Well, I'm starting my 3rd week of my second Max-OT cycle, and I'd like to have a log of some sort for a bit of personal accountability and some extra motivation. For those of you not familiar with the program, it focuses on compound lifts for low rep ranges with heavy weights and steady progression. It's a bit more intensive than starting strength, more info here: http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Max-OT.

For those of you too lazy to read, here's a brief summary:
Each workout should last 30-40 minutes.*
Train only 1-2 muscle groups per workout.
Do 6 to 9 total heavy sets per muscle group.
Do 4 to 6 reps per set.
Rest 2-3 minutes between sets.
Train each muscle group once every 5-7 days.
Take a 1 week break from training every 8 to 10 weeks.

*I use a gym at a college of 20k+ students and it's a tiny gym, it's tough to get my workouts under an hour cause of crowdedness.

I've been lifting consistently for about 15 months now, though I'd say the first 8 or 9 months of that wasn't great and I had some poor nutrition and workout habits. I still made some decent gains though. Anyway, here's the routine for this 10 week cycle. All sets are 4-6 reps preceeded by warmups for that muscle group unless otherwise noted.

Day 1: Chest+Triceps
2 sets flat barbell bench press
2 sets decline barbell bench press
2 sets weighted dips
1 set incline press
2 sets skull crushers
2 sets Overhead Dumbbell Tricep Extensions (seated)
1 set tricep pushdowns

Day 2: Back+Biceps
3 sets deadlifts
2 sets barbell rows
2 sets seated rows, once with straight bar, once with v bar
1 set lat pulldowns with v bar
2 sets curl bar curls
1 set pinwheel curls
1 set alternating dumbbell curls

Day 3: Legs
3 sets squats
3 sets stiff legged deadlift
3 sets 45 degree leg press

Day 4: Traps+Shoulders
2 sets seated military press
2 sets upright rows
2 sets seated dumbbell press
2 sets side lateral raises
2 sets rear lateral raises (seated)
3 sets dumbbell shrugs

Day 5: Calves+Abs+Forearms
3 sets 8-10 reps calf press on 45 degree leg press machine
2 sets 8-10 reps standing calf raises on a free motion squat machine (we don't have a standing calf raise machine at our gym and I'd feel like a dick using one of the two squat racks for calf raises with a barbell, unless nobody was there)
2 sets barbell 8-10 reps wrists curls (wrists on knees)
2 sets 4-6 reps pinwheel curls (I do these differently on forearm day, lean forward a bit and squeeze the dumbbells very very hard, like this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUl23...e=channel_page)
2 sets 8-10 repsreverse wrist curls
3 sets 12-15 reps cable crunches
some swiss ball ab work with bodyweight at home, leg raises and crunches, to failure on these ones, sometimes like 15 reps, sometimes like 30.

Right now since its still early in the cycle I feel like there's a few things I should change. Chest+triceps day especially looks like it needs some condensing, I feel like I should make some of those press sets closed grip and take out a few of the tricep isolation sets, that way I can reduce the amount of sets I'm doing and make more of the sets I'm doing compound lifts. Just did chest today and I definitely feel I need to change this around. If anyone has some suggestions, please post.

Why on earth do you need an entire day dedicated to calves/abs forearms? Huge waste of time imo.

Day 1, week 3, chest+tris:
I only have to do warmups on one exercise for the entire day, which is really nice.
Warmup was flat bench press, 12xbar, 7x95, 4x115, 2x125, 1x135.

Flat Barbell Bench Press: 6x160, 5 and a halfx165 (last rep I lowered the weight too fast and didn't really get it down far enough)
Decline Barbell Bench Press: 5x150, 4x150
Weighted Dips: 4xbw+50, 5x bw+50
Incline Barbell Bench Press: 1x120 (chest felt pretty fried after the dips)
Behind the Head DB Tricep Ext(seated): 8x40, 6x45
Skull Crushers: 5x70, 5x70 (not sure about the weight of the curl bar)
Tricep Pushdowns: 7xstack with straight bar attatchment

