Ok so telling a person who is overweight and trying lose that weight to stop eating the most calorically dense food on the planet, a disease causing frankenfood product that is 100% pure fat, with no fiber and virtually no nutrients is "dietetic malpractice". Got it bro.

Again, 'extreme' is a subjective term. Some think giving up oils is extreme, others think dying of heart attacks is extreme. To each his own. What's more important is that people are given good information. Once they learn that free oils are not ideal for human consumption in any dose, then they are free to do whatever they want with that info. They can ignore it, they can cut down on oils or they can go oil free. That's up to the individual.

I've already talked about this before. We are talking about unhealthy processed fats like oils. We are not talking about healthy fats attached to fiber, antioxidants, and other phytonutrients like avocados, nuts, and seeds. Did you see me tell NeedToMatter not to eat his flax seeds and chia seeds every day? Do you think I would ever tell someone to not eat super cancer fighting nuts like walnuts and pecans?

Humans have never evolved to eat processed fats and they got by just fine.
And since processed fats are bad for human health for all kinds of reasons, they have NO PLACE in a healthy optimized diet just like refined grains have NO PLACE. It's that simple.

BTW there are traces of trans fats in refined oils:

According to the science of the National Academy of Sciences--the most prestigious scientific body in the United States--"The Only Safe Upper Level of Dietary Trans Fats is Zero" meaning if you base your dietary decisions on the science of the National Academy of Sciences you should eat no processed fats like refined oils.

So if you think I'm "extreme and ridiculous" for telling someone not to consume free oils that's fine. Think what you want, but don't bother me with that bs. Your beef is not with me. It's with the National Academy of Sciences.

The part where he, completely without irony, says "if you really want to learn, watch this" and then links to a 74 minute youtube video, in the year 2018, is really something too. What a posting performance this has been, glad the greens asked him to contain it to this thread at least.

That is because the subject of why people are overweight was tangential to my post which was about oil consumption. I don't have the time to explain EVERYTHING. Ok bro.

EDIT: I wasn't trying to "win" an argument with that video, I was arguing about free oils. The video was mainly posted for those theoretical lurkers that may be interested in the subject.

It really is funny to me how special humans think they are. There are four great ape species on the planet right now (there's actually 8 but we can narrow it down to 4 for simplicity): Chimps/bonobos, gorillas, orangutans, and humans. The first three species eat approx 95-98% plants. Our early human ancestors ate right around that amount too. After all, try eating 100 grams of fiber a day (which only comes from plants) and then fitting a cheeseburger in your diet on top. Lol good luck with that. 60 grams of fiber from plants a day will have you stuffed to the gills. So we can easily infer that our early human ancestors were eating in the exact same range as ALL other great apes (roughly 95-98% plants), which makes sense cuz we ARE a great ape.

Then on top of that we find out that those modern humans that eat in that same range as all great apes, I.E. that evolutionary sweet spot, like the 20th century Okinawans who eat 96% plants, are one of the healthiest and longest living populations ever studied. In fact only the group of Seventh Day Adventists who never eat meat or only once a month beats them out in health/longevity.

And then finally, we have all the evidence in the world showing us that whenever humans dare to deviate from the natural diet of ALL great apes, whenever humans choose to make meat and animal products in general, a part of their daily diet they get fat and sick with life threatening ailments like heart disease and cancer.

We are closer related to chimps/bonobos than they are to gorillas. Because of this fun fact some have called us the third chimpanzee. And yet not only do we think we're not supposed to eat 95-98% plants like everyone else in our fun group, we just happen to believe we need to eat the EXACT diet that food corporations have shoved down our throats ALL our lives. It's just an amazing coincidence that these profit seeking institutions freaking nailed the perfect diet for humans cuz YA GOTTA GET YOUR PROTEIN AMIRITE!!

I'm trimming a few links, starting to get absurd up in here.

Thanks for saving the 74 minute youtube video for those of us who really want to learn

ILP; OK, I've got it! Let's make it an H&F prop bet!

How about 3 months--if you win, I go vegan (or whatever you call it), and if I win YOU go on a lifting program for 3 months.

Obviously I'd have some input on the final program, but would want it to be something you'll like if you give it a chance. Hell I'll even cover your gym membership!

What do you say?

Vegan isn't extreme enough. Veganism will give you all sorts of crazy diseases and it is not the OPTIMAL human diet. See nutritionfacts.com for more info.

