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Old 03-29-2021, 03:38 PM   #8501
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Re: Monte's Log, Featuring a Debate About Dotard Genetic Potential with an Ant

Man that is a strong pace. Your leg drive at 16.3 very strong.
What damper setting?
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Old 03-29-2021, 04:04 PM   #8502
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Re: Monte's Log, Featuring a Debate About Dotard Genetic Potential with an Ant

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Really good progress! I can't remember if you ever did a sub 2:00 (pace) marathon, but it should be trivial now.
Lol? I don't know about trivial, but I'm not sure I actually want to do it.

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Pics on the 3rd? I don't have time during the week to set up the lighting to try and squeeze under 30% BF.
I completely forgot; I've also been drinking heavily for the last week, so maybe let's postpone until end of April?

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Man that is a strong pace. Your leg drive at 16.3 very strong.
What damper setting?
Drag factor is always ~90 for steady state.
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Old 03-29-2021, 04:45 PM   #8503
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Re: Monte's Log, Featuring a Debate About Dotard Genetic Potential with an Ant

Waiting anxiously for 30% BF, skinnyfatfat noodz.
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Old 03-29-2021, 07:11 PM   #8504
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Re: Monte's Log, Featuring a Debate About Dotard Genetic Potential with an Ant

I haven't really been following the Montebro log since he became a rower, but I assume this whole 30% bf is everyone having a lel. There is no way Monte is 30% bf and if there is, I might need to actually go back and read this thing.
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Old 03-30-2021, 03:12 AM   #8505
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Re: Monte's Log, Featuring a Debate About Dotard Genetic Potential with an Ant

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I completely forgot; I've also been drinking heavily for the last week, so maybe let's postpone until end of April?
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Old 03-30-2021, 03:30 AM   #8506
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Re: Monte's Log, Featuring a Debate About Dotard Genetic Potential with an Ant

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I haven't really been following the Montebro log since he became a rower, but I assume this whole 30% bf is everyone having a lel. There is no way Monte is 30% bf and if there is, I might need to actually go back and read this thing.

You think heís 35?
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Old 03-30-2021, 07:03 PM   #8507
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Re: Monte's Log, Featuring a Debate About Dotard Genetic Potential with an Ant

3/30
ULD25 (UT3) - 30'
6806m/2:12.2/14.0 spm

HRM battery died. Fine otherwise.
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Old 03-31-2021, 07:11 PM   #8508
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Re: Monte's Log, Featuring a Debate About Dotard Genetic Potential with an Ant

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3/21
Warmup - 20'
LD21 (AT) - 2x16'/8'r
16'_1: 4173m/1:55.0/21 spm/171 HR/178 MHR/107 drag (1:46-1:49 interval pace)
16'_2: 4163m/1:55.3/24 spm/175 HR/182 MHR/110 drag (1:45-1:47 interval pace)
Cooldown - 20' (2:09 @16)
3/31
Warmup - 15'
LD27 (AT) - 2x16'/8'r (1:30/:30r)
16'_1: 4131m/1:56.1/22 spm/107 drag (1:48-1:50 interval pace)
16'_2: 4124m/1:56.3/23 spm/110 drag (1:46-1:48 interval pace)
Cooldown - 5' (2:09 @16)

Had to squeeze this one in after work, so a bit abbreviated. Legs felt heavy since I'd increased the frequency this week due to my work schedule; decrease in total meters is due, at least in part, to the fact that I wasn't really doing much in between intervals and intentionally slowed down a bit because the intervals increased to 1:30/:30 from 1:20/:40 (a bigger difference than you'd think).
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Old 04-04-2021, 06:12 PM   #8509
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Re: Monte's Log, Featuring a Debate About Dotard Genetic Potential with an Ant

4/4
Warmup - 10'
LD28 (UT2) - 50'
12003m/2:05.0/16.1 spm/149 HR/165 MHR

2:05 seems like a pretty nice UT2 pace; would definitely like to see it keep coming down over the next few months, but not going to push it.
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Old 04-04-2021, 06:15 PM   #8510
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Re: Monte's Log, Featuring a Debate About Dotard Genetic Potential with an Ant

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4/4
Warmup - 10'
LD28 (UT2) - 50'
12003m/2:05.0/16.1 spm/149 HR/165 MHR

2:05 seems like a pretty nice UT2 pace; would definitely like to see it keep coming down over the next few months, but not going to push it.

did you read through the link I posted in my thread?

