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ITT we discuss the optimal diet: A Whole Food Plant Based Diet ITT we discuss the optimal diet: A Whole Food Plant Based Diet

08-03-2021 , 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Muny
Maybe, if you can get your macros under control and try hitting the gym, you too can have a physique you'd be willing post publicly.

You seem to obsess over my photo. It must be embarrassing for you to see what hard work and a good diet can do.



Racist much?
I actually commend you on your hard work and results…

It’s just more the idea of a 52yo needing validation on the internets that has me amused.

You could have just said I’m in good shape at 52 and I would believed you. My point stands that you might have had better or worse results and we will never know because you will never be willing to think outside the box and try veganism. You are also a lost cause because in your world view you were successful so why would you ever feel the need to change or grow. You have all the answers so there’s actually no point in even trying to converse with you.
ITT we discuss the optimal diet: A Whole Food Plant Based Diet Quote
08-03-2021 , 01:00 PM
This is H&F. Many of us post progress pictures and I had posted that one in H&F previously. Sorry if that either bothers you or amazes you.

And, converse and convince are different things.
ITT we discuss the optimal diet: A Whole Food Plant Based Diet Quote
08-03-2021 , 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Muny
This is H&F. Many of us post progress pictures and I had posted that one in H&F previously. Sorry if that either bothers you or amazes you.

And, converse and convince are different things.
I meant converse. I know I could never convince you.

Ya just cuz it’s standard in HF to post topless pictures you’re never going to convince me that is normal. It’s completely narcissistic, especially when people post like 8 times in a thread and no one responds they use it as a log.

It’s really weird as an outsider. It often has me asking does this guy realize nobody cares?

It makes sense that a narc would lack the self awareness.
ITT we discuss the optimal diet: A Whole Food Plant Based Diet Quote
08-03-2021 , 01:23 PM
For men, it's typically referred to as shirtless. And, I'm from Florida and taking off a shirt isn't the weird thing you make it out to be. If you look at fitness magazines or websites, it's not that hard to find shirtless pictures.
ITT we discuss the optimal diet: A Whole Food Plant Based Diet Quote
08-03-2021 , 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohemianwrapsody
You have all the answers so there’s actually no point in even trying to converse with you.
ITT we discuss the optimal diet: A Whole Food Plant Based Diet Quote
08-03-2021 , 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohemianwrapsody
You have all the answers so there’s actually no point in even trying to converse with you.
Have you heard about the pot conversing with the kettle?
ITT we discuss the optimal diet: A Whole Food Plant Based Diet Quote
08-03-2021 , 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Muny
Have you heard about the pot conversing with the kettle?
Topless kettle?
ITT we discuss the optimal diet: A Whole Food Plant Based Diet Quote
08-03-2021 , 04:44 PM
I actually don’t have all the answers.. I am genuinely curious what the optimal diet is… I would gladly listen to any ideas…

It’s just the premise of this thread is wfpb as an optimal diet
ITT we discuss the optimal diet: A Whole Food Plant Based Diet Quote
08-03-2021 , 09:24 PM
The thread topic is discussion of the WFPD. ILP opined that it's optimal when he started the thread, but that doesn't constrain discussion in any way. Also, FWIW, in H&F OP doesn't maintain any type of ownership of non-log threads (not that ILP has sought any type of control).
ITT we discuss the optimal diet: A Whole Food Plant Based Diet Quote
08-03-2021 , 10:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohemianwrapsody
I meant converse. I know I could never convince you.

Ya just cuz it’s standard in HF to post topless pictures you’re never going to convince me that is normal. It’s completely narcissistic, especially when people post like 8 times in a thread and no one responds they use it as a log.

It’s really weird as an outsider. It often has me asking does this guy realize nobody cares?