Today was one of my best workouts ever. I really had some insane intensity and was able to increase the weight on everything. Form was close to perfect. Last week getting 4x155 on the flat press was a big struggle, this week 160 was ez game. It's finally getting warmer here, it's snowed weekly for the past 5 or 6 weeks. I can just feel the surge of testosterone and estrogen in all the young men and women on my campus, just having it be 65 degrees out made me really happy and energetic today and I got a really solid workout in. I'm going to need to use a different attatchment on the tricep pushdowns, stack was fairly easy with the straight bar. Last time I tried the rope thingy I could barely get a little more than half the stack. I used pretty strict form on every exercise today, I lower the weight twice as slowly as I raise it, and go to my sternum on all the presses. Nutrition has also been really solid today. Weighted dips are really awkward for me since my gym only has this huge ass chained belt which looks like it was designed for a 300lb man. I think I'll buy one of my own.

I had 8 eggs with some sausage, bell peppers, and green chillis in the morning for breakfast, and a protein shake with a roast beef sandwhich on whole wheat after the workout. Currently 148.4 and 5'10. Last cycle I gained 7 solid pounds and my abs got a ton more visible, they were already pretty nice looking just because I have a fairly thin and low bf body type. Hopefully I can keep up the monster intensity I had today for the rest of the cycle.

Oh yeah, and if anyone has any input on how I could improve chest+tri day as far as what exercises to sub in and out, I'd appreciate it.

Actually I tried doing calves on leg day for a few weeks last cycle, but my leg day is already pretty difficult with sldl, squat, and leg press. I ended up at the gym for like 1.5 hours trying to cram calves in there as well, and I don't really think I'll consistently have the energy to put calves on leg day. I also had forearms, triceps, and biceps grouped together and just did abs at home 3 times a week. This didn't work so well for me since I felt like I was hitting triceps+biceps+forearms twice a week, once on triceps+biceps+forearms day, once on chest day for tris, and once on back day for biceps. This also led to some scheduling conflicts where I ended up hitting the same muscles 2 days in a row or with only a day between. My routine is always open to modification though, if you have any suggestions one what I could move around.

I don't think you really need to do calf raises, or wrist curls, at all. You're still a novice, quit wasting time on insignificant crap and just start your weekly cycle a workout earlier. Day 5 should be replaced by Day 1, that way you do the heavy compounds more frequently.

You can do 1 or 2 sets of weighted situps or something at the end of a workout and you'll be more than covered.

Hmm... do you mean do day 1 two times in each 5 day span? I take 2 days off after each of those 5 days, if that wasn't clear. If I do that, I'd way rather hit legs twice than chest twice. Do you think this would be solid? My squat is lagging behind my other lifts a bit too, definitely would like to hit legs twice every 5 days.

As far as abs, I think I'm good just doing them at home 3x a week with swiss ball. Unweighted leg raises still kick my ass if I keep good form.

You could use dumbbells for all of your presses and skullcrushers.

yes squatting twice a week is far superior to what you were doing. If you're benching 160, I think you could still get a lot of gains out of starting strength. It's far superior to this program, and especially for you, since you're not past the novice stage yet (you shouldn't be if your other lifts are proportional to your bench). The reason it's better is because it spends more time with the most important lifts.

Or if you keep your program,
M-Day 1
T-Day 2
W-Day 3
R-Day 4
F-Day 1
S-Rest
S-Rest
M-Day 2
T-Day 3
W-Day 4
R-Day 1
F-Day 2
S-Rest
S-Rest

or you could just go 4 on, 1 or 2 days off then repeat, it doesn't necessarily need to fit into a week.

If we're talking about this: http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLi...Standards.html, that puts me at a little past intermediate using the 1rm. I'd be at intermediate exactly for deadlift, and a little ahead of novice in squat. I'm weighed in at 148.4 today, in case you missed that. I'm much more concerned with putting on mass and strength than developing a physique or whatever, so abs+calves+forearms definitely aren't super important or anything. I think I'll go with the routine you suggested in the second part of your post.

As far as starting strength, I think I'd just die of boredom training only 3 days a week and as little as starting strength advocates, unless I added in some cardio or something. Part of the reason I do this, I should add, is that I'm an energetic 20 year old kid and I get a little fidgety and irritable without a lot of exercise every week.


One more thing, would it be okay to sub upright rows on shoulders+traps day for rack deadlifts or would 3 deadlift variations in a week of training be too intense on my back? I figure more compound lifts can't be bad and shoulders+traps always seems to lack intensity compared to my other days. I usually just kinda breeze through it and leave unsatisfied and still full of energy.

