M,

Glad you're feeling better! It sounds like you and mini are having good holidays, and the pair of bikes is a great way for you to both get out, spend time together, and get some exercise in.

I realize the job market is probably pretty rough, and that in your industry it might even be harder (I honestly have no idea). And, I realize that what you write here is not a full or accurate representation of how these interviews go. And, I appreciate that there's definitely gender bias in all interviews but in particular STEM-related fields. But, some of your comments about your interviews have always felt "off."

This comment: "I told the people in the Lockheed Martin interview that I've been thrown in the fire so many times that I don't feel the burn anymore and just get it done.....they didn't care and it didn't get me the job." ... I can't imagine saying something like that in an interview, or what question might have prompted a response like that. And again recognizing that this is just your pithy responses -- you have no idea what they cared about or what didn't get you the job (you do know, I suppose, that nothing you said affirmatively did get you the job), I want to say that unless the interviewer at some point said "I don't care," this is just a sign of your attitude being broken down. Which is reasonable, as things are hard and discouraging.

But -- I think it's entirely possible that you interview poorly. Or at least significantly worse than you think you do, or you could. And in times of increased competition for scarce jobs, being great in interview is an enormous edge (and possibly a requirement if you actually want to get a job). If I could make a couple recommendations, I would suggest:

1. Reach out to people you've interviewed with (including the Lockheed folks) and ask for their candid feedback. If you had a touchpoint with a recruiter, do that too. (Unrelated -- did you send "thank yous" to the people you interviewed with?)

2. Find a way to get some "mock interviews" in. I think this has been offered to you by others in the engineering field in this thread before. Given the interviews are relatively scarce and feedback is inconsistent and frequently not totally honest, finding a way to improve faster is huge!

Some of my hunch that this is an issue for you is from the ~decade of following your threads, and how you interact with people here. Some is from your honest(ish?) posting about interviewing this and other times. Some is just that interviewing is a skill and it doesn't seem well aligned with the things you are good at. So practice it, even though it's not something that's going to have day to day utility for your job (though it has some -- most of the skills are similar to skills you would use to advance within a company).

Regardless -- happy new year, and hopefully 2021 will be a better year for you.

Agree with the above - reading that line - "I've been thrown in the fire so many times that I don't feel the burn anymore and just get it done" made me cringe. It's got to be one of the most overly cliched and terrible interview answers I've ever seen. I remember writing some line about being "tested by the fire" when I was in my early 20s and writing a mission statement for the first time and the headhunter I was working with telling me to never use such a stupid cliche again.

Interviewing is all about showing, not telling. Don't tell them you've been thrown in the first so many times, give them one or two great examples that illustrate this point - and don't sum it up with bad cliches.

Umm, lol .....I didn't realize it was a cliche, it's actually how I feel and just the truth. I said those exact words in response to how I handle new situations or something to that effect.

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I really do need some interview practice. I think my personality and how I come across has a lot to do with it as well; I feel like I'm constantly underestimated in everything. I noticed it a lot in poker when I'm at a final table and everyone is acting like I shouldn't be there everytime single time....I'm not freaking luckboxing my way to final tables with the chip lead everytime.

The plant manager I interviewed with wasn't impressed with my interview, but now has a different perspective after working with me.
It's frustrating not being able to portray what I'm capable of in an interview/conversation.

I did reached out to the LM people(the ones I could find on LinkedIn) with thank you notes and asked for feedback and they didn't respond.

M,

(Sorry this is long)

That the plant manager has worked with you understands your competency is not entirely surprising. You've had a significant amount of time to make it clear to him that you are competent, by doing the actual work. In interview you do not get that opportunity. You need to make your competence clear without the opportunity to do the work.

Interviewing is hard. You've got somewhere between 15 minutes and an hour of someone's time (generally) to make clear to them anything that's not written on your resume (and if you're doing a good job in that time you probably want to hit the important things beyond list of jobs you've held that are on the resume as well).

You have to make clear why you are a good fit for the position, and why the position is a good fit for you. These are different things -- good managers are going to look not only for whether you are competent for the role being offered, but whether they believe you will have durable satisfaction at the company.

You have to have the ability to respond clearly and with specifics that make your responses personal to yourself, as opposed to a generic answer that comes from some sort of guide to polite conversation or cliches. Here's a mediocre example using your above interview experience:

Question: How do you handle being put in new and unfamiliar situations in the workplace?

Bad answer: Well honestly I feel like I've been thrown into the fire so many times I don't even feel it anymore!

Why this answer is bad: What did the interviewer learn about you, your experience, your thought process, or how you would be additive to the company from this answer? You've burned an opportunity to make yourself interesting, to show off your background, etc. The object of the interview is not just to fail to embarrass yourself and let your resume do the talking. The object is that the interview itself makes you much more impressive than your resume.