Itís admittedly very dense and not the easiest read but they have suggested UT1 and UT2 paces for a cycle dependent on what your 2k goal time is

I havenít finished going through it and planning my next cycle but Iím gonna be doing it today
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Old 04-04-2021, 06:26 PM   #8511
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Re: Monte's Log, Featuring a Debate About Dotard Genetic Potential with an Ant

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did you read through the link I posted in my thread?

Itís admittedly very dense and not the easiest read but they have suggested UT1 and UT2 paces for a cycle dependent on what your 2k goal time is

I havenít finished going through it and planning my next cycle but Iím gonna be doing it today
I haven't yet, but I'm back home so I will tonight. Interested to see what it says.
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Old 04-05-2021, 07:17 AM   #8512
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Re: Monte's Log, Featuring a Debate About Dotard Genetic Potential with an Ant

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3/24
Warmup - 15'
LD23 (UT1) - 25' (10' @22, 10' @23, 5' @24)
6595m/1:53.9/22.8 spm/175 HR/182 MHR
Cooldown - 10'
4/5
Warmup - 15'
LD29 (UT1) - 25' (10' @22, 10' @23, 5' @24)
6595m/1:54.8/22.4 spm/174 HR/183 MHR
Cooldown - 10'
r5836m

Going back into the office today for the first time, so did this session on 12 hours rest and definitely felt it in the legs - was supposed to do 30' but just didn't have it. Should be on schedule moving forward, though.
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Old 04-06-2021, 09:16 AM   #8513
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Re: Monte's Log, Featuring a Debate About Dotard Genetic Potential with an Ant

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did you read through the link I posted in my thread?

Itís admittedly very dense and not the easiest read but they have suggested UT1 and UT2 paces for a cycle dependent on what your 2k goal time is

I havenít finished going through it and planning my next cycle but Iím gonna be doing it today
Definitely dense but it was a good skim; given your time/attention constraints, it seems perfect. One thing I'll note that aligns with what Gardner says is that my UT2 pace is underdeveloped in comparison to my UT1, AT, and TR paces as per their chart; it's a bit discouraging given how much UT2 I've done over the last year, but as a decade+ member of team nocardio, not a huge surprise.

4/6
ULD26 (UT3) - 30' @2:14.1

Seems not productive to note specifics for these sessions.
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Old 04-07-2021, 01:08 AM   #8514
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Re: Monte's Log, Featuring a Debate About Dotard Genetic Potential with an Ant

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Definitely dense but it was a good skim; given your time/attention constraints, it seems perfect. One thing I'll note that aligns with what Gardner says is that my UT2 pace is underdeveloped in comparison to my UT1, AT, and TR paces as per their chart; it's a bit discouraging given how much UT2 I've done over the last year, but as a decade+ member of team nocardio, not a huge surprise.

.
agree - going off my 2k time off 6.56, it gives me a 1.54.5 UT1 and a 2.00/500 UT2 pace...which make those training schedules far more challenging than I'd assumed they would be.

my assumption had been that UT2 was in the 2.05-2.10/500 range and that UT1 for me would be around the 2.00 pace. I guess it's good...I like each session to feel difficult
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Old 04-07-2021, 02:28 PM   #8515
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Re: Monte's Log, Featuring a Debate About Dotard Genetic Potential with an Ant

4/7
Warmup - 10'
LD30 (UT2) - 60'
14558m/2:03.7/16.1 spm/163 HR/177 MHR

60' total was programmed, but I felt good so stretched out the working piece to 60' flat.

When you hit the "Just Row" button instead of programming in a fixed training duration, the computer breaks up the row into 5' blocks; over the course of the piece, I ramped up from 2:06.7 to 2:01.3, negative splitting the whole way. I felt pretty strong, which, given I slept 9 hours and didn't row at 6 in the morning, makes sense.

Friday will be a 90' session, after which I get next month's programming, so we'll see what we see.
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Old 04-08-2021, 12:07 PM   #8516
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Re: Monte's Log, Featuring a Debate About Dotard Genetic Potential with an Ant

Good job Monte. Do you know how many calories you burn in a typical rowing workout (or, preferably, how many you typically burn over some length of time or training intensity)? I think that could help us non-rowers compare it to other types of training.

I assume it's a good burn rate. Your average and max heart rates often exceeds (and almost always at least equals) what I get on a bike ride (147 bpm avg / 164 bpm max on a recent 72 minute ride). For that ride, my Apple Watch says I burned 774 kcal net and 930 kcal total (I log the net).