Thanks for the feedback.

How tall are you?

Last I checked bench press, overhead press, chins/pullups, dips etc all worked the deltoids. I don't think upright rows are necessary at all, and can potentially be dangerous to the shoulder. Shoulder day wouldn't be a bad spot for power cleans imo.

5'10. That's actually one of the reasons I want to get rid of them, last month I hurt my left shoulderblade doing them and it messed me up for my next 2 weeks with back and traps days. They just don't feel very productive either. I did them closed grip for focus on the traps, not the delts. It just feels like an inferior cross between the top part of a deadlift and a shrug. Powercleans definitely sound like a good idea, didn't do them at all the last 10 week cycle.

5'10" 150? imo you could stand to gain a few (30 at least) to get stronger and bigger. Seriously you should just go on SS or something similar with faster progress, more heavy compound lifting, and fewer isolation exercises and gain weight over this period to help keep your lifts going up.

If SS is only 3 days a week, I don't know I've never done it, you could do you abs, forearms, and other small muscle groups on the days in between.

I'll be the devil's advocate here and defend Max-OT. If there is a routine that makes you stronger faster, I have not found it.

There are big-time drawbacks though. I have found that it isn't the greatest routine for putting on mass. Also, it is definitely not for beginners. The program basically says you should go to failure on every single set, which I think is ******ed. You will fatigue very quickly, and the chances of fatigue are gigantic. I suffered from a huge tear in my left quad from a combination of maxing out with squats and the fatigue. It took months to heal.

Max-OT is an interesting routine, but it is definitely an advanced one. If your goal is to gain mass, I think a routine where you work out the big muscle groups more frequently is better suited. Starting Strength or HST fit the bill here.

I'll be the devil's advocate here and defend Max-OT. If there is a routine that makes you stronger faster, I have not found it.

There are big-time drawbacks though. I have found that it isn't the greatest routine for putting on mass. Also, it is definitely not for beginners. The program basically says you should go to failure on every single set, which I think is ******ed. You will fatigue very quickly, and the chances of injury are gigantic. I suffered from a huge tear in my left quad from a combination of maxing out with squats and the fatigue. It took months to heal.

Max-OT is an interesting routine, but it is definitely an advanced one. If your goal is to gain mass, I think a routine where you work out the big muscle groups more frequently is better suited. Starting Strength or HST fit the bill here.

Failure to every set on every exercise? I honestly think that is ******ed. I wouldn't advise going to failure on squats or deads, so you know, you can stay alive.

Anyways, I'd suggest OP trim a few exercises off, and move the squat and DL days away from each other by 1 day.

Day 2, Week 3, Back+biceps

Warmups were deadlifts, 135x7, 160x4, 185x2, 205x1. After deadlift work sets, I did one warmup set for bb rows with 95x6

Deadlifts: 230x6, 235x6, 240x4
Bent over Barbell Rows: 120x5, 120x6 (still getting used to this one, it's in my routine for the first time)
Seated Cable Rows(v bar then straight bar): 90x8, 110x5
Lat Pulldown with V bar: 110x5 (stretch and flex for 1 second at the top)
Curl Bar Curls: 85x6, 90x5
Dumbbell Curls (pinwheel style then normal): 40x6, 40x4

Today was a little disappointing just because yesterday went so amazingly. Just didn't quite have as much energy as I'd have liked, deadlifts could have been a lot better. My biceps felt really really tired starting the curl bar curls and I had to back off the weight quite a bit. I'm making a few changes to back+biceps day. I've been reading around this and other forums and I've come to the conclusion that lat pulldowns are just a way worse version of pullups, my 1 set of those is being replaced by a set of pullups, possibly weighted, to failure. Also, biceps definitely got hit too hard today, I'm taking out both sets of dumbbell curls and adding in 1 more set of weighted pullups to failure. Less isolation, more compound. Tomorrow I'm not doing legs, I'll be doing shoulders+traps instead. On Tuesdays and Thursdays I always work out at 9 in the morning, I took a PE class for credit that just gives me an hour of weight room time at a specific time and it's worth school credit. I really really hate doing legs in the morning, I'd way rather have that kind of stress on my joints and knees while I'm asleep than have to deal with it all day long. Also, deadlifting one day and then stiff legged deadlifting next day isn't a very good idea. The main reason I put shoulders traps and back a day apart is because upright rows after deadlifts were kinda hurting my lower traps, but I'm getting rid of them for powercleans. Also, I'll be replacing the seated military press with standing press, more starting strength lifts yay. Or not, I might simply do the type of clean that has the press at the top of the motion if the weight works out right. I haven't done cleans in a long time though. I'll also take out side lateral raises and do barbell instead of dumbbell shrugs. My morning workouts are never very crowded since few college kids can even get up at 9, much less workout at 9, and I'm sure there'll be a spare olympic bar for me to do them.

