old log: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/85...er-log-486226/

I decided to start over b/c my old log was getting super long and I had been losing some motivation. Anywhere, where I started in april:
Squat: 3x5x135
Bench: 3x5x135
Deads: 1x5x155
Press: 3x5x85
PC: 3x5x85

I plateaued a couple of weeks ago at:
Squat: 3x5x245
Bench: 3x5x185
Deads: 1x5x270
Press: 115
PC: 120

So as you can see, I've made some nice progress. However, my diet has sucked, and since April I've probably missed 1.5 months worth of workouts, so I definitely can do better. Anyway, today's workout:

Squat:
3x5x225
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RIhqzig2P4

These felt okay. Possibly a little deep?

Bench:
3x5x175
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLSfvzquauk

I've never felt great about my bench. I've recently modified my grip a bit which I think has helped. Seems like the bar is still traveling too far backwards, or something.

Deads:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsX6Hsx7gSQ

If you read my old log you know I've always struggled with deads. I've made a lot of progress, but I know I still have a long way to go. These look okay. My negatives have gotten faster, which I think is good, but I'm still going around my knees a bit on them. And back is still a bit rounded.

back not in extension on deadlift

nice squats. i wish i went that deep on mine, ha.

You're going to hurt your back.

hate to do this, but here are some still relevant quotes from the old thread.

watch the dave tate bench video. put your feet up on the bench and bridge from there to your upper back. you should feel your upper back press deeply into the bench. try to duplicate that pressure with your butt on the bench now. you'll have to get a tight lower back arch to get close. right now you're just flat on the bench.

sigh. what % of my work set weight would you guys suggest doing until I can get my form fixed (starting to doubt this will ever happen)? I don't want to hurt my back ;/

do the drill in the squat section of SS ed2 for teaching yourself lower back extension

its weird man, think of how a gorilla sits, like a huge silver back gorilla. thats how i think dls (and squatting sorta) should look. its not really arching your back, it's just raising your upper body in the air, sort of like throwing your chest out.

Are you:

doing a dynamic mobility warmup
static stretching outside the gym
foam rolling/myofascial release
practicing the movements at home with a camera/mirror and a broomstick

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_a.../the_dead_zone

dave tate deadlift article

some pretty good stuff in there i think

pretty sure it was in your old thread, but

note he says step 4 is the hard part. this is the part you seem to be ignoring or not understanding. once you touch your shins to the bar (where you roll the bar forward), your back stays looking pretty relaxed. there's no effort on your part to lift up your chest without dropping your hips. and you basically always let the bar roll forward as/before it breaks off the floor, which other people keep mentioning as the bar being forward.

walk yourself through these steps every time you deadlift. stand up between each rep so you have to remember every step.

I thought I had cleaned up a lot of my extra movements, ie not looking in the mirror anymore, not going in slow motion on my negatives, etc

thanks, I will do. I think I get almost scared to bridge my back at all because back in the day when I would bench I'd be totally bowed out and have my butt off the bench.

Okay, ty

That's the frustrating thing, I feel like I have a good academic understanding of how to do the lift, and of course I know what it feels like to have my back in extension. Just can't put it together for some reason.

I practice the squat movement, but it's not so easy to practice cleans and deads w/a broom, unless I'm missing something. I don't really do any stretching b/c I didn't think there was a consensus as to whether it was useful or not. I do have a copy of MM though which I'll give another look. So you think this is probably a flexibility issue, I take it? Shoulder flexibility, maybe?

ty sir

It seems to me like the hardest thing to do is to keep the bar still during set up. I assume everyone's bumpers are round, I dunno why I can't get them to stay in one place.

as always, thanks for the replies

Lotta good replies in this thread.

OP, pay special attention and work on things referenced by PS and smiley.

In essence, you need to teach yourself to 1) Dissociate your hips from your lumbar spine & 2) Learn what a neutral spine position feels like, and how to maintain it.