It makes sense that a narc would lack the self awareness.
Bruh, you dug up PPA vids from 10 years and ago mocked him for being fat. He then posted a recent pic, and then you pivoted and talked about neck height and narcs. Sometimes, like loco knows, you gotta fold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohemianwrapsody
I actually don’t have all the answers.. I am genuinely curious what the optimal diet is… I would gladly listen to any ideas…

It’s just the premise of this thread is wfpb as an optimal diet
Optimal for what? There are many metrics to factor in when determining what is optimal.
ITT we discuss the optimal diet: A Whole Food Plant Based Diet Quote
08-04-2021 , 11:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Land O Lakes
You seem to keep lumping me in with all these people. Why do you think I'm trying to make you a vegan when I clearly stated that I let people do what they want?
I see the difference.
ITT we discuss the optimal diet: A Whole Food Plant Based Diet Quote
08-16-2021 , 09:58 PM
What are pure vegetarian, OPs, topless guy, and trolls thoughts on Red Bull energy drink and other such drinks?

I’m usually like 99.9% against energy drinks and synthetic crap and as a general rule of thumb I think if you can’t pronounce what you’re ingesting it’s probably not a good idea.

I had a long road trip a couple months ago and my brother in law suggested Red Bull. I didn’t/don’t like the taste so I never was really into RB. My BIL drove to our destination so it was only fair I drove back. Except I got really tired and since I don’t like the way caffeine gets me jittery I wanted something else. So I drank a Red Bull and was able to drive 6 hours.

So then I tried another road trip down the coast which I just completed w the aid of RB.

But now I feel the “crash” of the Red Bull’s wearing off and kinda hate the fact they work so well because I really don’t want to ever be drinking them unless it’s an emergency and I need to stay awake. If I had it over again I would just take more breaks and not drink any RB.

There’s also the fact my BIL drinks 5 of these per day and I’m genuinely concerned for his well being. I can almost see myself becoming addicted to RB bc it works so well to give you that boost. If I had a real job where I needed to be attentive 9 to 5 I would want to be on RB too so I can’t blame him.

But how dangerous is this fake stuff?
What exactly do they put in it?

I’ll also add that RB brings me back to college nights doing nose nachos minus the awful side effects. In essence RB is legalized speed in a can for $2.50 a pop for a 1-3 hour “high”… it literally has me questioning how this stuff is even legal to sell among other things.

So what are some vegan or wfpb alternatives to getting this energy when you’re feeling tired?
ITT we discuss the optimal diet: A Whole Food Plant Based Diet Quote
08-17-2021 , 03:49 AM
It is mostly caffeine. If you go to Wal-Mart, you can get 1000 doses of "legalized speed" for around $10.
ITT we discuss the optimal diet: A Whole Food Plant Based Diet Quote
08-17-2021 , 05:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotThremp
It is mostly caffeine. If you go to Wal-Mart, you can get 1000 doses of "legalized speed" for around $10.
What about synthetic taurine?

Why do I feel so different then when I drink a coffee or tea which has similar amounts of caffeine?
ITT we discuss the optimal diet: A Whole Food Plant Based Diet Quote
08-17-2021 , 08:03 AM
For someone who consumes virtually no taurine, it may have an effect of improving metabolic processes. For staying awake? Prob nothing.

You probably feel different because you have an extremely warped relationship with food.
ITT we discuss the optimal diet: A Whole Food Plant Based Diet Quote
08-17-2021 , 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotThremp
For someone who consumes virtually no taurine, it may have an effect of improving metabolic processes. For staying awake? Prob nothing.

You probably feel different because you have an extremely warped relationship with food.
Plz explain this
ITT we discuss the optimal diet: A Whole Food Plant Based Diet Quote
08-17-2021 , 05:40 PM
LOL what do you think about energy drinks? Caffeine? Etc
ITT we discuss the optimal diet: A Whole Food Plant Based Diet Quote
08-22-2021 , 12:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohemianwrapsody
Plz explain this
From the Mayo Clinic site:

Quote:
Taurine is found naturally in meat, fish, dairy products and human milk, and it's also available as a dietary supplement.
As you don't consume those foods and as you state an aversion to synthetic additives, (not) Thremp is suggesting that you may have low taurine and may have reacted to the taurine in Red Bull as a result.