Yeah, I completely understand that it's better to do compound lifts as opposed to isolation work, especially at my beginning level, and my routine should hopefully show that. I am still focusing on the basic lifts and assistance exercises to help them. I think people just have some SS zealotry where they immediately assume anything other than ss will turn you into a fat tub of lard or something. I made 7 lbs in 10 weeks as well as giant progression on every lift last Max-OT cycle, unless I somehow fail to make progression and gain at least 6-10 pounds this cycle, I don't see myself changing. I'm always open to moving things around and changing the routine up to include better exercises though.

As for training to failure, even before I knew anything about weight training, I trained every set to failure, and that was about 16 months ago now. Every source except 2p2 I come across has said that Max-OT is a great beginners program.

Max-OT does say to focus on compound lifts instead of isolation work. What I mean is that, when it comes to gaining size, I have found it is better to work out the compound lifts MORE OFTEN. Max-OT has you hitting each muscle group once a week, as opposed to other routines that basically has you hitting the big muscle groups every time.

Looking at your numbers, you are definitely not a rank beginner. I also like Max-OT, and have fond memories of putting up huge numbers very quickly using the program.

My advice is that once you get into week 4 or 5, you be very very careful to do everything right. Get enough protein and rest, otherwise injury will be practically guaranteed.

Week 3, day 3, shoulders+traps
Warmups were a little janky today, I workout in the morning with my PE class on Tuesday and Thursday. I also had a presentation to give in my english class right after the workout, so I kept today pretty short and shaved off a lot of warmup sets. Did some standing press with the bar and 2 more warmup sets, don't remember the weight, and a set of powercleans with the bar.

Standing overhead press: 6x95, 6x105
Powerclean: 6x95, 6x115, 5x120
Barbell Shrugs: 6x185, 5x195
Seated Dumbbell Press: 6x45s, 5x50s
Dumbbell Shrugs: 6x65
Seated Rear Lateral Raises: 6x20, 6x20

Morning workouts are typically a little bit lighter for me. I can never seem to work up the same energy I'd have at like 2 in the afternoon. I also didn't have any breakfast before the workout. Surprisingly, it still went pretty well today and I built up some intensity on every exercise except cleans. I haven't done powercleans in a long time so I didn't go to failure on anything but the last set, just wanted to get my form down solidly and all first. I definitely really like this exercise though, even taking it a little easy on the first 2 sets my front delts felt really good after doing them. I feel like I could have gone harder on standing press, but again I've been doing seated military press for the past 12 weeks, didn't want to go crazy and injure myself. I definitely prefer standing press though, felt a lot more strenuous but in a very good way. I felt really good and had a big pump after leaving, which is odd since usually i don't get "teh pump!11" on anything but chest and legs. I know it Max-OT says it's not really an indicator of a good workout and shouldn't be taken too seriously, but it definitely felt good anyway. It's especially weird I had an above average workout today because I didn't sleep very well at all last night. Still had more energy than usual at the gym in the morning and I'm pretty satisfied with how it went. Smoked the english presentation afterward too. Legs tomorrow then chest+tris day after that, then rest. Definitely going to watch what I eat today and hopefully compensate a bit for missing breakfast.

Week 3, Day 4, Legs

Warmups were squats, did 12xbar, 7x115, 4x135, 2x155, 1x165. Also did 2 sets of sldl warmups after squat worksets

Squats 6x185, 5x190, 5x195
Stiff legged deadlift 6x175, 6x185, 6x195
Leg Press 45 degree (can't remember what the sled weighs, might be more than this), 6x410, 6x415, 4x415

Not much to say about today, really was pretty average. Not super energetic, but definitely not tired. Tomorrow will be chest+tris in the morning and I plan to make a few changes and do more closed grip stuff, take out the tricep pulldowns, and overall condense the day a little bit.