Also, what do all those abbreviations mean? Google wasn't that helpful. I get the the other rowers are following along just fine, but many of us non-rowers just see you're training hard.
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Old 04-08-2021, 12:44 PM   #8517
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Re: Monte's Log, Featuring a Debate About Dotard Genetic Potential with an Ant

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montecore View Post
4/7
Warmup - 10'
LD30 (UT2) - 60'
14558m/2:03.7/16.1 spm/163 HR/177 MHR

60' total was programmed, but I felt good so stretched out the working piece to 60' flat.
My best guess:

A ten minute warmup, followed by 60 minutes at UT2 (~55% or 60% - 70% max heart rate). 14,558 meters total (not counting the warm-up), at 16.1 strokes per minute, for a rate of 2:03.7 minutes per 500 meters.

500 meters / 2:03.7 minutes * 60 minutes = 14,551 meters, so at least that math works. OTOH, I haven't figured out the heart rate part, as 70% of 177 MHR doesn't seem to correlate to 163 HR. And, no clue on LD30.
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Old 04-08-2021, 02:27 PM   #8518
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Re: Monte's Log, Featuring a Debate About Dotard Genetic Potential with an Ant

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Good job Monte. Do you know how many calories you burn in a typical rowing workout (or, preferably, how many you typically burn over some length of time or training intensity)? I think that could help us non-rowers compare it to other types of training.

I assume it's a good burn rate. Your average and max heart rates often exceeds (and almost always at least equals) what I get on a bike ride (147 bpm avg / 164 bpm max on a recent 72 minute ride). For that ride, my Apple Watch says I burned 774 kcal net and 930 kcal total (I log the net).

Also, what do all those abbreviations mean? Google wasn't that helpful. I get the the other rowers are following along just fine, but many of us non-rowers just see you're training hard.
Thanks!

Re: calorie burn, I don't really track or pay attention, but C2 calculates it based on your weight and data from the machine. It looks like my last UT2 was ~930/hr and UT1 was ~1100/hr. AT and TR vary depending on the specific piece, but you get the idea.

By your next post, it looks like you got the gist of the training zones, but for the rest of the no doubt numerous lurkers, one interpretation is below:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Muny View Post
My best guess:

A ten minute warmup, followed by 60 minutes at UT2 (~55% or 60% - 70% max heart rate). 14,558 meters total (not counting the warm-up), at 16.1 strokes per minute, for a rate of 2:03.7 minutes per 500 meters.

500 meters / 2:03.7 minutes * 60 minutes = 14,551 meters, so at least that math works. OTOH, I haven't figured out the heart rate part, as 70% of 177 MHR doesn't seem to correlate to 163 HR. And, no clue on LD30.
You're correct everywhere; LD30 is just the 30th loading day (my coach's terminology - work days are loading days, recovery and/or light days are unloading days - typically I just row very easily for 30', go for a walk with the family, and/or bring the boys to the park or something).

Re: HR, the first number is a rough average (C2 pulls the last number in each section of the row - five minutes in this case - and averages it) and the second is the highest HR for that session. Based on what I've done over the last 18 months, my true max is probably 195-200, but I haven't tested it.

Re: the HR bands associated with the various training zones on the chart, Gardner thinks those are mostly bullshit, and that while they may apply over the population level, there's enough individual variation that just trying to get the correct feeling and stroke rate down for each training band and collecting data on what corresponds to you specifically is better. Before signing up with him, I was really concerned with keeping my UT2 HR under 150 and all that, but he doesn't think it's valuable to worry about (yet).

Cardiac drift over a session is obviously expected/fine, and as long as the intensity feels fine, I have the green light to go; as I said earlier, he likes to gradually ramp up the pace during a piece. I posted a graph of pace/stroke rate/HR from a session a few weeks ago, and the gradual synchronous increase in all 3 is what he wants. It definitely feels better than just ramming myself into a wall immediately.
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Old 04-08-2021, 03:23 PM   #8519
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Re: Monte's Log, Featuring a Debate About Dotard Genetic Potential with an Ant

Cycling is better calorie burn. Not even close. Don't even think about a C2 Rich.

The main reason is the great outdoors. Much more enjoyable to put in time there than monte's garage (lol).


Cycling also has lower lactate threshold. 147 avg too aggressive, but then again if you hitting the 160s easily, then you probably abnormal. Arjun and montecore are for sure abnormal, feel wrath and Rich probably also. So using 220-age does not apply and looking at the their numbers is pointless.