The taurine in Red Bull is a positive, as is the vitamin B. The stimulant is just caffeine -- 80 mg vs. 95 mg in an 8 oz. cup of coffee. The sugar is a negative IMO, but those okay with artificial sweeteners can get Red Bull Zero or Red Bull Sugar Free.

And, that's pretty much it. If you're okay with coffee from a health perspective, you should be fine with Red Bull too.
ITT we discuss the optimal diet: A Whole Food Plant Based Diet Quote
08-22-2021 , 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Muny
From the Mayo Clinic site:



As you don't consume those foods and as you state an aversion to synthetic additives, (not) Thremp is suggesting that you may have low taurine and may have reacted to the taurine in Red Bull as a result.
Ok plz explain why my brother in law who is not a vegan has been addicted to Red Bull since I met him and has no energy when he doesn’t drink it.

Also I drink caffeine and I honestly hate the way it makes me feel and can’t focus like I can on Red Bull.
ITT we discuss the optimal diet: A Whole Food Plant Based Diet Quote
08-22-2021 , 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohemianwrapsody
LOL what do you think about energy drinks? Caffeine? Etc
Don't use energy drinks, and caffeine makes me lethargic.
ITT we discuss the optimal diet: A Whole Food Plant Based Diet Quote
08-22-2021 , 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Land O Lakes
Don't use energy drinks, and caffeine makes me lethargic.
You don’t use energy drinks? Or are you suggesting for others to not use?

Ya coffee is bad because it’s acidic so long term it’s going to make you lethargic. My wife is addicted to coffee and is literally angry until she gets that boost. Also judging from the lines at Starbucks caffeine addiction might be an epidemic.

I’m not really into caffeine. I’ve noticed if I drink it too late in the day it can keep me up at night.

—-

What do body builders take when they need energy?
What are some natural solutions?
ITT we discuss the optimal diet: A Whole Food Plant Based Diet Quote
08-22-2021 , 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohemianwrapsody
You don’t use energy drinks? Or are you suggesting for others to not use?

Ya coffee is bad because it’s acidic so long term it’s going to make you lethargic. My wife is addicted to coffee and is literally angry until she gets that boost. Also judging from the lines at Starbucks caffeine addiction might be an epidemic.

I’m not really into caffeine. I’ve noticed if I drink it too late in the day it can keep me up at night.

—-

What do body builders take when they need energy?
What are some natural solutions?
I'm saying I don't use energy drinks, and caffeine has always had the opposite reaction on me. I get so lethargic that if you gave me a pot of coffee and covid19, loco might beat me in a race.

Bodybuilders love them some stims.
ITT we discuss the optimal diet: A Whole Food Plant Based Diet Quote
08-22-2021 , 10:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohemianwrapsody
Ok plz explain why my brother in law who is not a vegan has been addicted to Red Bull since I met him and has no energy when he doesn’t drink it.

Also I drink caffeine and I honestly hate the way it makes me feel and can’t focus like I can on Red Bull.
Your brother-in-law is probably tired from arguing with you.
ITT we discuss the optimal diet: A Whole Food Plant Based Diet Quote
08-23-2021 , 07:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Muny
Your brother-in-law is probably tired from arguing with you.
Even though this was meant to be quick witted insult it actually brings up a good point.

As more of an empath maybe I do put the worlds weight on my back more than the average person. It can be energy draining to have your mind working at a mile a minute. This believe it or not just brought me some introspective. Part of the reason I’m always spinning my proverbial wheels is bc my mind is always racing.

And yes it’s totally possible that he would be drained by this.

But that doesn’t explain why Starbucks has a line out the door every morning for coffee.

That to me says lack of energy and alertness is a massive problem in the US and I’m guessing around the world.
ITT we discuss the optimal diet: A Whole Food Plant Based Diet Quote
08-28-2021 , 04:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohemianwrapsody
What are pure vegetarian, OPs, topless guy, and trolls thoughts on Red Bull energy drink and other such drinks?

