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Old 01-19-2011, 10:43 PM   #51
ScoobyDooo
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Re: *** H&F Form Check Thread ***

i didnt mention it but you seem to be lifting the weight up too much with the arms. that isnt how youre supposed to get the bar up there. the bar should be thrown up by the pull from the floor and the power into the bar from the hips, resulting in the jump. its easy to involve the arms too much at light weights though.

Last edited by ScoobyDooo; 01-19-2011 at 10:50 PM.
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:53 PM   #52
bixby snyder
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Re: *** H&F Form Check Thread ***

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Originally Posted by ScoobyDooo View Post
im not an expert on the PC but...
Interesting, appreciate the analysis. I see my starting position is a bit off. I guess my question... I kinda "get" that it should be more hip and less arms, and that should launch the bar higher, but I've just never had luck actually DOING that. Any suggestions on resources, drills, or cues it might make sense for me to revisit to really get that hip thrust going?
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:56 PM   #53
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Re: *** H&F Form Check Thread ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by bixby snyder View Post
Interesting, appreciate the analysis. I see my starting position is a bit off. I guess my question... I kinda "get" that it should be more hip and less arms, and that should launch the bar higher, but I've just never had luck actually DOING that. Any suggestions on resources, drills, or cues it might make sense for me to revisit to really get that hip thrust going?
Gotta learn how to do it from the hang position first.

I like this guide:
http://stronglifts.com/the-ultimate-...-power-cleans/

Also these vids are good:
http://www.californiastrength.com/olwete.html (click on clean tab)
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:59 PM   #54
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Re: *** H&F Form Check Thread ***

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Originally Posted by bixby snyder View Post
Interesting, appreciate the analysis. I see my starting position is a bit off. I guess my question... I kinda "get" that it should be more hip and less arms, and that should launch the bar higher, but I've just never had luck actually DOING that. Any suggestions on resources, drills, or cues it might make sense for me to revisit to really get that hip thrust going?
I've heard doing kettlebell swings is good for feeling "hip thrust."
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Old 01-19-2011, 11:03 PM   #55
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Re: *** H&F Form Check Thread ***

well for starters the tighter starting position will greatly improve the pulling mechanics of the lift and help you generate some power, so that will definitely help. you really need to learn what it feels like to have a good jump...sorry i know it can be hard. rip talks about the jumping position in that first link i posted. keep in mind that the bar must touch somewhere on your upper thigh before you jump, and the jump must start with straight elbows. i also mentioned if this weight is too light for you, itll be very tempting to use your arms. a bit heavier weight may force you into using your bigger muscles with better timing and more efficiency, just out of necessity.
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:59 AM   #56
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Re: *** H&F Form Check Thread ***

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Originally Posted by bixby snyder View Post
Love the idea for this thread, inspired me to finally get some videos up. Would love any feedback, it's been too long since I've checked in with people who know how to lift.

2 sets of squats from tonight from two angles, here and here.
3 sets of PCs tonight from different angles, here here and here.

Should have got presses up too but camera battery was meh. Next time.
i would start w hang cleans as well. your starting position def needs a little cleaning up--i think scooby's description was pretty good (part of that is it looks like u are a reasonably tall guy and doing from the floor cleans w the smaller diameter weights is just gonna be awkward no matter what).

for form review also it'd be easier to tell if u weren't wearing long sleeves because keeping the elbows locked out as long as possible is pretty important. it doesn't look like u are getting near enough power from your hips or your shoulders. really, when you shrug and get your hips into it, you should feel the weight naturally rising and that will break your elbows for you. you are relying too much on your arm strength to get the bar up. ive always been told to think of it sort of as shrugging your shoulders and trying to curl your wrists inward as you extend from the hips. may be worth just practicing some clean pulls w lighter weight to try and feel the way the weight is supposed to come up w/o having to worry about catching it.
http://cathletics.com/exercises/exer...?exerciseID=98
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Old 01-20-2011, 11:40 AM   #57
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Re: *** H&F Form Check Thread ***

