There's always switching to high bar.

Yeah, I have messed around a little with high bar recently and it feels pretty foreign which makes sense I suppose seeing as though I have never really performed that lift. Tried a couple front squats here and there as well and that feels way beyond foreign. Using some sort of wraps or towels like you do seems to be about the only way those could be possible for me. Traditional front rack grip is seemingly impossible and I ended up trying the cross grip but my form was laughable.

Monday November 6 – 140.9 lbs

Rest day
90min massage

1594 cal/120 carb/67 fat/151 protein/39 fibre

Tuesday November 7 – 140.9 lbs

Rest day
1hr walk, 3.1 miles, +25lbs

1711 cal/141 carb/53 fat/169 protein/22 fibre

Wednesday November 8 – 140.4 lbs

25 mins core, mobility and dynamic stretching stuff

OHP – 2x5x45lbs, 5x65, 2x5x75, 7x75, 9x65
NG Chins – 8x, 7x +25lbs
Squats – 15xbw, 2x10x45lbs, 2x5x95, 5x125, 3x165, 2x185, 2x5x205, 7x205, 10x185

1884 cal/137 carb/68 fat/199 protein/36 fibre

Reset OHP and it still felt super heavy. Losing reps like mad. Elbows felt a bit better on squats but I pulled up a little short of where I wanted to be on the last couple sets. Each of the last sets are likely rep pr's so I won't whine too much.

I've increased my press by something like 15% over the last 8-10 weeks, after maybe 6 months of nearly no gains at all. I'm not really sure what in particular I did differently that caused this to happen so I'll just list it all:

1) calorie surplus

2) switching to bench variants that don't constantly re-tweak my shoulder

3) fewer @10 sets. I only push ohp sets this hard once per two weeks. This and calorie surplus are likely the biggest ones.

4) more sets in general, more higher rep sets, and a higher frequency


It might be time for bigboy programming for your bench/ohp. How hard did you push those 75 and 65 sets?

I am feeling run down and still not quite over this cold or whatever ailment it is I am suffering from so I am hoping that is a major part of it but OHP has been in a holding pattern for a while. The never ending calorie deficit cannot be helping and I will be changing that to at least maintenance in the next couple weeks I think.

I blew my load on the last rep at 75 and probably had one more in the tank at 65. It was only a couple workouts ago that I managed 3 sets of 5 reps at 84lbs and then dropped to 3 sets of only 3 reps at 85lbs after/while being sick. 75 felt like 80-something last night. Squats felt really heavy last night too and I have been feeling run down despite getting piles of sleep, so I am hoping this is just temporary hangover from being sick.

Let me tell you what happens when you lose weight.

So we all diet and start at some skinnyfat bodyweight. Usually we can still make gains because we are fat enough and we are newb enough.

Now as we all know, the lifts are all sensitive to bodyweight. It goes something like squat, press/bench, deadlift with squat being the most sensitive. But if we were to look at it from a percentage loss of 1rm, press might be most sensitive.

So anyways we are cutting and of course lifting. At first are newb gains are so powerful we can lose weight and still get stronger. However, we eventually reach a point where that is not possible anymore.

Simple stuff. Your limbs and shoulders are lean enough that they might be ready to start cutting lbm. If you keep losing weight, you will get weaker.

Unfortunately as we get older, this problem gets exacerbated because the body stores so much more fat in the belly. So we want to cut more but start getting weaker.

Too fat to bulk, too skinny to cut. Welcome to old age, I see a vial of T over there. Maybe take a sip.

Here is a spergfest table that summarizes the year to date fairly well. I lost weight and fat at a pace that would probably work better for weight gain. BF% is just per a withings scale and subject to all kinds of error but I think I am only a bit higher than the 15.5% the scale claims right now. Abs are starting to become visible, albeit barely, and certain lighting conditions definitely help. Both bench and OHP peaked way back in June/July which is when I started having elbow/arm problems. Only Squat has continued to progress well and I wonder if all of the hiking with a 25lb pack on over the late summer and fall helped. DL is still a work in progress and switched to block pulls in week 38. All lifts are in pounds even if the numbers look so low that they must be kilos. For all but DL, only the AMRAP set following an initial 2x5 is posted and if there was any progression in a given week it got posted instead of a fail.