I’m usually like 99.9% against energy drinks and synthetic crap and as a general rule of thumb I think if you can’t pronounce what you’re ingesting it’s probably not a good idea.

But how dangerous is this fake stuff?
What exactly do they put in it?



So what are some vegan or wfpb alternatives to getting this energy when you’re feeling tired?
Any drink with forms of added sugar are thrown in the processed junk category as far as I'm concern. I.E. no place in an optimal/health promoting diet. There are also other more concerning reasons one should stay away from energy drinks:



Transcript:

Quote:
The first energy drink dates back more than a half century: Dr. Enuf, launched in 1949. Now, there are more than 100 brands—an industry now selling $50 billion of the stuff a year. They’re popular on military bases, but some military leaders have questioned their safety, based on data like this: the skyrocketing number of energy drink-related emergency room visits over recent years. But, if you look at some of the reports, you see cases like this: 24-year-old guy who didn’t feel well after drinking a can of energy drink and three bottles of vodka.

Because energy drinks are often co-consumed with other substances, it’s hard to tease out the culprit. Same problem with population studies. Sure, “[a]dolescents drinking energy drinks are at risk of a wide range of negative outcomes,” but energy-drink consumers are also more likely to drink soda and have other unhealthy habits, are more likely to binge drink, take diet pills, and engage in other risky behaviors. So, the only way to tease out the energy drink component is…to put it to the test.

One of the concerns that has been raised by public health advocates in terms of potential negative effects is increased blood pressure. But have people chug a can of Red Bull and 30 minutes later, no significant change in blood pressure. Okay, but that was the little eight-ounce can. What about the 16-ounce big cans of Red Bull? Forty minutes later, no significant change there, either. So, concerns about energy drinks raising blood pressure were dismissed as overblown…until the bomb dropped in 2014.

Red Bull did indeed significantly raise blood pressure after all. The reason the earlier studies missed it is because the spike doesn’t start peaking until like an hour after consumption. So, if you just look at like 30 minutes after consumption, all seems fine. But the worst is yet to come. And, the big shocker was that cerebral blood flow velocity—blood flow in the brain—took a dive. Energy drinks are promoted as having “beneficial effects,” but this instead would suggest they’re “potentially harmful because of the extra cardiac work load and the decreased [brain] blood flow velocity…”

Researchers subsequently looked at other brands. Here’s Rockstar brand energy drink—significantly elevating blood pressure within just 30 minutes. Yeah, but wait a second. Is it just the caffeine? Is it any different than just drinking a cup of coffee? To figure that out, you’d have to compare the effects of an energy drink with just a plain drink with the exact same amount of caffeine. But there’s never been such a study…until now.

A “randomized, double-blind, controlled, crossover study” in which “young, healthy volunteers” were randomized to drink two large cans of an energy drink or a control drink that had the sugar and the same amount of caffeine, but none of the other “proprietary blend ingredients” like taurine, carnitine, ginseng, guarana, and all the other stuff they add.

And, it turns out it wasn’t just the caffeine: significantly higher blood pressure on the energy drink than the exact same amount of caffeine in the control group. What’s this higher “QT interval” thing, though? On an EKG, it’s the distance from the beginning of the downward Q wave to the end of the bump of the T wave. Okay, so who cares? “QT…prolongation,” which is what the energy drink did—but not the caffeine—”is a recognized marker of increased risk for [oh] fatal arrhythmias,” fatal heart rhythms. That doesn’t sound good. Okay, but by how much? “Prolongation of the QT…interval by more than 60 [milliseconds] is a marker for life-threatening arrhythmias.” And, the energy drink only prolonged it by about 10. But there have been drugs pulled from the market—profitable drugs, bringing in billions of dollars—because of a 5- to 10-millisecond prolongation. So, we really need to start investigating some of these other ingredients in energy drinks.


For example, in 2008, authorities found cocaine in Red Bull drinks. The Red Bull manufacturer “insisted,” however, that they were just adding the coca leaf for flavor, and that all the active cocaine was removed.
Source.