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Gotta learn how to do it from the hang position first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsnipes28 View Post
i would start w hang cleans as well... it doesn't look like u are getting near enough power from your hips or your shoulders.
Makes sense-- back to hang cleans I guess. I did them for a while but couldn't really get them right and thought I might be forced into better position coming off the ground. It seems the problem I had with hangs has transitioned over, so I'll go back until I have that fixed. Thanks everyone, expect more clean vids.
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Old 01-20-2011, 11:50 AM   #58
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Re: *** H&F Form Check Thread ***

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I've heard doing kettlebell swings is good for feeling "hip thrust."
I disagree and I think this would teach you the very bad habit of banging your hips against the bar.
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Old 01-20-2011, 04:27 PM   #59
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Re: *** H&F Form Check Thread ***

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I disagree and I think this would teach you the very bad habit of banging your hips against the bar.
I've seen that happen in videos, and I guess I assumed that was desirable. Shows what I know.
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Old 01-20-2011, 05:23 PM   #60
bixby snyder
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Re: *** H&F Form Check Thread ***

@kidcolin and whoever else agrees with his advice on my squats or has advice on my squats-- for a fix, is there anything specific I should be looking to do flexibility or technique wise, or perhaps just make an effort to go deeper next time?
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Old 01-20-2011, 05:35 PM   #61
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Re: *** H&F Form Check Thread ***

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Originally Posted by bixby snyder View Post
@kidcolin and whoever else agrees with his advice on my squats or has advice on my squats-- for a fix, is there anything specific I should be looking to do flexibility or technique wise, or perhaps just make an effort to go deeper next time?
Just make an effort to go deeper. If you can't, just doing the squat should help with flexibility some over time.

Here's an article that includes some mobility drills that may help:
http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=4307430
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Old 01-20-2011, 06:38 PM   #62
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Re: *** H&F Form Check Thread ***

bixby,

looks like your knees aren't shoved out enough. If you don't make enough room to squat between your legs, going deep enough will be hard. So make sure to shove knees out and keep them there. Filming directly from behind is useful for this.

And try to get the feeling of bouncing off your hamstrings. It's a pretty cool feeling once you get it, and makes it easier to hit depth later.
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Old 01-21-2011, 12:04 AM   #63
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Re: *** H&F Form Check Thread ***

Squat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXE4W9OJmTc
Warning: Turn off Audio its very annoying.

Going to get another video up with a better angle soon.

Also for anyone who has videos that are sideways, YouTube has a rotate tool in their YouTube video editor (Go to 'My Uploaded Videos' and the edit button is next to your uploaded videos)

Thanks all
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Old 01-21-2011, 02:29 AM   #64
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Re: *** H&F Form Check Thread ***

This whole webpage is gold, don't know if posted already.

http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/resources

I would read anything Bill Starr has to say, twice.
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Old 01-21-2011, 04:10 AM   #65
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Re: *** H&F Form Check Thread ***

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Squats 63.8kg 3rd work set:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmh_HCw2pPs

On squats, I concentrated to keep my whole body tighter. Not sure how successfully.

Bench press 51kg 3rd work set:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVl6twpLjMs

On the bench press, I used a narrower grip than last time, and imagined I had a tennis ball under my lumbar region to get arch.

Any comments will be appreciated.
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Old 01-21-2011, 04:14 AM   #66
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Re: *** H&F Form Check Thread ***

I've read so much good stuff from bill starr its sickening
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Old 01-21-2011, 11:00 AM   #67
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Re: *** H&F Form Check Thread ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by OhHaiIAmHamster View Post
Bench press 51kg 3rd work set:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVl6twpLjMs

On the bench press, I used a narrower grip than last time, and imagined I had a tennis ball under my lumbar region to get arch.