Week	Avg Wght	Avg BF%	Avg Cals	Avg Carb	Avg Fat	Avg Pro	Bench	Squat	DL	OHP
1. Jan30-Feb5	155.5	21.6	2209	209	64	208	12x65	10x50	6x75	10x47.5
2. Feb 6-12	155.3	21.7	2321	248	92	226	12x70	10x75	6x75	10x50
3. Feb 13-19	155.6	21.8	2002	172	70	180	10x85	10x95	7x75	10x55
4. Feb 20-26	154.8	21.5	2099	194	71	174	10x95	11x105	8x75	10x60
5. Feb27-Mar5	154.9	21.6	2106	173	75	186	10x105	10x120	7x95	10x65
6. Mar 6-12	154.2	21.3	2185	169	86	160	9x115	10x135	5x135	10x67.5
7. Mar 13-19	155.2	21.3	2114	187	78	173	10x120	10x140	5x145	8x72.5
8. Mar 20-26	155.1	21.4	2055	179	72	182	7x127.5	8x150	6x155	7x75
9. Mar 27-Apr2	153.3	20.8	1887	166	64	170	7x130	6x160	5x165	5x80
10. Apr 3-9	153.0	20.4	1857	148	63	180	5x135	5x170	5x170	F 82.5
11. Apr 10-16	154.0	20.7	1879	153	65	179	F 137.5	F 175	5x175	9x72.5
12. Apr 17-23	153.0	20.6	1829	146	64	174	9x122.5	8x165	5x180	7x75
13. Apr 24-30	152.6	20.4	1769	151	59	169	8x125	6x175	5x185	6x80
14. May 1-7	152.2	20.0	2350	174	86	177	6x130	5x180	4x190	5x82.5
15. May 8-14	151.8	20.1	1878	158	60	180	6x132.5	7x170	5x190	5x85
16. May 15-21	151.5	19.9	1918	146	65	174	5x135	6x180	4x195	9x75
17. May 22-28	149.4	19.2	1951	157	69	172	7x125	5x190	4x195	6x80
18. May 29-Jun 4	149.6	19.1	1883	136	67	174	6x130	6x175	5x195	5x82.5
19. June 5-11	149.2	18.9	1877	145	66	169	5x133	10x170	5x200	5x84
20. June 12-18	148.0	18.6	1865	134	74	180	5x135	9x180	5x205	5x85
21. June 19-25	147.2	18.2	1745	126	66	160	5x135	8x185	5x215	F 86
22. June 26-July 2	145.9	17.9	1647	115	57	168	5x135	8x185	5x215	5x85
23. July 3-9	147.4	18.1	2181	141	83	188	F 135	9x185	5x205	5x85
24. July 10-16	146.9	17.4	2108	125	93	177	-	-	3x205	-
25. July 17-23	145.3	17.6	1625	133	65	140	-	-	-	-
26. July 24-30	145.1	17.1	2071	142	81	148	8x115	9x175	5x175	5x75
27. July 31- Aug 6	145.0	16.8	2177	163	86	178	9x115	9x175	5x175	6x75
28. Aug 7-13	144.3	16.8	2164	168	83	185	7x120	8x180	5x195	7x77.5
29. Aug 14-20	143.8	16.7	1969	155	75	178	7x122.5	9x185	5x195	6x80
30. Aug 21-27	144.1	16.8	2008	156	78	172	7x125	8x192.5	6x195	6x80
31. Aug 28-Sept 3	144.0	16.7	1933	143	79	175	5x127.5	7x195	5x200	5x83.25
32. Sept 4-10	144.2	16.8	1831	154	69	160	7x125	5x200	3x200	5x83
33. Sept 11-17	143.3	16.7	2063	131	90	181	7x126	5x200	5x200	5x83.5
34. Sept 18-24	143.4	16.4	1964	161	74	181	7x127	5x200	4x205	5x82.5
35. Sept 24-Oct 1	143.2	16.1	1907	138	81	172	5x128	5x205	5x195	8x77.5
36. Oct 2-8	142.5	15.9	1997	165	79	179	9x117.5	5x210	6x195	5x80
37. Oct 9-15	143.2	15.8	2022	169	76	183	8x120	5x212.5	6x205	5x82
38. Oct 16-22	142.5	15.8	1789	121	72	183	-	5x215	6x205	5x83
39. Oct 23-29	142.1	15.8	1924	154	72	183	-	9x195	6x205	5x84
40. Oct 30-Nov 5	140.8	15.5	1761	142	63	168	-	7x195	5x215	F 85

Bolded is very much where I am. And I have no faith that I can maintain weight and see any recomp but I might try that next.

I went to see a coach/trainer just as I started lifting and he was a pretty big proponent of drinking from the T vial, so perhaps that is worth some real consideration.

You can give it one last hurrah.

Bulk to 150, try your best to get stronger. And then cutback down to 140. Compare lifts, waist and bodyfat (any method is fine but repeat).

