*** H&F Form Check Thread *** - Page 131 - Health and Fitness Forum

It definitely feels to me like my lower back is doing all the work. I've had some folks say "you are lifting too light a weight" but maybe I need to under-lift for a while to get things working properly?

I think it is pretty normal for the lower back to be the weak point, and the lift to be pretty trivial after the first foot or so. RDLs on lifting days where you're not DLing can help, I think. Planks, too.

I don't think you need to rush to a higher weight if it's pretty hard coming off the floor, still, and you are pretty new to DLs.

Definitely you should eat more, though bourbon and desserts may not be the best macros they are probably better than not eating enough.

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03-25-2013 , 03:54 PM

#3252

biggerboat

you're gonna need one

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 48,487

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03-25-2013 , 04:16 PM

#3253

Doug Funnie II

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,442

I disagree with everyone. I posted more about it in your log, but I think the appearance of lower back rounding is due primarily to the camera angle. I will agree that you have some middle/upper back rounding, which is much much less likely to cause an injury. RDLs (or putting the weight down in a controlled manner) as you do will help this somewhat, but not as much as heavy Pendlay rows, DB rows, and machine or cable rows will.

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03-25-2013 , 08:25 PM

#3254

biggerboat

you're gonna need one

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 48,487

Followup. I posted this in my log but I thought I would mention it here.

I haven't really been doing kettlebell swings for a while but I tried them today. My back has been sort of wonky but I wanted to see how they felt. I've never done this before but I sort of forced my glutes and hammies to push the weight up. Before when I've done them the lower back was doing more of the work. I'm not sure this is what I'm supposed to do but my back definitely feels better and I feel like this might help my DL. Maybe?

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03-27-2013 , 11:03 AM

#3255

GMan42

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 5,258

Been dealing with various mobility problems and injuries and general spazziness, and going up/down in weight, ever since I started squatting. Finally feel like I'm in a groove lately, still making progress even though I'm on a cut. This is my 3rd set (last rep is really grindy) of 255 today. Feedback much appreciated.

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03-27-2013 , 11:26 AM

#3256

amplify

Eternal Unknowable Mesmerizing

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 78,255

I hate your neck position, looking at the ceiling seems to put your neck in an extremely weak unathletic straining posture. I prefer a tucked chin and stacked neck, don't see how arching up like that can be good. Some people like to look up though.

More hip drive.

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03-27-2013 , 11:41 AM

#3257

GMan42

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 5,258

Quote:

Originally Posted by amplify

Thanks.

The neck thing falls under the "general spazziness" category, my form seems to fall apart if I try to keep my neck neutral. Point taken, though, I'll work on it.

"More hip drive" = they look good morning-y as is? Or is there some other visual cue I should look for? I think I can feel when I'm driving my hips up properly, but then again for a period of months I thought I was going to parallel when I was actually doing 1/2 squats. My proprioception is crap.

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03-27-2013 , 11:50 AM

#3258

amplify

Eternal Unknowable Mesmerizing

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 78,255

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMan42

they look good morning-y as is?

perhaps it is only your arched neck thrusting the chest up that is making me feel as though you are leading with the chest.

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03-27-2013 , 12:45 PM

#3259

cking

2008 WCOOP ME Champ

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,196

So been doing SL 5x5 for 4 or 5 weeks and now that the weight is starting to get difficult I really need to work on my form, thinking about doing a deload just to focus on some of you guys suggestions. Tips on how to get deeper on my squat would be especially helpful. Only have Squat and DL right now but plan to add more lifts later

http://youtu.be/9FBHBTzHcQE

http://youtu.be/AfSLNNExyJs

Last edited by cking; 03-27-2013 at 12:46 PM. Reason: Cannot figure out embedding b/c I'm old school like that

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03-27-2013 , 01:09 PM

#3260

amplify

Eternal Unknowable Mesmerizing

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 78,255

idk how to fix your squat but your back is rounded on the DL. In the setup, squeeze everything while bringing the chest up.

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03-27-2013 , 04:27 PM

#3261

crashjr

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 12,922

Side view on DL as requested.

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03-27-2013 , 04:55 PM

#3262

GMan42

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 5,258

Back is pretty rounded. Get your butt back/chest up more when setting up, try not to let your hips come up first.

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03-27-2013 , 05:05 PM

#3263

sylar

Ivan Drago's homeslice

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 20,307

holy crap, crash. does your back still like you?

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03-27-2013 , 05:10 PM

#3264

crashjr

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 12,922

Quote:

Originally Posted by sylar

holy crap, crash. does your back still like you?

Its fine. Its only 245. I got pretty rounded after the first lift, I just want to know how to fix it. I tend to round more as the weight goes up.