Rapini is right. Veganism is not the optimal diet for humans. You can wake up and have delicious vegan donuts for breakfast--a wonderful life shortening mixture of refined grains and added sugar fried in oils. For lunch you can go to a nice vegan restaurant and have a savory pasta dish with refined grain noodles and veggies drenched in oil and drink a coke or pepsi to wash it down. After that for snacks you have potato chips and pretzels. For dinner you have one of those fancy new beyond meat burgers loaded with oils and isolated soy protein with vegan cheese on it which is just more oils in a different form and probably just as bad as real cheese. For dessert you go to the store and by some So Delicious ice cream which is loaded with added sugar. At the end of the day you pat yourself on the back for your moral superiority over those evil meat eaters because you're saving animals and the planet, etc, etc, even tho you're still destroying yourself with nearly every bite rendering you a perfect pawn of big food and big pharma just like every meat eater is.

The "whatever you call it" thing is very simple. You don't let disease causing foods pass through your lips. That means no meat of any kind. I don't care if it's grass fed or been petted all it's life. I don't care if you have a time machine and can get access to fish that isn't loaded with mercy, pcbs and other crap. All meat has animal protein in it which is toxic for human consumption (altho probably not as toxic as protein powder supplements), and that's besides all the disease causing cholesterol, saturated fat, and trans fat naturally found in meat which have no safe upper limit meaning if you follow the logic of the National Academy of Sciences you should avoid ALL animal products. No disease causing food passing through your lips also means, no added sugar, no refined grains, no free oils, and minimizing sodium as best you can. And it goes without saying this also means no alcohol or tobacco.

So the "whatever you call it" diet doesn't even really need a fancy name. Just eat the foods that fight/prevent disease instead of promoting it. This means eat whole grains, legumes, fruits, veggies, fungus (mushrooms/nutritional yeast), nuts, seeds, herbs and spices, and drink only water, unsweetened tea, smoothies made out of fruit and veggies, and maybe black coffee (coffee like white potatoes and even whole grain rice is one of those "controversial foods", I'll let you decide on that). So yeah, the idea is you center your diet around unprocessed plants, hence the title of this thread.

The thing is tho, I'm not really interested in lifting just like no one in this so called "Health and Fitness" forum is really interested in eating healthy. I am going to get a gym membership tho and start running on the treadmill. Honestly I swear. If I'm lying to you it's only cuz I'm lying to myself.

Possibly the greatest thread CliffsNotes of all time.

Rofl

Kinda grunching that, but running could be fine--would probably need to make it 9 months to a year though so you can build up an aerobic base then go on a real training program like one of the Higdon 5Ks. Or maybe yoga or swimming--those are both great and 3 months is a great ramp-up period to get you hooked (and feeling good). Doesn't have to be lifting, but if you get going with something and like it you probably will want to work in some lifting for assistance--just be ready with an open mind if it seems appealing some day.

The "whatever you call it diet" sounds fine. I'd of course do full compliance, although do not feel any need to find out what the particulars would be since you have *absolutely no chance* of winning. You could say I'm only allowed to eat hats, would make no difference. And I don't drink or smoke for like a decade now. I already eat a lot of veggies and sometimes make vegan meals which the wife enjoys--none of those packaged stuff, but I frankly like my meat so don't think it would be painless.

Sounds like we're heading towards a yes here?

When I do work out it's not gonna be anything hardcore. The standard exercise I do when I'm on a roll (which has only been a few times in my life) is 30 min on the treadmill at 5mph, 7 days a week. I can handle that easily even if I haven't moved in years. I ran track in high school so I'm mentally prepared for the grind, it's getting started that's the toughest part. After Michigan wins the Big Ten championship game and makes the playoffs, I plan to start this regimen.

The particulars are simple. Think of all the foods that cause cancer: Beef, chicken, turkey, pork, fish, duck, IOW all meat, cheese, milk, eggs, IOW all dairy, added sugar, free oils, refined grains, I.E. processed junk in general, and too much sodium. Don't eat those foods. Now think of all the foods that fight/prevent cancer: fruit, veggies, whole grains, legumes, nuts, seeds, herbs and spices. Eat them.

You know what, we'll call this diet what it should be called, an evidenced based diet. IOW if definitive evidence came out tomorrow that fried pig's feet lowers cancer/heart disease rates then you can put that on the menu. Conversely, if very strong evidence comes out tomorrow showing that broccoli consumption shortens lifespan, it's off the menu.

Until then, you'll have to follow the evidence of vegan propaganda outlets like the National Academy of Sciences or Harvard which says "substition of plant protein for animal protein" is a sweet idea if you like life and like living longer. Or as the chair of Harvard's Department of Nutrition put it:

Source.

Or just listen to the 2015-16 president of another vegan propaganda institution, the American College of Cardiology, Dr. Kim A. Williams, a person who knows more about heart disease than everyone in this forum put together. In one famous sentence he explained why he went plant-based: "I don’t mind dying, I just don’t want it to be my fault".