Week 3, Day 5, Chest+Tris

Warmups were flat press, 12xbar, 7x95, 4x115, 2x135, 1x150

Flat Barbell bench press 6x160, 3x170 (FAIL)
Weighted Dips 4x55, 5x55
Incline Bench Press 6x145
Incline Closed grip benchpress, 5x105
Decline Closed Grip 5x105
Skull Crushers 6x85, 5x85
Seated Dumbell behind the head extensions 8x45

Today kinda sucked, morning workout. I had a spotter when I failed the 170 and I did do 4 reps, last one was forced. Guess I got too cocky from last chest workout. My dips never seem to stop going up though. First set I kinda ****ed up and turned my head to the mirror to make sure my form was good, bad idea, made my next/left trap feel a little weird so I stopped. I don't like the way I structured today's workout either. Felt like my triceps got hit too hard and chest not enough. Gonna shake it up yet again next week. Right now I'm thinking I'll simply do what I listed in the original post minus the tricep pulldowns, take out one set of skull crushers, and add in 2 sets of flat closed grip bench press. All heavy compound lifts and 2 tricep isolation exercises.. I could consider just taking those out and adding in some more incline press, maybe with dumbbells.

My schedule is going to see a pretty big change two weeks from today. My semester ends and I'll be living with my family again for at least a month, possibly the entire summer. I'll be going to an LA fitness which should be kinda nice. I really hate how crowded my gym is. Last time I was in a commercial fitness club, 90%+ of the customers did cardio/machines only, on colleges people do some stupid **** of course, but there's a lot more people in our tiny freeweights section. My nutrition should also be tons better, as I'll no longer be at the mercy of my university's cafeteria.

Week 4, Day 1, Back+Biceps

Warmups were deadlifts, 7x135, 4x165, 2x185, 1x205

Deadlifts: 5x230, 5x230, 4x235
Barbell Rows: 6x120, 6x125
Seated cable rows 6x110(v bar), 4x120 (straight bar)
Curl Bar curls: 6x90, 5x95
Pullups: x11

Cut yesterdays workout short. Probably should actually keep it that short on any normal day though, deadlifts are definitely the most taxing lift I do, much much harder than squats. And there's so much overlap between back and biceps exercises I don't really see a reason to do anymore bicep stuff. Off to the gym to do legs right now. I really don't have too much of a problem doing sldl after regular deadlifts, but the other way around is problematic.

Week 4, Day 2, Legs

Warmups were squats, 12xbar, 7x115, 4x135, 2x155, 1x170

Squats: 6x190, 5x195, 4x200
Stiff legged deadlifts: 5x190, 5x195, 4x195
Leg Press: 6x420, 5x425, 5x420 (still not 100% sure about the weight of the sled, think it's the same as a bar)

Nothing special today, got a little light headed after stiff legged deadlifts. I'm told this is usually caused by caloric deficiency, but I definitely ate a decent amount before today's workout so I dunno.

I'm going to be buying some more supplements late next week. Right now I just use some crappy protein from target that also has creatine in it. I'd like to have a separate creatine and protein though so I can mix the creatine with other stuff. I need some suggestions one what brands to buy and from where (online of course). I'd also like to know about some good pre-workout stuff and athlete specific vitamins and if they're really worth anything. I've heard good things about universal animal products but I don't really know jack **** about supplements so somebody give me some cliffs on what I need. For protein I'd like something that I can mix with either water or milk. I think milk might be really good for somebody with my goals and naturally small bone structure, but it's totally absent from my diet currently.

Lightheadedness can mean a lot of things, but in my experience, it is usually a result of overtraining. Remember what I said before about making sure you do everything right once you get into week 4 and 5? Eat well, get plenty of rest, get plenty of protein. Max-OT is a taxing routine, and this is the point when it gets tough.

I don't know of any useful supplements besides the usual protein, multi-vitamins, fish oil, and creatine. Don't bother looking for a magic bullet, because you aren't going to find it.