Any comments will be appreciated.
you got an arch, but it doesn't look like you held your upper back particularly tight or used the arch to put your weight on your traps. instead of setting up and then arching your back, you want to use a setup that will generate the arch on its own. the way i do this is i sit down at the end of hte bench and tuck my feet underneath me with my toes on the floor and then lean back. once you lie back, your toes will be on the floor and not your heels, driving your heels towards the floor will generate an arch and a lot of tightness in the set-up. your feet should not move once you are back. this will also help you get more leg drive into your bench
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Old 01-21-2011, 11:07 AM   #68
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Re: *** H&F Form Check Thread ***

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I disagree and I think this would teach you the very bad habit of banging your hips against the bar.
They are diffirent movements. One can benefit the other without ingraining a faulty movement pattern. The bar should hit the thighs in power cleans. Albeit lightly rather than a 'bang'.
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Old 01-21-2011, 11:44 AM   #69
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Re: *** H&F Form Check Thread ***

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They are diffirent movements. One can benefit the other without ingraining a faulty movement pattern. The bar should hit the thighs in power cleans. Albeit lightly rather than a 'bang'.
The bar should brush the thighs, correct.

Tangentially, I read once (don't recall source) that the problem with talking about getting hips into the clean is that you're going to start getting people hitting the bar with a horizontal force with their hips or thighs. The point was that doing so is so detrimental that it is better just to not mention the hips at all. Obv ymmv.
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Old 01-21-2011, 03:34 PM   #70
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Re: *** H&F Form Check Thread ***

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Originally Posted by PButter View Post
Squat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXE4W9OJmTc
Warning: Turn off Audio its very annoying.

Going to get another video up with a better angle soon.

Also for anyone who has videos that are sideways, YouTube has a rotate tool in their YouTube video editor (Go to 'My Uploaded Videos' and the edit button is next to your uploaded videos)

Thanks all
maybe its just my monitor, but I can't distinguish your black legs from the black background.

Last edited by YetioDoom; 01-21-2011 at 03:35 PM. Reason: racist ban
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Old 01-21-2011, 03:56 PM   #71
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Re: *** H&F Form Check Thread ***

yeah it's really tough to view.
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Old 01-21-2011, 04:03 PM   #72
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Re: *** H&F Form Check Thread ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by PButter View Post
Squat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXE4W9OJmTc
Warning: Turn off Audio its very annoying.

Going to get another video up with a better angle soon.

Also for anyone who has videos that are sideways, YouTube has a rotate tool in their YouTube video editor (Go to 'My Uploaded Videos' and the edit button is next to your uploaded videos)

Thanks all
The squats look pretty solid for now, can't really tell if your shoving your knees out enough due to the darkness.

But I did notice you walked the bar backwards and BLIND to the rack, a little puppy dies every time this happens so you have to make sure from now on, you rack the weights moving/looking foward, never do it moving back.
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Old 01-22-2011, 07:57 AM   #73
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Re: *** H&F Form Check Thread ***

Great OP, thanks a bunch kc.
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Old 01-22-2011, 12:44 PM   #74
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Re: *** H&F Form Check Thread ***

Followup to this post.


Deadlifts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZXVWVBUs_s

My back felt well enough to attempt some deadlifts; same weight as last time though. Was thinking about "push legs into floor" and "pull it back, not up".

Squats:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo6fy_2KS94

Going up in weight per plan. Hopefully form is still OK.

Shoulder presses:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnVct0z3wGk

Trying to get head out of way as weight goes up. Probably still terrible.

Inverted bodyweight rows:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkWRxtzUn-Y

I usually do pullups, but decided to try these for a change. Couldn't figure out a way how to position myself better.


Any help will be appreciated.
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Old 01-22-2011, 01:29 PM   #75
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Re: *** H&F Form Check Thread ***

DLs look just about perfect from that angle.

squats look solid. No major glaring errors. It's a little dark towards your feet and knees so it's hard to tell, but I'm just going to say shove your knees out. Looks like there's a slight knee cave.

press: better, but still could get under the bar faster. Keep a more neutral wrist. You don't want your wrists cocked way back. They should be slightly cocked so the bar is directly in line with your forearm. You could probably be a bit more stable under the bar, too. Blow out your abs, clench your ass, etc etc.
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