Some things that will help
> Rippetoe's drill for extension
> From MM/MS pay attention to movements like bird-dogs, hip-flexor work, thoracic extension and lumbar stability drills
> It's useful to get proprioceptive feedback to "learn" the correct positions. If you can have someone semi-knowledgeable palpate your lower back when it is set, or iv you proper cues, you will be able to internalize the "chest up, scaps retracted, neutral spine" position
> Core stability and strength is very useful to maintain the neutral spine under loads. See derosnec log. While correctly performed squats and DLs themselves help with this, you might find it useful to work in progressions of planks, side bridges, pallof presses, etc

This, plus a lack of body awareness, and of course core strength. Also, look at the Neanderthal no more series - my guess is you have really excessive kyphosis as well.

Yeah, my posture is terrible.

I'll do some core stuff at home today. I want to go back and do some light deads while some stuff is fresh in my head, but I don't know if that's a good idea. Will video if I go.

Did some superman's, planks, and side bridges yesterday. How long should I be holding these? Like 10 seconds x 10 reps, or just as long as I can, for as many reps as I can?

Also, it seems kind of counter-intuitive that I should be doing exercises that are focused on building strengh in specific muscles on rest days...no?

anyway, I'll whip out a few more today after work. Tomorrow I'm going to do workout B like normal, but I want to do a few deads too. I'd like to be dead lifting right now, tbh. It's like when you can't think of someone's name but it's on the tip of your tongue...this is going to bother me until I get it

A standard progression for prone bridges/side bridges would be something like
3 x 30 seconds (each, with the side bridge). And increasing time held slowly over time.

After a while though it becomes quite useless to increase just time (i.e. you don't wanna be doing 3 x 2 mins etc). You can add in other progressions and perturbations like using one hand, increasing the distance with your elbows etc.

The key for you now, as you're learning is technique and drilling in correct positions and habits.

The most commonly seen mistake is hiking the hips and letting the lumbar spine sag in order to compensate and hold the position for time.

As for DLs, see this:
http://www.strengthmill.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6144

You are currently working on #1. Reduce the load on the DLs and focus only on neutral spine integrity.

While I typically dislike this forum's focus on form nittery, they're mostly right on here.

In the DL, get the bar in contact with the shins, and pull with the chest. Think chest up and back - that should be your focus. This cue alone will solve many of your problems.

Also foam roller etc.

the more I think about it and mime the movements the more I think that it's a hamstring flexability issue. I can't grip the bar w/out either A) bowing my back or B) bending my knees.

Are they any sexy hammy stretches I should do, other than touching my toes and just a standard double leg stretch thing?

i'm confused. when you walk up to the bar - shins about an inch from the bar - you are supposed to bend over and grab the bar; anyways, that means your back will be bent/rounded at that point. then when you bring your shins to the bar, you bend your knees and set your back in the non-rounded starting position. so, "bowing of the back," which i assume means rounding, is ok when you first grab the bar.

i think. if i'm wrong, then fml i've been doing it wrong the whole time.

i do the good morning standing stretch per Pavel's pdf (can't remember the url) - that will really work the hamstrings. and toy soldiers and body squats and those exercises where you grab your feet and pull yourself down in a squat. i'll have to find the names/urls at some point. check out Cressey or Robertson's sites for a bazillion stretching exercises.

you know what really stretches the hamstrings? 3x25 DLs with just the bar. i did those when rehabbing my back. holy crap were my hamstrings getting worked during those. i could feel the abuse in the middle of the workouts. though not really feasible when doing SS workouts every other day.

no you are right, it can and probably has to be bowed when you grip. Problem is, I have no hammy flexibility and a long ass torso, so mine bends a ton, and I don't have the ability to get it flexed back the other way once I'm packed in and ready to pull

haha now that I think about it that doesn't make much sense. I don't know. I guess I'm just too weak to lock out my core, but I can squat 260, based on that it seems like I should be strong enough to deadlift the same.

I'm looking forward to my workout tonight. After I finish my cleans I'm going to add:
1x5x135
1x3x195
and then something like 3x3x220 and I'm going to make a ton of videos. Not leaving untill I do it right or I physically can't do anymore

Your back definitely should be arched as you address the bar. The second you pull the bar, though, you should get your chest up, up, UP! That will solve nearly all your problems. And just drop the weight in a slightly controlled manner.

I know the whole chest up thing is just a cue to set your spine from the top down. I feel like I do get my chest pretty high, I just can't get my spine set