Good(ish) answer: I generally approach new situations with process X. A good/recent example was when I was asked to do X while working at company X on project X. I'd never done X before, despite having years of experience with adjacent process X while working as an X at companies X and X. I was excited about the opportunity to learn how to do X, so I followed process X (insert details here of how that went for 30 - 120 seconds or so). By following that process, I learned new skill X, and helped company X achieve X which led to business outcome X. Because of this new skill, I was able to take opportunity X the following year, which X Y Z.

Why this answer is good: It's specific. By actually answering the question and walking them through both the framework you used and the steps of a specific instance, they see that you have frameworks for thinking things through, and (if necessary verifiable) specifics about things your personal accomplishments. It also shows them that one of the outcomes that mattered to you was the success of the team and company, and that learning and growing as a professional matters to you. It also is just plain better conversation. By delving into specifics, the interviewer has more opportunities to have follow-up questions that dig in on these details and again learn more deeply what sort of person you are.

---

Regarding your perception of being underestimated in all things.

1. You live in a pretty sexist universe.
2. You live in a pretty sexist specific part of that universe.
3. You work in a pretty sexist profession, and have hobbies that are pretty sexist, within that part of the universe.

At the poker table it's relatively easy to take advantage of that sexism. In the workplace it's significantly harder.

That said, some of it is also mental. As you said you "feel underestimated." Reframe your thinking. They invited you in, asking for your time, because you're badass enough to have made it off the pile of resumes. They're hoping to have the opportunity to offer you a job. You're not begging. Don't go into the interview hoping not to throw up on yourself and slip through the process. Go into the interview knowing you're a boss and that they'd be lucky to have you. Explain that to them. Do you think they want to offer the job to someone who kind of checks the boxes next to the requirements, or someone who they think "wow I can't believe how lucky we are we got to interview X, we'd be so lucky if they were to join the team?" Be the latter type of person.

This will also stop you from doing genuinely stupid things in the interview like spending the whole time bullshitting about college football or something else trying to fit in. You're you, not someone else. This doesn't mean not to be personable and friendly, it just means don't pander and throw yourself off course.

I promise you'll have a higher hit rate on interviews if you follow this advice.

Thank you Cit, I'll apply this advice.
Happy New Year

December's weigh ins:
No weight loss for a week now....time to start logging calories again and moving.
I spent most of the month in bed depressed and just getting up to go to my contract job. At work I have been going on a 10min walk per day, so that's been my only activity. At this rate I won't be sub 200lbs till March. Trying to refocus my mind on positive thinking and get my energy and motivation up.

Sat Jan 2nd log:
The sun is out! I did yoga in the backyard this morning and meditated for a while. It felt like this summer when I was feeling so good.

Now I'm kinda wishing I wasn't doing this contract job and could spend my days creating a routine, studying for my PE, and applying for jobs.

I went through so many mental changes this past year. First I was angry for being laid off, then I was happy to have so much free time and time with my kid and feeling lucky, then I was in a "**** this" state, now I'm feeling beat down and the pressure to secure a permanent job. I'm still chasing that magical mindset of just happiness, peace with whatever happens....I feel it some days and then my brain flips back to despair. I'm trying to remind myself how great it has been to be off work, sleeping in, relaxing, lots of time with my kid over the summer....
The last time I was out of work for several months we were literally homeless, charging hotel rooms to credit cards, and staying with different family members for a few days at a time. When I finally found a job after 11 or so months I had I think $13 in my bank account. How in the hell could I be depressed now with a house and plenty of savings?

Good job on cals but those food choices are pretty rough. You're going to be way too hungry to comply with calorie limits if you continue to fill your diet with this kind of food.

Also, 233 calorie spaghetti bolognese is suspect. That's like two large bites.

It was a lean cuisine. I can eat 3/4 of these over an hour.

I'm struggling to come up with prepped meal ideas that keep well because I can eat so little at a time. I cooked salmon this past week and most of it went to waste. My kid has determined eggs, salmon, chicken, and veggies are disgusting now after being around code3 for too long and is eating with him instead of what I cook.

Buy a shitload of these:



Get an instant pot (60 dollars) and make stews. Divide them into whatever portion that is small enough for you to eat. Each portion gets a container and put all the containers in the freezer except for two days worth. Put those in your fridge. Each time you take one out to reheat, replace it with one from the freezer. This works with any food that can be frozen and thawed, which in my experience accounts for most types of food other than things that are supposed to be crispy. It would definitely work with baked or sauteed salmon if that's your jam.

How is the therapy going?

The last session wasn't very progressive and just focused on surface things which isn't really helpful. I would have rather continued working on the roots of issues and learn to let things go, but it's hard and I always try to escape feeling the hard stuff.
I have a way of putting up defenses like acting like the current situation is the problem, steering the conversation that way, and acting like I'm just fine deep down.

