No problem! I'm not an expert but I'm always happy to help with deadlifting.

Looks to me like your hips are slightly lower and further back on the 1st picture. That may be where the extra space is coming from. It's also possible you are slightly further over the bar now, which is fine.

There could be some relation to head position: your head position is perfect in pic 1 and so is your upper back and chest, where in pic 2, the head is tilted further back and the upper back is way rounded over. Your adjustment should be better for your neck

I'd try to find that sweet spot for the setup every rep and see if you can pull from that position without your hips shooting up and back rounding.

At some point the back rounding is basically inevitable, but the hips shooting up will always ruin the movement pattern

Agree with AJ on all points.

Beginner DL is the dumbest (as in least challenging, least technical) lift to do.

Just do this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syt7A23YnpA

Don't over analyze it don't overthink it...just do it.

Renton...block pulls? Just ****ing DL and keep posting the videos. You're not going to destroy your back with anything you're doing in the videos.

Do set your shoulders back. You're rounding them forward. You do that and your upper/mid back issue goes away immediately.

Today, I focused on my upper back. Maybe I'm getting tighter than I'm accustomed to, because I felt lightheaded after some of the reps, even at this light weight.

The lean back thing at the top is an ingrained habit, but it looks like I'm not doing it nearly as much as prior.


BPA: Thanks for the advice. I've seen the Rippetoe setup and it simply does not work for me. The "squeeze your chest up" is much easier said than done, and I simply cannot produce a flat back with that cue alone. The improvements I made per AJ's advice originally required me to maintain a flat lumbar during the entire setup (i.e. an RDL motion as I bend over to grasp the bar). Today I just took that and added a more concerted effort of squeezing my chest up before the pull.

You're leaning back thing (what's left of that dynamic start you used to do) just prior to pulling is putting you just behind the bar. Bad deal.

First video 13 seconds mark is about where you should be when you pull....by 15 seconds you are getting behind the bar.

Ultimately, you're not that far off from where you need to be here. If we were in the same gym, it would take about five minutes to get and keep you in proper position. You're almost there.

Round 4:

Deadlift 102.5x4

Keep in mind, this is a max effort set.



Also, I'd like some input on my press form:

Press 37.5x4

Press 40x1

You still need to get your hips further back and down. Your lean is still really bad. The barbell appears to be getting away from you a bit at the start of the lift, which can be the hips shooting up or the upper back not doing its work to keep the barbell close.

I just saw your other post- having the hips higher can be fine, and most huge DLers pull this way, but you still need to get your hips a little lower and further back or you won't be able to reach the bar or get leg drive/lift as much weight.

When you set up, you are starting to use your hips but then hit a point and stop sitting back and get to the bar by leaning forward and rounding. you need to use your hips to get further down. When you breathe and dip, you are already rounded before you start pulling.

Maybe some bodyweight hip extension exercises should help you with hip extension, like an RDL with a barbell. Practicing that as a warmup would help you with flexibility, and especially with the lockout/leaning back. You need to retrain that motor pattern now. Your main challenge seems to be getting the hips in the proper position. BW RDL, squat, glute bridges are examples of mobility/warmup exercises that can assist in this.

Squats should be assisting with the hip extension and depth as well. Are you able to reach parallel in squats with your back in neutral?

Edit- upon rewatching it appears the bar gets away from you the moment the hips rise in rep 1.

So basically you're saying that in the stage where I'm lowering myself down to the bar in a bodyweight RDL, I should continue the RDL motion further than I am to grasp the bar? (Instead of rounding over the upper back to do so.) I think I may be flexibility limited for that, but I'll try it next time.

Barely. Depth is a major challenge for me on the squats, especially as the weight gets heavier. Basically, I can bury them at the cost of leaning forward excessively. If I get really tight and descend slowly, I can barely scratch parallel on most reps of my heavy sets on a good day.

On all reps? Honestly this is something I've never had to address (due to ignorance) and I'm concerned that it's completely ingrained. I will try to address it going forward but my main priority is fixing the setup and the initial pull. I find it's easier to focus on fixing fewer things at a time.

I really don't see this. I try to set up the camera in a direct line with the bar to monitor bar path and it seems pretty straight to me?


edit: How's my upper back this time around?

The problem is that your mid/lower back also rounds. its not just your upper back. You're rounding it when you reach for the barbell.

The whole issue is that your hips are just way too high. They need to get further back and down. You need to sit back. There's no way around that. Squats, SLDL with the barbell, stretching could all help. Are your hamstrings loaded at the start of the movement?

I'm not an expert on deadlift setup and am not sure what other cues are useful. I would look into Eric Cressey's recommendations. Ed Coan has a good video on youtube on how to conventional deadlift.

Is the barbell touching your shins/thighs as it goes up? It looks like it isn't.

Not sure if the lean was on all reps. You're warming up with the barbell right? You should be doing a hip extension type movement with the bar where you practice locking out without leaning back. That would also help you sit back. Something like barbellx20 reps before pulling

This time I focused on keeping hamstrings tight during setup and keeping my shoulders in front of the bar before the pull.

You've made some improvements. You still aren't setting your upper back and its rounded before you start pulling. Bending down that slowly isn't going to stop your back from rounding.

Your hips need to get further back. Is the bar touching your shins and thighs when you pull? Looks like it might not be.

Try to really tighten up hard when you take that breath and are about to pull. Push out and flex abs as hard as you can after the breath. Not sure if you're getting aggressive enough. It's not supposed to be easy to get into the bottom position and you may need to use the bar to physically pull yourself into the right setup. You should be very tight.