Transcript:

Quote:
Given the “global popularity” of the multibillion dollar energy drink industry, it’s critical we figure out if there are any potential adverse effects. “There are currently more than 500 energy drink products [for sale] on the market today.” “The most popular, and most studied…is Red Bull”—a single can of which was found to bump blood pressure by three or four points within 90 minutes of consumption. What about all the other energy drinks? Studies show they similarly increased blood pressure three or four points on average.

Oh, but come on: three or four points? What’s the big deal? 20% higher risk of dying from a stroke is the big deal, and 12% higher risk of dying from a heart attack. Yeah, but that’s if you have elevated blood pressure day in, day out. To see if Red Bull can increase your day-long average blood pressure you’d have to…put it to the test. A “comparison of the effects of energy drink versus [just] caffeine supplementation on…24-hour…blood pressure.”

“The FDA imposes a limit” on caffeine in soda, but the way energy drink manufacturers get around that is by claiming that their carbonated sugar water is not soda, but a “natural dietary supplement…” But, Red Bull doesn’t have any more caffeine than a cup of coffee. The question is, what are the effects of all the other proprietary ingredients they add to the energy drinks? So, they gave people four of the small cans of Red Bull, or four cups of coffee—same amount of caffeine—and then measured their blood pressure over the entire day. Same amount of caffeine, yet significantly higher average blood pressure by about five points over the coffee.
So, maybe it’s the taurine, or some other combination of added ingredients, in energy drinks that makes them so harmful?

Energy drinks may also impair artery function. One big can of Monster Energy drink, and a significant drop in your arteries’ ability to relax normally within 90 minutes. The biggest risk, though, is likely the EKG changes that signal an increase in the risk of our hearts flipping into a fatal heart rhythm. And indeed, there are cases of young people suffering cardiac arrest after consuming like seven or eight cans in a row, or even just three cans back-to-back. Some people are just more susceptible. Yeah, there are a number of case reports highlighting “multiple potentially fatal cardiac side effects from high-energy drinks in the general population.” But, it’s the “families with a history of sudden cardiac death” or fainting that education about the risks are “even more critical,” as energy drinks may unmask a “potentially life-threatening genetic condition such as LQTS”—long QT syndrome, which occurs in about one in 2,000 people.

Yes, there are safety issues, but do the benefits outweigh the risks? Unfortunately, “[l]ittle evidence exists…to support [any] beneficial effects.” What about for athletes, though? That’s who energy drinks were originally marketed for. And boy, did that marketing work, with 80% of college athletes reportedly drinking them. So, does it help? You don’t know…until you put it to the test. And, as you can see by the title, “pre-exercise energy drink consumption does not appear to improve endurance.” But it does seem to increase inflammation. Twenty-five mile simulated road race, and they could not find any “ergogenic potential”—any athletic performance-enhancing potential of Red Bull above that of just straight sugar water and caffeine. “In addition, the data indicate that [Red Bull] induced greater inflammatory-related responses than did just [straight caffeinated sugar water or placebo].”

No apparent effect on resistance training either—not just endurance sports. And, those hoping energy drinks will help rev up their metabolism to lose weight may be disappointed to learn you can get the same stimulatory effects with straight caffeine. Or, maybe they won’t be disappointed—black coffee or tea is way cheaper.

No wonder there was no change in athletic performance, because unlike nitrate-rich vegetables, energy drinks don’t change oxygen utilization or ratings of perceived exertion. But, what they do is raise your resting blood pressure. So, the opposite of vegetables likes beets and greens, which both improve athletic performance and reduce blood pressure at the same time—whereas “[e]nergy drinks [appear to] have no therapeutic benefit.”
Source.