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03-27-2013 , 05:15 PM

#3265

BookToMarket

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 7,957

Crash: It's clear that you start moving upwards with your hips way before the bar moves off the ground causing the significant arch in your back. You're going very fast and there is clearly no setup. Look where the bar is located when you start. You want it over the middle of your feet and it looks like it's near your toes, at best. Tighten your lats and straighten your arms and try and keep your chest up before you even lift the bar off the ground.

also, pls trim your vids at the beginning to save all of us a few seconds of precious time

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03-27-2013 , 05:18 PM

#3266

sylar

Ivan Drago's homeslice

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 20,307

your back is never set. not in the beginning of the lift, not on the way up, not on the way down. notice that you actually finish the lift by straightening your back (the lumbar rounding becomes a curve or arch at the top). you should try having the back already straight and just straightening the hip joint. btw, i did what you just did for the better part of 2 years while doing SS.

what helped me is breathing in a lot of air while standing over the bar, bracing my upper and lower back and abdominals, THEN going down to grab the bar while keeping the BACK tight. and start the lift more or less immediately after i pull the bar up against my shins.

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03-27-2013 , 05:19 PM

#3267

BookToMarket

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 7,957

Quote:

Originally Posted by udbrky

Your head's down more than it should be and you're rounding your back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syt7A23YnpA

http://robertsontrainingsystems.com/blog/deadlift/

This is what udbrky told me about my DLs posted itt earlier and he linked to those as well. Both are very helpful imo.

From the 2nd link this part really hit home w/ me:

Quote:

Lead with the Chest, NOT the Hips!
As you lift the weight, you want to keep the lower back flat and the chest up throughout. Ideally, once you’re in this position, your torso never gets closer to the ground.

Unfortunately, what often happens is that when someone lifts a heavy weight their hips shoot up which caves/rounds their chest over. At this point in time you’re totally reliant on your lower back and quadriceps to help you lift the weight, and you’ve put your lower back in a precarious position.

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03-27-2013 , 05:21 PM

#3268

BookToMarket

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 7,957

Quote:

Originally Posted by sylar

what helped me is breathing in a lot of air while standing over the bar, bracing my upper and lower back and abdominals, THEN going down to grab the bar while keeping the BACK tight. and start the lift more or less immediately after i pull the bar up against my shins.

This is something I finally tried yesterday when I did DLs and I think it was my best DL session by FAR. The giant inhale really did wonders helping me keep a straight back.

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03-27-2013 , 05:22 PM

#3269

amplify

Eternal Unknowable Mesmerizing

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 78,255

Quote:

Originally Posted by sylar

notice that you actually finish the lift by straightening your back

this is what I was going to point out, imagine how much easier this lift is going to be when you're already straightened out before you finish pulling.

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03-27-2013 , 06:03 PM

#3270

crashjr

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 12,922

Quote:

Originally Posted by BookToMarket

also, pls trim your vids at the beginning to save all of us a few seconds of precious time

It would take me half an hour to do that the way I know how. If there is a way to do it on the iphone, let me know and I will.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sylar

Quote:

Originally Posted by amplify

this is what I was going to point out, imagine how much easier this lift is going to be when you're already straightened out before you finish pulling.

Cool, thanks. I'll post up next wednesday.

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03-27-2013 , 10:22 PM

#3271

BookToMarket

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 7,957

Quote:

Originally Posted by crashjr

It would take me half an hour to do that the way I know how. If there is a way to do it on the iphone, let me know and I will.

I upload mine w/ my iphone and then in youtube edit them. It literally takes about 5 seconds to trim the intro and ending pieces off my vids. If you're doing everything through your phone then I don't know how to help. Sorry!

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03-28-2013 , 02:19 AM

#3272

shamrock20

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,370

Cking,
Assuming this is a HBBS- your ankles are tight as is your thoracic spine. You should be getting about 3 inches deeper or more preferred ATG. Change plates under the heels will be a good substitute for weightlifting shoes and will negate the ankle inflexibility.
like:
ahhnold

This is a great ankle stretch:
ankle stretch

Rolling the Tspine and lats prior to squatting will help tremendously. Rectifying these two things will have you squatting with much better technique.

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03-28-2013 , 11:35 AM

#3273

cking

2008 WCOOP ME Champ

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,196

Quote:

Originally Posted by shamrock20

Thanks!

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03-28-2013 , 10:26 PM

#3274

The Shrog

adept

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 876

x-post from my newly revived log. This is a PR @ 375. I'm prepping for my first meet, and am not totally clear on the rules for what constitutes as using your thighs for help.

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03-30-2013 , 01:17 PM

#3275

cking

2008 WCOOP ME Champ

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,196

Put the weights under my feet and deloaded a little under 10% to work on form. This is my final set, definetly seems to be getting much lower. Anything else I should work on with my squats? Should I worry about my knees coming so far out? From the Arnold pic that seems to be happening to him too, but I would like to be safe.

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