I am normal. Max is exactly 177. Anything near 170, feel like death. I don't recall the last time I broke 160. Planning to reach my goals in cardio the evgonnaev way.
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Old 04-08-2021, 05:01 PM   #8520
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Re: Monte's Log, Featuring a Debate About Dotard Genetic Potential with an Ant

It's pretty hard to compare rowing to any other form of cardio because there's a fair bit more power involved than most (any?) other form.

4/8
ULD27 (UT3) - 30'
6783m/2:12.6/13.7 spm/120 HR/131 MHR
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Old 04-08-2021, 05:20 PM   #8521
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Re: Monte's Log, Featuring a Debate About Dotard Genetic Potential with an Ant

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Thanks!

By your next post, it looks like you got the gist of the training zones, but for the rest of the no doubt numerous lurkers, one interpretation is below:
The image didn't load:

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Old 04-08-2021, 05:28 PM   #8522
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Re: Monte's Log, Featuring a Debate About Dotard Genetic Potential with an Ant

Weird, shows up for me in app and browser; link here: https://www.freespiritsrowing.com/fo...nds-calculator
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Old 04-08-2021, 05:37 PM   #8523
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Re: Monte's Log, Featuring a Debate About Dotard Genetic Potential with an Ant

I don't think so monte. Cycling is powertacular and also very efficient power.

And like I said, people go on outdoor rides for hours at a time. Super enjoyable and not like rowing in a garage.

cycling > rowing

I don't mention running because lolrunning. I don't row because I am short and not interested in the garage. I don't cycle because i seem to be awful at it, I build lactate at 130. But i will try again for the duathalon.

I think fast hiking very underrated and Mountain jogging legit. LOL gorilla dlwnhill mountain biking.
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Old 04-08-2021, 05:38 PM   #8524
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Re: Monte's Log, Featuring a Debate About Dotard Genetic Potential with an Ant

Quote:
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Thanks!

Re: calorie burn, I don't really track or pay attention, but C2 calculates it based on your weight and data from the machine. It looks like my last UT2 was ~930/hr and UT1 was ~1100/hr. AT and TR vary depending on the specific piece, but you get the idea.
Thanks Monte. That helps a lot. So, C2 is Concept2? They look like nice rowers. Probably a good seller during the pandemic.

Given your HR, those calorie burns sound about what where I figured. Pretty efficient way to go through ~1000 kcal in an hour (for someone sufficiently conditioned to do so).

Quote:
You're correct everywhere; LD30 is just the 30th loading day (my coach's terminology - work days are loading days, recovery and/or light days are unloading days - typically I just row very easily for 30', go for a walk with the family, and/or bring the boys to the park or something).
Makes sense, thanks.

Quote:
Re: HR, the first number is a rough average (C2 pulls the last number in each section of the row - five minutes in this case - and averages it) and the second is the highest HR for that session. Based on what I've done over the last 18 months, my true max is probably 195-200, but I haven't tested it.
That's quite high. I don't doubt it looking at your numbers.

Quote:
Re: the HR bands associated with the various training zones on the chart, Gardner thinks those are mostly bullshit, and that while they may apply over the population level, there's enough individual variation that just trying to get the correct feeling and stroke rate down for each training band and collecting data on what corresponds to you specifically is better. Before signing up with him, I was really concerned with keeping my UT2 HR under 150 and all that, but he doesn't think it's valuable to worry about (yet).

Cardiac drift over a session is obviously expected/fine, and as long as the intensity feels fine, I have the green light to go; as I said earlier, he likes to gradually ramp up the pace during a piece. I posted a graph of pace/stroke rate/HR from a session a few weeks ago, and the gradual synchronous increase in all 3 is what he wants. It definitely feels better than just ramming myself into a wall immediately.
I feel the same. As you can tell by the numbers I just posted, I pay no attention to max heart rate or upper ranges in my training. I certainly don't slow down to keep them lower.

IMO they are good guidelines but, as Loco pointed out, plenty here routinely blow them away. They're probably good for people not going too low and winding up at a lower training range.
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Old 04-08-2021, 05:40 PM   #8525
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Re: Monte's Log, Featuring a Debate About Dotard Genetic Potential with an Ant

Quote:
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Weird, shows up for me in app and browser; link here: https://www.freespiritsrowing.com/fo...nds-calculator
I see 404 - image not found. Maybe a Safari thing?
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