The healthiest source of caffeine is green tea, preferably matcha green tea from Japan:

Quote:
What if you’re eating tea leaves—for example, drinking matcha tea, which is powdered green tea—or throwing tea leaves into your smoothie like I do? In that case, two or three heaping teaspoons is the limit. The exception is Japanese green tea, which is so low in lead that you can safely eat 15 spoonfuls per day, but I caution consuming more than 8 teaspoons given the risk of exceeding the daily recommended limit for caffeine intake for adults.
What about black coffee? Coffee is one of those grey area foods. Past data suggests it's probably marginally healthy on average but more recent data now suggests a different story. There is a genetic component. If youre a slow caffeine metabolizer you should not be drinking it.



From the transcript:

Quote:
Even if a study did show coffee drinking could extend lifespan by reducing inflammation, or improving lung function or insulin sensitivity, that would mean on average. There is “interindividual variability…after consumption of major plant-food…compounds,” meaning people may respond differently. For example, how crazy is this? “In some [rare] individuals,…heavy use of caffeine apparently provokes sleepiness.” That’s an extreme example. Most of the time, it’s just that “some individuals may benefit more than others from the health effects of [different foods].” For example, because of differences in gut bacteria, only a minority of Westerners may derive extra benefit from soy, as I’ve described before. The most common difference in caffeine effects is that while most people metabolize caffeine rapidly, certain gene variants in liver detox enzymes make some people slow metabolizers. Might that make a difference?

Well, habitual coffee consumption of at least three cups a day has been “associated with uncontrolled [blood pressure]” among older individuals diagnosed with hypertension, suggesting that “moderating coffee intake” may be a good idea for some people. But, even if it was cause-and-effect, that would be on average. What would happen if you split people up by how fast they metabolize caffeine? Compared to coffee abstainers, those who have impaired caffeine metabolism genes have an elevated risk of becoming hypertensive at one to three cups a day, and especially at four or more. Okay, but check this out. For the rapid metabolizers, not only was there no excess risk at one to three cups, heavy coffee drinkers were protected, meaning apparently the more coffee they drank, the lower their risk. How do we explain that?

“Coffee is a complex ‘blend’ of a vast number of different [compounds].” There are protective polyphenol antioxidants that are beneficial. Coffee beans are, after all, beans; well, actually, seeds—but seeds are really healthy too! On the other hand, there’s the caffeine, which can spike adrenaline levels in the blood—but only if you’re a slow metabolizer. Rapid metabolizers can clear caffeine so fast that there’s no increase in adrenaline even at four or more cups a day. And so, then you just have the beneficial polyphenols that actually lower your blood pressure—hence the benefit overall. “Thus, there seems to be a Jekyll and Hyde aspect to coffee, whose overall action on the cardiovascular system appears to be regulated by” that gene for the enzyme that metabolizes caffeine.

“The important question,” though is, “Does it give women larger breasts?” W-w-hat?! Young women who drink a lot of coffee and are rapid caffeine metabolizers have about a half-a-baseball-sized larger breast volume, which may be a bad thing, “as breast volume is associated with breast cancer risk.” But no, the important question is, “What about heart attack risk?” In slow metabolizers, daily coffee consumption appeared to double the odds of a heart attack, or even quadruple the odds at four cups a day, whereas in the rapid caffeine metabolizers, daily coffee consumption was protective, cutting the odds of heart attack by more than half—or at least until you get up to four or more cups a day. “The protective effects observed among rapid metabolizers suggest that the efficient elimination of caffeine might have unmasked the protective effects of other [phyto]chemicals in coffee.”

We think it may be the adrenaline again, since if you’re a slow metabolizer of adrenaline, high coffee consumption may put you at risk as well.

So, is coffee “friend or foe”? “[T]hese studies suggest the possibility that slow caffeine metabolizers who consume caffeinated coffee may have an increased risk of [cardiovascular disease], whereas fast caffeine metabolizers may be protected from this risk by the antioxidants and other beneficial compounds present.”
Source.

If one is interested in learning more about this slow vs fast caffeine metabolizer gene watch this Ted Talks vid from the 3:25 mark to 6:21:

ITT we discuss the optimal diet: A Whole Food Plant Based Diet Quote

      
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