The next session is Friday.

At least you're still going, that alone is huge progress!

.

You've been told how to meal prep, as well as what to meal prep, over and over and over. You just don't want to do it.

You could easily cook on a Sunday and have every meal ready for the week.

As for what your child eats, that's completely up to you and any problems with that are ones that you created or allowed to happen.

Stop intentionally making everything more difficult than it needs to be.

What happened to the x-rays the mob surgeon was going to set up with? Everything turn out ok?

Any links to the meal prep posts?

chopped ****ing liver over here

Yeah, I know how to prep meals...I'm being mostly depressed, but also lazy and unprepared.

I liked Renton's frozen stew idea, making one tonight.

X-ray hasn't been set up. My insurance is active now and I'm thinking of going to a minor ER to have it done. I don't want to intentionally go around possible Covid patients though....even though it might be to late anyway as code3 is in bed sick right now.

Got some stew cups ready for the freezer.

That's a good idea, but it could be a real challenge. When I was with a big company, I would probably certainly never discuss an interview with someone who didn't get the job...especially someone in a protected class whom I didn't even know. It's just too risky, and LM's HR would probably not look fondly on the exposure should the applicant turn out to be unhappy with the candid feedback.

That's a very good idea.

He (and anyone else at the MLY's current company with whom she interviewed) would be very good people to ask about how her interview went. They'd likely be rather forthcoming. It will probably be very sugar-coated, so anything that they say without enthusiasm is something to work on.

It wouldn't be a hour-long chat. More like two good things and two opportunities for improvement. As I said above, the two opportunities might be like..."nothing was really bad, but..." Disregard the sugar coating...those will be good things to work on, at least from that person's perspective.

Very true. I've interviewed many people whose goal was not to mess it up and to last for the specified time. Others would seek to use the time to sell their skills to us.

While the first group was fine and capable, we'd only be choosing a couple of people max. In a competitive interview, being okay doesn't get it done, because someone else gave the "I was asked to do X while working at company X on project X. I'd never done X before..." answer. They showed us pictures of X and performance reviews commending them for X, too. The person telling me about fires and grabbing bulls by the horns and such who failed to tell me about the fires and what was special about the trials fell to the wayside. I didn't think that person was bad. I just thought someone else was better, because that day they were.

Yes and no. There is a situation where most people at these places are used to working mostly with other men. But, there are far fewer women mechanical engineers than male MEs. Big companies need to show diversity, which does create opportunity (or at least an opportunity for opportunity) that comes from a smaller talent pool.

Yeah..don't do that. There's limited time for MLY to sell her skills. While she may feel relief that she got through the allotted interview time without messing up by (fake) talking about football, if she didn't really nail the interview then the interviewer is simply winding down. He's finished his questions. I'd take that time to express what I'd be bringing to the company.

Having said that, my first engineering job was at Pratt & Whitney. My interviews went well, but the clincher was that I interacted really well with the rest of the team when we were just chatting about some of the upcoming programs. My would-be boss saw how well I interacted, naturally and without trying to force conversations or anything like that. I got the job offer before I got home. So, it has value, but not one-on-one.

On that topic, be nice to everyone. If someone was extra-nice or extra-rude to our secretary, I'd 100% find out.

While meal prep is great, it isn't for everyone. And good job on the stews MLY.

I personally wish you never did the Tijuana thing and was just still having a hard time locking in, but always wish you the best. Want you to try harder though.

If you're going to give mly an out that she might be an incompatible personality to do meal prep, you should at least qualify why it's not for everyone.

I think meal prep is for everyone who can't control what they eat. It's not the only option that works, but it is definitely the most effective one.

Lol MLY doesn't need outs bro.

Rich,
Thanks for the insights, I'm taking notes.
I could maximize my interview time more with examples. I do give some examples, but after the LM interview realized that some may paint me in a bad light when I felt right. When asked about how I handled a difficult situation I explained how some bone heads were doing something idiotic with some vessels that would get someone killed(at the company that hired the youth minister to replace me, where I was the only ME in the facility, and the only person there that had ever designed vessles) and how I went straight to the plant manager to explain the dangers after notifying a few people and nothing was done. I also mentioned in the end how the plant manager abrasively dismissed me and told me I needed to stick to my department. They responded with, "So you ruffle feathers" and I said absolutely when someones safety is in jeopardy, you have to....all of their looks were disappointing with my response. The same guy and company that launched a full on investigation when my boss lied about me not following safety procedures when working on some electrical equipment straight up dismissed a very serious safety issue.....just realized I'm still real bitter about the entire situation and that probably blatantly came accross in the interview.
I'm gonna make up some rainbows and butterfly example to that question next time.

27,
Thanks. I wish I hadn't done the surgery either and am just hoping I get back to normal I a few months.