If you see gains then probably can hold off on the T. But I doubt you will see much.

I don't worry about it anymore. My philosophy is to just lift with progression overload as the main goal. And I have enough fat around my waist that I won't go on a surplus. If that leads to gains, so be it. If it doesnt, maintenance is fine til I get pumped up on T.

Man it's like you think testosterone level is the end-all be-all determinant of muscle strength and size when it may not even be the largest factor in determining those things. There are females with negligible t-levels who squat and deadlift more than we ever could. Worse, you just put the suggestion in his head that he can't make gains and provided a nice scapegoat for him to hang his lack of results on. I hope for his sake that he doesn't give your posts a lot of credit. Suggestion is a powerful thing.



OP,

You do 25lb chins for multiple sets of 8. That's pretty above average. We can look back at history and, lo and behold, you did lots and lots of chin-ups since the beginning. While cutting. This must mean that either your genetic strength potential is totally lopsided to your lats and biceps and away from your pecs, triceps, and delts, or....

He is 45 dude.


You don't understand the realities of Natty training yet. Which is surprising considering your journey. Good progress but nobody has ever even told you that you even lift. I get it about once a month, and that's good enough.

I offered him a route where he could prove if there are any gains in the tank. There are obviously still gains, just not very visible at that age.

Gorilla would agree with me. All 46 year old males should be on the T.

I am now 47 and racing towards 48. I didn't really think the thread title through at the time or simply figured I would log for about 6 weeks and then throw in the towel.

I think that I still have gains to make and plan to kick the deficit aside at some point as well as get a few sessions with a real live person to help with form. Not entirely certain what I will do exactly with respect to bulk/cut/maintain/recomp but I will make gradual changes there. Last year I switched from cut to bulk and only managed to throw some blubber right back around my waist, so I will just take it carefully. I have a decent amount of data tracked to help with comparison points which will hopefully allow for differentiating between fake and real gains at different weight points. I want to hit May with as little excess body weight as possible so I may have to tweak a bulk/cut plan around that but I will figure something out.

I doubt I will give serious consideration to getting on the T in the next couple years but I won't rule it out entirely either. No clue where any of my levels are as I am about 7 years overdue for an annual checkup so I should probably do something about that some time soonish before I die of cancer or something.

My best guess on the ol' TDEEerator is that you'd be at maintenance at around 2100 calories; why not just eat at maintenance for a while, continue to lift hard, maybe increase volume a bit, add 1-200 calories per day once you start to stall, and see what happens?

Your last squat video was good; you may have to get a bit tighter in your upper back when the weight gets heavier, although it's kind of hard to tell since you decided to film with the support of your power cage blocking a quarter of the viewing field for some reason.

For your block pulls, you have the same problem that I do: lat tightness. Squeeze oranges in your armpits, shoulder blades in your back pockets, etc -- whatever gets you there. I know it's easier said than done.

How often are you doing upper body barbell lifts? I scrolled back a few weeks through your log and it looks like once per week, with other random stuff (dips and whatnot) peppered in on off days -- is that right? In addition to those lifts being pretty sensitive to being on a cut, you need to up your frequency if you want to still make some gains. Being at maintenance or a small surplus should help there.

lol, it is almost like you believe volume helps or something...

I did over 7k body weight chin-ups from February through June this year and they seemed to help a bit. I also did 13k+ push-ups over that same period and all progression on bench stopped when the push-ups stopped. Coincidence or did all that volume simply break things. I think the volume helped a lot but I also think it may have contributed to the elbow problems which negatively impacted lifts as well.

Somewhere between 2100 and 2200 seems to be about right for maintaining depending on my exact level of activity. I think that I will switch to maintenance very soon. I want to see a week with an average weight sub 140 just to say I was in the Ant division before I make that change but I may have to settle for a single day as well. Halloween candy cleanup duty has hampered efforts in the last week. Your suggestion of maintenance and adding small amounts of calories as stalls happen is pretty reasonable and does appeal to me.

lol, my garage is just crammed full of excess crap right now, so I can film from where I have been recently with the option to move things about 7 inches further left. It's a pretty tight viewing range and the angle gets worse if I move left. I have been messing about with grip on squat which has been taking a lot of my attention trying to find something that doesn't put so much strain on my elbows so I am missing all kinds of other things on that lift and getting tight has been a problem since day one.

I plan to do a few sessions with a trainer soon in hopes of helping form on everything including squats and deadlifts. It has been a while since I have had any instruction and I just do not make the time to pour through videos and text as much as I need to. I have read your squeeze oranges cue before and thought that I should try that and I am pretty sure I have yet to actually put it into practice yet. I think "chest up", "don't snap", *pull*. Needs work.

