Okay so I have been trying to adopt a more healthy eating style for weight loss and total health reasons. I have lost 35lbs so far this year and have been trying to eat less crap.

To help in my journey I watched a couple of Netflix documentaries on diet and health recently and they are often very convincing yet very contradictory.

The Magic Pill - Full blown pro keto claiming base foods should be all animal fat/meat avoiding all carbs. Cure all for whatever ails you!

Forks over Knives - Total opposite of Magic Pill. Meat is death, all plant based food otherwise you will get cancer and die immediately!

The Case for Food - This is much more moderate and my favorite approach. Balanced diet leaning to plant based but all in moderation.

The common link from all of these docs that you want to eat clean and natural food rather than the processed supermarket crap that is loaded with sugar and sucrose and other non nutritious stuff and chemicals that is added in.

Both full blown keto and total vegetarian are both unappealing to me. My plan is to eat eggs and meat with a heavy dose of fruits and veggies while avoiding all processed prepackaged typical supermarket fare. No white flour based foods or sugar added. Everything from the fresh produce and meat sections. I just got a juicer today and plan to put it into action starting tomorrow to get lots of healthy fresh veggies into me I would otherwise ignore.

I just find it confusing to find very well stated and convincing arguments (pro meat vs. no meat) can be so sure of themselves? Anyway my approach is gonna be just to eat mostly clean and fresh food avoiding the crap. Doesn't mean I won't ever eat burgers or pizza or cookies or cake ever again just not regularly and only in moderation. But I am gonna avoid anything in a box or can (except beer!).

Just wondering what insights this forum may have concerning the extremes of pure plant vs. pure keto?

Good **** already losing 35lbs.

In general eat healthy clean food, I don't have any experience with either of the crazy ranges so can't help there. This is going to sound basic, but limiting bad foods and counting calories to hit your weight goals is prolly the best way.

Good luck on your weight loss journey.

Documentaries like Forks over Knives and such are overblown and based on studies that have actually been soundly debunked like the China study.

For weight loss and dieting calorie restriction is king and whatever you can adhere to is your best option.

Within those parameters I'd say whole foods, less processed is better, variety is good. Some meat, veggies fruits rice beans all in good moderation I feel is pretty healthy. I think you will find that most things in moderation is fine. Sugar is fine just not in excess. Salt is fine just not in excess, etc. Of course your individual health considerations and goals will factor into what may be ideal for you as well.

Any view that is heavy handed towards one spectrum or another probably has a target audience that it's helpful for, but nothing is all encompassing. Also outside of diet what your fitness and health goals are matter. Like Keto might be great for someone who's obese and just wants to lose weight, but not ideal for a powerlifter.

Anyways be weary of anyone who is adamant that their philosophy or system is "The way". Hopefully that eases your confusion.

You are on the right track. Proper, not an ideology like the others you mentioned. This is the best studies have come up with. At least both you and I have dropped weight by it. I was a bit more extreme especially in the beginning to the vegetable side, mainly for ensuring low calories intake, not weighing food. Yes, and then a substantial part of me at this point is VLCD (VeryLowCaloriesDiet) smoothies.

Both are a bit extreme. Chances are with these they are only fad diets and eventually you will eventually end up back eating what you want. I adopt a good lifestyle in the week. If I was you I'd pay a little cash to get a diet from a good nutritionist ( I have my quals so did my own)

Have a couple of week without no cheating then you can start to throw a cheat meal or 2 in providing it's within your cal allowance

Eat small 5 times a day if you can to balance the hunger craves ( inevitable you will get them for the first month)

My day is something like this

8 am - whey, protein, oats, thumb size of peanut butter
11.00 am - gold standard nutrition pot. (Chicken , basmati rice, veg with a tad of sauce for flavour)
13.00 - 30 g of almonds or mixed seeds
14.30 shredded wheat and protein powder
16.00 - apple
19.30 - sweet potatoe chicken/ turkey steak/ salad/ veg ( will have a sweet potatoe if I'm not on it hard)
10.30 - skyr high protein yoghurt

I relax it all at weekend unless I'm trying to lose weight then I carry on with a cheat meal or 2 only.


This is lifestyle now and I don't get bored as it's just routine so it's training your brain really

Congrats on the loss so far though. Excellent work

My typical diet has been:

Breakfast - Instant oatmeal with a half cup of sugary dry cereal added in with skim milk (about 300 cals but crappy ones). This is now out! I plan to alternate now with eggs and bacon or sausage and steel cut oatmeal with fruit added.

Lunch - Low calorie (60) low carb (5) wrap filled with either almond only almond butter and a small banana or a small avocado and fresh made salsa. Each about 300 cals. This will stay.

afternoon snack #1 - apple

afternoon snack #2 orange
Plan to replace or alternate snacks with fresh made veggie juices to get stuff like kale, spinach, cabbage, parsley etc. into my diet that I would otherwise avoid like the plague.

Dinner - salad with tomato and a small low calorie English muffin (150 cals). Will replace with small to medium portion of beef/chicken/pork and some sort of veggie.

Evening snack #1 - Fiber one bar and skim milk (100 cals)
Evening snack # 2 another fiber one bar
These things are OUT! Plan to replace with fresh fruit like pineapple, grapes, canalope, honeydew etc. The fiber one bars are pure garbage and keep my addiction to processed carbs and sugar which I know I need to break.

Evening snack #3 (if necessary) small portion of almonds or pistacios (this stays)

I will also munch on grape tomatoes through the day if I have and urge but at 1-2 cals per these are fine.

So the plan from here is to cut out all of the crap like breakfast cereal and fiber one bars while likely upping my calorie count a little but eating far less unnatural carbs and keeping the processed types of food out of my diet while introducing more healthy veggies and fruits as well as meat protein.

Highly restrictive diets such as vegan and keto are very attractive to people who want their diet to be a religion, and also people who want their diet to be something that seperates them from everyone else and makes them feel special and superior.

For the same reason that most leaders of religious organizations/cults are so convinced they practice the correct religion.

I found Forks over Knives to be the least convincing and after your post I googled debunking it and found all sorts of places where they played fast and loose with the facts.

Another one I watched but failed to mention was Hungry for Change which I thought was very good and liked the balanced approach they suggested. But again I think the common link is sticking with fresh "real" food and trying to avoid the processed pre packaged stuff.

Do not glean any nutritional information from Netflix propaganda.

Keto is basically the modified Atkins that was super popular 10-15 years ago that they found out was actually unhealthy. Its good for losing weight, but your brain needs carbs.