Best troll in this forum in a long time.

Went to Fogo de Chao last night. Are piles of incredibly delicious, nearly raw animal flesh. Still alive.

Rapini, I hope you didn't fall for their salad bar con job; filling up on lettuce in lieu of additional meat is the fish move for sure.

What do I look like, some sort of ethical vegan?

I get it guys. I'm not one of the cool kids. I don't belong in your 'do you even lift bro' meathead culture you have around here.

Moving on....

Let's talk more about the heart of the matter: Meat. Specifically let's talk about arguably the most revealing statement in the history of evidenced based nutrition (The USDA admitting that eggs are not healthy comes in a solid second):

Source.

So IF we decided to let loose and go all crazy and base our food choices on the scientific research of the National Academy of Sciences, I.E. "the most prestigious scientific body in the United States"!!, we end up coming to a very simple and clear conclusion: Eliminate all animal products from our diet.

Now that may sound "extreme" to some, but hey what can I say, when one follows the evidence they shouldn't expect to always reach comfortable truths. Besides that, I'm not so sure what's so "extreme" about eating whole grains, legumes, fruits, vegetables, nuts, and seeds. So many delicious, health promoting dishes can be created from those options. Today I had a tofu & chickpea scramble loaded with tomatoes, mushrooms, garlic, onions, bell peppers, cilantro, herbs and spices along with cinnamon raisin whole grain toast with walnut butter and sliced strawberries on top. It was ****ing amazing! But yeah maybe the "Associate Professor of Epidemiology and Nutrition [at] Harvard University" might find that too "extreme". "Extreme" is a pretty subjective word tho. Believe it or not, some people actually find open heart surgeries, dropping dead of a heart attack, and colon cancer pretty extreme. Whatever floats one's boat I suppose.

Ok let's do a very quick review:

1) According to the World Health Organization, processed meat is a group 1 carcinogen like tobacco smoking and asbestos. Also, according to the WHO, red meat, defined as "all mammalian muscle meat, including, beef, veal, pork, lamb, mutton, horse, and goat" is "probably carcinogenic to humans".

2) According to Harvard, if you like life you should switch out your animal protein consumption for plant protein.

3) According to the National Academy of Sciences, I.E. the most prestigious scientific body in the United States, "if we were truly basing [our eating decisions] on science", we should stop eating all animal products.

So that's the World Health Organization, Harvard, and the National Academy of Sciences all pointing in the same direction. Is this evidence not compelling enough for you guys to admit meat is not health promoting? Did I cherry pick too much? Are these 3 institutions too hippy and radical for you? R U MAD you just bought that gallon of whey protein powder from GNC before reading this poast?

you should have been aborted

ILP -

Would be willing to prescribe me a day of food based on my current macros? I don't want to change my kcals or protein based on current body comp and performance, but I'm curious to see what a day would look like if you ate my macros.

G4S,

Ton of chickpeas, tofu, and lentils. It's possible, but not a diet anyone could realistically enjoy eating.

Why can't you enjoy a diet like that? I could easily eat G4S's diet in vegan whole foods and love every bite, though I'd have to spread it out over two days to consume that many calories. OP's health claims are obviously ridiculous, but unless he's a terrible cook, the food he eats is probably delicious.

Yeah Greg is actually on point for once. Vegan and vegetarian food can be absolutely delicious.

Not really what I'm saying. I'm saying to have such a high protein ratio he would have to consume like 90% of his food volume as chickpeas or extra-firm tofu. A palatable vegan diet is not going to be as protein dense as he wants. He knows he's asking a trick question.

"Theoretically edible" and "delicious" aren't the same thing. And this is coming from someone that loves vegetables more than most/all evil consumers of flesh.

The fact that these 2 specific people aren't going on like OP about vegetarian/vegan the entire podcast makes it very likely that I don't need to spend the time going down OP's rabbit hole of links.

I know what you're saying and you're wrong.
This is true. However I still contend that I could eat G4S's macros and it would be delicious, but there's no way I could eat 4,000 cal in day. (Unrelated: Do people who eat 300g of chicken-based protein a day love every bite?)

Anyway, I'm now going to look at G4S's log to see if I'm full of **** and how much I'm embarrassing myself. I assume it's in the range of 250-300g protein from 3.500-4,000 calories, and something like 2 blocks of tofu, another bean dish, a gluten dish and some edamame should cover it, with room left over for a tofu cheesecake. If you don't think tofu, black beans, lentils and edamame are delicious, then that's not something I can really solve.

greg,

Are you engaging in a personal challenge to make even more terrible posts than ILP?

Why is it terrible posting to correct an obviously wrong statement? It's easy to eat a ton of delicious plant-based food and hit G4S's macros. I'm sorry that's hard for you to understand. Maybe all that cholesterol is clogging your brain tubes.

gregorio,

Are you talking about eating the same macro ratio as G4S, but conceding you couldn't eat the same macros since it would be too much food? It seems to me that you are since you're talking about spreading it out over two days and it being too many calories for a day.