You don't really like meat tho. Nobody really does. Ok maybe Jeffrey Dahmer does, but outside of deranged exceptions, no human really likes meat. Think about it. What makes steak taste so ****ing good? Hint: It ain't the steak. Take away all the salt, spices, herbs, etc and it would be completely tasteless. Seriously, boil some beef, chicken, etc. Put nothing on it. Try to eat it. Not fun at all. Or how bout this. Make a meat smoothie. Blend up some raw fish, raw chicken, raw beef, add some water to make it drinkable. Would you wanna drink that? No of course not. Every carnivore in the world would love that drink just as every carnivore in the world would love some boiled plain beef or chicken.

If you really liked meat, not only would you have no problem pulling over if you saw a fresh kill on the side of the road, you would literally thank god, buddha, flying spaghetti monster, etc for such a golden opportunity to pull over and dig in. But of course that doesn't sound appealing at all. Every carnivore would give anything for that opportunity as you surely know. Lastly, if you really liked meat just looking at a pig or a cow at a petting zoo would make your mouth start to water in hunger. And yet that never happens.

The same goes with cheese or eggs. Few people realize that cheese is loaded with sodium. Take away the salt and now it's just bland coagulated cow goo. No one would eat it. And who would eat eggs without salt/pepper or other seasonings? No one except people brainwashed by the egg industry to believe cancer promoting eggs are a good source of protein.

So you think you like meat, but the truth is you have been culturally programed and conditioned to like meat. But the story only ends there if you let it. You can continue to be a pawn of the meat, dairy, egg, and pharmaceutical industry helping them make billions of dollars every year, increasing your cancer/heart disease/other disease rates with every bite. Or you can seriously look at the evidence and make a change.

kidcolin does, IIRC.

Salt, pepper and seasonings make all food taste better but I have been camping where the salt and pepper was forgotten and the kangaroo was still as tasty as ever.

No salt but I typically grease the pan with salted butter. Pepper and hot sauce tho.

No, I really do like meat. Don't blame me because most Americans have a salt addiction--but it's not like they can eat vegetables without salt or spices neither. I do boil and straight eat chicken; it's fine. Raw meat smoothie doesn't sound that appealing but then neither does uncooked rice or potatoes; WTF are we talking about here? (Also, sounds like YOU never tried a bullshot.) I do eat sushi and sashimi, raw sea urchin by the bucket if they have it, raw eggs in plenty of noodle and rice dishes (often with raw beef as well), had raw chicken in Japan where it's a thing, steak tartar whenever it's offered including bringing home a fresh steak and just slicing it myself (generally only when the wife is out of town as she finds it somewhat revolting). I remember when my staff took me out to this famous burger place in NY for my birthday because they said I looked so disappointed until I saw the steak tartar burger and my face lit up like a christmas tree.

Where I come from, people drive around with claim tags to slap on roadkill and legally own it. The time I hit a deer, I hurried to throw it in the Jeep before someone came up and STOLE it form me, though it wouldn't legally be stealing. Otherwise, how do you think I would even know it's fresh? I grew up around farms; that IS how I think of pigs and cows. I don't see why a petting zoo would be any different except I assume they wouldn't look as appealing since they're not being fattened up for slaughter.

Seriously you're being silly to argue with me about this; I really like meat. Luckily I have one of those genetic lines with no heart disease anywhere. Luckily for you, I mean, since this way I have no motivation to investigate your claim that the cure for heart disease has been discovered.

Now where were we on negotiating the terms...ah yes, you; How about running this program culminating with a 5K:

https://www.halhigdon.com/training-p...ing/novice-5k/

Since you ran track I'd expect you to know how long it'd take you to get rolling before starting this, and/or whether this would be too basic for you and the intermediate or advanced would be better. I'd think at least a month which would put this at about a 3 month duration.

Also still open to a yoga membership instead--especially for a power yoga or hot yoga studio as it's more of a workout than relaxing stretching.

Plus at this point I guess we'd be wagering on 12-1 nonSEC champ Bama beating out 12-1 B1G champ Michigan or Ohio State to make the playoffs, and I'll tell you this one is not nearly as one-sided since I concede Bama has *some* equity in this scenario. Also still willing to let you owe me until next year if you'd prefer a cash basis, while naturally I would pay up immediately.

Don't think I won't resort to posting gifs of chickens itt.

I can already see ILP jumping out of his car to get ready to munch when he sees some tasty plants growing on the side of the road.

I'm going to sous vide some pork tenderloin today. Wish me luck on not dying.

Maybe you should stick to just copying and pasting others' content.

https://educateinspirechange.org/hea...ell-customers/

GL

Yes because as we all know, cancer is a highly contagious disease.

Obviously slow-ponied by Renton, but I was gonna say it's a good thing he cuts out the cancer so that the humans don't catch it and cancer becomes a human disease.

Either way, the sous vide pork did not kill me and it was quite delicious. Having the leftovers today.

Suboptimal decisions ITT.