I am essentially doing GSLP, so doing upper body lifts 3x per week but I recently stopped benching and subbed in dips and push-ups in its place after failing to find a way to sub in incline bench. Did that due to excessive sharp arm pain around my elbow near the bottom of bench. I couldn't resist throwing in some extra garbage on those days at the same time. There are some other weird days with various upper stuff thrown in just in place of cardio essentially and others where I took a full body day and split it over two days due to scheduling or pansy issues. Probably a sign of getting antsy with my program.

Thursday November 9 – 141.0 lbs

3 rounds of:
8 pull-ups
1k meter row
8/8/7 chin-ups
15 hanging knee raises
15x15lb face pulls
15x10lb pallof press

1552 cal/98 carb/50 fat/193 protein/35 fibre

Was going to go for a walk with loaded backpack or test out my ankle on a run but it is hovering around freezing, the trail was super wet to the point of multiple soakers earlier this week and it gets dark well before I get home so I wimped out on either of those options. Settled on doing a few 1K M rows and threw some extra stuff in to give me a break between rows to ward off death. C2 rower did not kill me.

I am not arguing against a 48yo getting on the T, only against the necessity of it for you to be able to press more than 85 pounds.

3x weekly frequency seems fine, I just think you're doing too much intensity, not enough volume, probably not enough wim and also leaving a lot of pounds out there due to technique. 3x10 dips at 141 seems stronger than 5x135 bench, especially considering you're probably not busting a nut for every last rep on those dips. It really looks to an outside observer like you got to an arbitrary plate milestone and made the weight heavier with your mind, my glass house notwithstanding (I seem to hurt my shoulder whenever my bench begins to exceed 1 plate, coincidence?). OHP in particular benefits from mental arousal and whether you get your head under the bar fast enough can mean a difference of 2 reps in the set.

If you wanted to improve things with as few changes as possible, I'd suggest staying on the GSLP, not taking the 3x5 to failure, doing a couple of relatively heavy backoff sets, again not to failure, moving onto your squats or dls, then coming back to the opposite press lift and doing a bunch of rAvsets™ , 4 or 5 sets of 5 to 15 reps with 1-2 minutes rest between sets. Shouldn't take but 15 more minutes at most. Work on your technique, get more psyched for press sets, and pretty much only go to failure if it will be a PR, especially for press.

Find a style of benching (close grip perhaps) that you can do without pain or just slot the dips in place of bench, adding weight and using GSLP progression.

To end my rant on a positive note, you pretty much did all of the above for squat and look at the progress you've made. Just adding a bit of volume, getting more serious about the lift, and being less intimidated by arbitrary numbers like 200.

inb4 floppyj is roided to the gills and looks like gsp at 185

Not worth opening:

If I manage to pull the trigger on seeing a trainer of some sort I hope to help with the form a bit. I am probably pooched on WIM most days. Dips were a struggle to complete last rep or two in the last set or two but 3x10 will be easy and I will be able to add weight soon. It has almost been a month break from bench and I will try it out again soon. Close grip seemed to hurt even more than somewhere in the mid range.

I do seem to have a huge mental block at 85 on OHP evidenced by hitting 84 no problem and failing large at 85. Bench is a big question mark as I kept getting sharp pain at lower and lower weights. My shorter long-term goals on both of those were 100 and 150. Got some room to go.

I am pressed for time as it is with my workouts. Unless I can find a way to be more efficient it will be a struggle to add more time in, though I may get away with it for the next few months. An alternative that might work better for me is to add a fourth lifting day which would allow me to hit both upper body movements twice a week rather than 1.5x. I will have to try to squeeze in extra volume on 3x per week and consider whether 4x may work better.

You can just permanently replace bench press with weighted pushups.

Get to 4x20 with a 60lb vest and you will have the upperbody push muscles of your dreams.

Pushup is very safe and there are tons of variations and its coretastic. A "healthy" exercise.

Dips are a donk exercise.

I think you have power to OHP more weight with a little improvement in technique, I looked at you 5x83.5 video.
2 things that will help you are a slightly wider foot stance and better bar path.

I have watched this video many times.

Thanks Mag, I will check it out. I don't watch enough vids but I am at least familiar with Thrall.

Loco - gutted to hear that dips are a donk exercise as I love them for upper chest puffy pump even though I crucify my shoulders with them. I do love pushups too though, so very happy to hear that portion. 4x20 +60 sounds like a worthy goal.