If so, ok, but that's not what G4S is talking about. He doesn't want to eat 2000 calories a day.

greg,

I find it pretty hard to stuff down 300 g of chicken breast sourced protein unless it's marinated with veal tears, but that may just be me.

And, as you've already acknowledged, my point was not that it's theoretically impossible to reach G4S's daily macros as a vegan, more that it's far from optimal in terms of palatability or for MPS. I'm scheduled for about 250 g of protein today, much of which is coming from beans, so I'm not trying to deny that individual vegetable dishes can be delicious. I'm merely saying that, performance issues aside, 3k calories per day of rice/potatoes, fruit and vegetables would make me put a gun in my mouth within the first week. I'd probably also baste the outside of the barrel in bacon grease before ending it all, but again, that could just be me.

I'm not sure why everyone is piling on Greg here. Land O Lakes already solved this one: 10kg of broccoli. We get the protein and stay within the calorie allotment. And also, broccoli is delicious.

G4S average over the last 8 days he logged his macros: 4389 calories and 230g protein.

There is no way I can eat 4389 calories a day, so that's why I'm saying I could eat this spread out over two days, and even then it would be more then I usually eat. But if I wanted to eat 4389 calories and 230g protein in a day, I could, for example do this, and everything would be delicious:

Breakfast:
1/2 block of scrambled tofu: 250c 23g
10 slices tempeh bacon 190c 20g
1 cup soy milk 130c 8g

Snack: 1 cup Edamame 376c 33g

Lunch:
1/2 Seitan loaf: 300 cal 46g
2 cups Lentil soup 400c 28g

Snack: 1/2 block crispy baked tofu 250c 23g

Dinner:
bean dish with 1.5 cup beans 375c 23g
2 cups quinoa 440c 16g

Desert:
1/2 tofu cheesecake 1088c 45g

3800 calories, 265g protein

450+ calories of fruit and veggies

Didn't bother with the other macros, but my point is that it is easy to eat delicious food that meet a gorilla's caloric and protein requirements using only a plant-based diet. I am not advocating that anyone does this--IDGAF how much meat you eat--and I'm not saying this is healthier and you'll live longer, but the notion that it is difficult to come up with a way to meet G4S's requirements on a plant-based diet is wrong.

I assumed he was eating more than 265 and fewer calories. Nonetheless, touche, vegan.

Thanks, I'll do some experimenting. I actually think my diet should be moving closer to this. I at least want to hit 30-35g fiber a day without half of it coming from a Quest protein bar. Bought some Brussels sprouts, raspberries, blackberries, and smryna figs and am cycling out cottage cheese, chobani, and my lower fiber veggies because I'd rather eat something higher in either protein or fiber.

Don't think it makes sense for me to give up "processed" meats, though I'm not sure which exactly which meat products I eat are processed. If I spend an hour a day during my prime preparing the fresh meat or some sort of vegetarian high protein substitute, or spend a bunch to get meal plans or eat out from certain healthy places, that's a high cost too. It sucks if my chance of dying from colorectal cancer increases from 1.5% to 2% or I get it a few years earlier, but I don't see negative consequences on the level of something like smoking or even regular binge drinking

It should go without saying to most reading this forum, but the entire gestalt of ILP's posting (that certain foods are "health promoting") is ridiculous because, as has been noted and ignored numerous times previously, he's ignoring dosage, among other things. This is even without addressing that, for those of us that train, vegetable protein is comparatively inferior for a number of reasons. I don't even disagree that eating a bunch of vegetables and fruit is a great thing, but his level of dogmatic ballwashing turns off a number of people that he could potentially convert to at least cutting down on the amount of animal protein they consume.

I'm qualified to answer this, since my first three meals every single day is this (each is 227g chicken and 90g white rice). My first meal is chicken/rice/avocado/tomato and I look forward to it every single day. It's always fantastic. Second meal is chicken/rice/avocado/tomato as well, and is good, but not as good as the first meal. Third meal is chicken/rice with a different variable, could be salsa, bbq sauce, beans, peppers, etc... It's always fine. So to answer your question, yes and no.

Your assumption is a little closer than the 230 average, musta been a low week (or more likely a low weekend).

My average for this week so far is 4177kcal, 320p/526c/93f.

Macro-wise, that seems reasonable. I guess my question, which is kinda what Fabian was getting at, is the food above more voluminous (for lack of a better word) than my current intake?

I have no idea how big a "block" of tofu is. I don't even know if I like tofu.

Quinoa is bleh compared to white rice though, and is much less calorie dense to get the same protein content. And 2 cups is a pretty big serving.

Maybe I'll try this one day, but I suspect it would wreak havoc on my stomach. The days I currently add 100g of beans in, I notice it. So does my wife, lol.

My normal daily fruit and veggie intake is 600-700kcal, so this would be easy.

Not worried about the other macros anyway, carbs and fats are essentially interchangeable for body comp, imo.

Interesting post though, thanks greg.