that has any chance of even being debatable by opinion on the same forum as Thremp

You are right it is certainly possible that you are saying good things, I just don't get the impression that what you are saying is totally correct. Having Thremp and Blarg pick apart what you say offers further evidence that you do in fact give misinformed advice on occasion. If you read carefully I never said I didn't lift. I actually do lift regularly, I just have not read much technical advice other than stuff I have seen in the forums and so do not offer advice with lifting. On the other hand, I have read quite a bit about nutrition and that's about the only aspect of this board that I feel confident responding.

One random thing I remember you posting was taking 30g of fish oil a day. This stuff just strikes me odd. It certainly *might* be good, I just can't imagine us having evolved to eat that extreme amount.

He might of been joking there about Poliquin who is a very famous and very accomplished trainer, who is probably going insane. He tends to write really stupid stuff now.

Fish oil, assuming its not discount Chinese stuff full of heavy metals, is probably fine in that dosing (or really any dosing). Though I find it a little silly to eat that much of it. In addition to being quite cost prohibitive.

And yet you've still managed to give a decent sample of poor quality dangerous "advice". I should dig up the triple extension thing about the squat. That is just mind boggingly dumb.

pick apart? Thremp and Blarg are wrong. Especially Thremp, who has been backpeddling this entire exchange. He has no evidence that his opinion and assertions, which he has changed throughout the discussion, are even remotely correct.

Post this on any real lifting forum anywhere and they will agree with my position.

Only if they're either proud or ignorant or both.

Why not try posting it on a gripping forum and see how funny they think it is that you believe dedicated grip work is, ahem, inferior for improving your grip.

When multiple people are in conflict with your opinion and offer evidence to the contrary then I would define this as picking apart. When there are seemingly intelligent beings saying something the complete opposite of your opinion then you should almost always consider looking into what they are saying. And to me, it signals that someone is wrong. When this happens on several occasions then you can build up a reputation for questionable advice. You may very well end up being right in all this mess, I don't know. Just the other day lifegrinder, our expert (who may very well be wrong himself) told you to stop reading flex articles because of its poor content, I would advise you to be cautious when reading this stuff

I'm curious what I've been backpedaling on.

Grip work using grippers is better (more practical) for the novice/intermediate lifter to incorporate into their programming to overcome grip problems rather than adding additional heavy isometric holds.

Note: I'm not even sure what you're arguing. I'd like to reiterate again your overall level of incompetence. Thought I'm curious what cookie has to say.

Whether I meandered here or there in my drivel is of little interest. You continually cite things like a "real lifting forum". But you fail to address key concepts. Like why powerlifters cannot close a gripper, but people who can close a gripper can hold the PLs loads. One strength is superior to the other and demonstrates clear carryover while the other does not. You instead try to fall back on a quagmire of uneducated masses. Here is another question: If there is a difference between your pull raw and your pull with straps... What is the problem?

I can double overhand 380

K, Thremp's grip is weak as **** that's all I know.

JK BRO

Haha. The issue isn't whether I can hold 400. If I can hold 410 is DLing 400 going to be harder than if I can hold 500? The answer is obviously yes. This is the answer to a previous comment I made about strapped v unstrapped lifting. If you pull more with straps (you should be able to pull slightly more), you can correct this by incorporating grip work.

Also, I find it lol about asking PLers for grip work. Next I'm going to suggest asking a flight attendant forum for advice on my IRA.

Fwiw, this is the most quotable post in this ridiculous grip debate.

Can we please go back to posting hot girls with monster quads, rocking out to ronnie coleman, and calling people bucko

Front Squat: 230 x 5 for 3 sets

Military Press: 130 x 5, 5, 4

Speed DL: 205x1 for 14

imo

LISTEN HERE BUCKO

mother****er

I could probably do that for 1 rep as well imo

mother****er imo, bucko.

I don't believe this is true at all. Most people who can "close grippers" aren't even capable of lifting the loads that powerlifters move in rack pulls and suited deadlifts just by the nature of powerlifting

furthermore, this still doesn't address the issue of how long it takes for the carryover to become significant. Most powerlifters who squat 700 pounds are strong enough to high bar squat 400 pounds. That doesn't mean learning to low-bar a massive amount of weight is the best way to achieve this

work specific to the movement being trained is more simple, has better carryover, and is simply better. I don't see any real education or evidence for your opinion other than that you think it is logical.

You clearly know little about lifting, and even admitted to this. I suggest you stay out of this, or otherwise expect your comments to not make sense and to misunderstand a lot of what is being said

all of the flex comments have been an obvious ongoing joke on this forum.

Jeff,

I said "hold". I didn't say "rack pull" "DL" "Circle Jerk". You're taking a gross copout. I mean its a ****ing spring with handles, what good could it do you? I'm giving up... Your arguments are silly. Closing a gripper v an isometric hold is more similar to Johnny needing to hold 200 lbs in a quarter squat. If he can full squat 200 lbs... He's in a great position to be able to maintain the isometric while the converse is not true. Isometric training does not have a full carryover (exclude the fact that muscle recruitment differs in various portions of the squat). Or we could use something simpler like curls... The example stands pretty easily on its own.

Okay. I'm stopping. Your posts are so tilty.

Its also humorous you deride Greeksquared for essentially the same issue you have: not knowing much.

WTF does this even mean? Like doing DLs is the best way to get better at DLs? This is clearly not true.