I don't agree that you should keep pulling from the ground but I'm sure plenty of good coaches would disagree with me. It seems like you don't have the flexibility to do it without rounding.

I really think you need to do a few basic mobility exercises as a warmup. I don't see how you're going to learn to get your hips back otherwise. It's possible but seems like the most difficult way to achieve the desired result

Why don't you post a warmup set with the barbell and see if you can keep your back from rounding and how far you can get your hips back? Assuming you are warmup up with barbell before pulling

Bending down that slowly seems to help me keep my lower back in check and glutes/hams tight. Upper back I try to set after grasping the bar (apparently this isn't working though).

Not always, but in the recorded set, it is for all reps.


For both squats and deads I do a few drills from Magnificent Mobility. Cat/camels, hip twists, supine scorpions, front/rear kicks, and side kicks. Then I stretch the bottom of a squat while holding the rack uprights for a couple of minutes and finish up with some sets of air squats before going into my warmup sets.

I don't warm up for deadlifts with just the bar, though. I always start with 60 and work up to my heavy set. I'll try what you said and record a set to see how far I can get my hips.

That all sounds good. Working on your squat will also help you get lower in the deadlift. Maybe some additional mobility movements re: deadlifting would help. MM is very good. I think BW or barbell RDL and SLDL could all help.

I have experienced setup problems at heavier weights. I now do a bodyweight deadlift with the bar before I start adding weight and make sure my descents and setup are perfect as possible. If I don't do this I'm more likely to round on my Max effort set.

Just x-posting an excerpt from my log. Sorry that I didn't pare down the number of videos further, I just want to make sure to show anything that might be pertinent.

I think I get it now

On your descents, you are starting to bend forward and push the hips back, and then squat down at the end, which is changing your back angle and pushing your knees out.

You do this other thing on your descent in the barbell reps where you start to push the hips back, stop, start to bend forward, then continue pushing the hips back. The hips hinging back should happen in unison with the back bending forward. You're basically doing an RDL without much ROM, and then squatting down while trying to stay over the bar.

I think you can take a narrower grip, and point your feet more forward. Feet should basically be straight forward in a deadlift.

If you don't squat down at the end, and manage to get depth, your hamstrings should have more tension and you should be tighter in general.

Knees pushed to the side a tiny bit can be ok but they shouldn't be tracking forward like the bottom of a squat

The block pulls look better than the pulls from the ground.

Do the deadlifts that you stop before hitting the ground feel any different in terms of drive, tension, back effort etc? vs. the full deadlifts

This is a SLDL but can also be called an RDL

An RDL will almost never make it to the knees and involves less back. The angle is less acute than a SLDL.

Those look decent btw. You're rounding a little and could get the hips back further/lower back in neutral or arched slightly. Still, looks like a productive exercise

I'm gonna post an RDL video for feedback

Not sure what you're referring to. The <60kg reps that start at the top feel more awkward than anything. As you said, I had trouble with moving the hips back while bending over at the same time. Not to mention not being able to smoothly integrate the appropriate amount of knee bend once the bar clears my knees.

If you're referring to reps #2 and #3 in the pulls from the floor which start immediately after the eccentric of rep #1, those pulls felt stronger and notably didn't result in my hips shooting up at all. That said, I think my hips are higher for those reps and it's more like a SLDL.

Renton,

"As you said, I had trouble with moving the hips back while bending over at the same time."

This is the exercise you should be doing with a broomstick. Bend forward and hinge the hips back. It isn't two competing movements, one causes the other. You can't really bend forward without rounding unless your hips move backwards.

There are two useful depths: descend only enough to fully stretch the hamstrings, then extend, or keep bending forward and sitting back until the hamstrings/hips are very loaded, then reverse. I view these as RDL and SLDL. RDL is essentially a very short ROM hip extension movement. SLDL is a very similar movement pattern to a westside barbell good morning.

I'll post a video later. I've had a lot of success in the past using RDL/SLDL to fix form issues in squat and DL. Even just with a broomstick, these movements can have therapeutic value

This is the best video I could find

fyp

xpost from log.
Sooo yeah I did some hang cleans again and took videos. Any help?

Only recently got back into lifting. Any thoughts on my deadlift form?


Thanks for any advice

A few relatively easy things to fix:

in the clean
1) focus on keeping your elbows out more so that you pull them more straight up. Try to point them to the ceiling during your pull. (right now you are allowing them to go down and back, causing the bar to get away from you)

2) try to get much faster twisting your arms into your rack position, your elbows should be like springs SNAP turning around the bar to the ceiling, you're being very slow there

in the push press
1) use a lot more leg drive by forcefully extending your feet, legs and ass at the same time. (If you look at your feet, they're barely moving. you're basically doing a mini ankle hop followed by a strict press)

2) the bar should go FAST, if you overhead press slow this will become an ingrained motor pattern and you will have difficulty jerking. As you explode into a lockout position, the bearings of the barbell should clatter at the top because of how much force you use

For those who have squatmorning issues like I do, here is a cross post from my log:

A friend on FB shared this video. Some interesting possible things that could contribute to my squatmornings and how to fix them. Figured I would share with you all just in case you have any of these issues.

This guy seems good. I liked his RDL video too.

I started front squatting in Oly shoes and fixed this problem.

Hi guys, could I get a form check on squats again?

Feel like I've regressed from the good squats I posted a while ago. Think I'm confused with all the cues. Eg forward lean, yet that Alan Thrall video posted a couple of days ago says not to. Chest up or nipples to floor. Look ahead or look down. Etc

They were also slow, but they didn't feel that hard, which is a weird combination.

96kg set 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQDVZ3M9DBc
set 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHaGUAZy7cw
set 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujV1thpt8EQ