If your goal weigh is 170, getting 170 grams of protein from chicken breasts alone would put you at 811 calories. It looks to me like your daily calorie goal is about double that.

Even getting 100 grams a day would be a lot better than what it looks like is happening. I do think that's low, even for someone who doesnt train with weights. 150 grams a day might be a good goal and if you hit 120 on a bad day, that wouldnt be too bad.

Try adding chicken (or some other lean meat) to your salads. Add in some whey protein powder. It would require a little effort at first, but its easy once you get used to it.

Sorry guys - while the protein debate waged on, I was travelling and got behind with my logs.

1/7 Weight 167 Calories 2480 (819)

OK - a **** start to the week. In my limited defense, I got upgraded to business class on my flight, which rarely happens, and was determined to make the most of it.

Bread, Double Fiber Breakfast 1 Slice 70
Egg, Large Breakfast 1 Each 72
Juice, Pink Grapefruit Breakfast 1 Cup 96
Mimosa Breakfast 15 Ounces 325

Macaroni And Cheese Lunch 1 Cup 400
Wine, Prosecco Lunch 1 Serving 89
Liquor, Whisky Lunch 3 Fluid ounces 180

Vodka Martini Dinner 12 Fluid ounces 400
Rolls, Dinner, Plain, from Restaurant Dinner 1 Each 133
French Fries, Medium, Fast Food Dinner 1 Each 427
Crab Cake Dinner 1 Each 160

Chips, Potato, Original Snacks 12 Pieces 128

1/8 No weight Calories 2393 (732 calories over)

This was the fault of a guy in a bar buying me lots of drinks. I know - when I travel things tend to fall apart for me.

Juice, Pink Grapefruit Breakfast 1 Cup 96
Crabmeat Omlet Breakfast 1 Serving 400
Potatoes, Red, Baby, Cooked Breakfast 4 Ounces 101

Egg, Large Lunch 1 Each 72
Avocado Lunch 0.25 Each 80
Bacon, Cooked Lunch 2 Pieces 87
Dressing, Balsamic Vinaigrette Lunch 0.125 Cup 90

Lamb, Cubed Kabob, 1/4 Trim, Cooked Dinner 6 Ounces 379
Bread, Pita, White Dinner 1 Each 165
Wine, Red Dinner 0.5 Liter 423

Vodka Martini Snacks 15 Fluid ounces 500

1/9 Weight 171 Calories 1634 (27 under)

Flying home, I was able to exert a little more self-control. Should be back on the regimen now.

Breakfast Sandwich, McMuffin, Egg w/ Canadian Bacon Breakfast 1 Each 300

Pasta, Spaghetti, Cooked Lunch 2 Cups 442
Shrimp Lunch 5 Ounces 150

Beef, Average of Cuts, Cooked, 1/8" Trim Dinner 4 Ounces 341
Potatoes, Red, Baby, Cooked Dinner 4 Ounces 101

Chips, Potato, Jalapeno Snacks 2 Ounces 300

Wouldn't want to be rude. MLYLT has taught you well.

That is a low blow Dids!

1/10 Weight 171 Calories 1503 (185 under)

Bread, Double Fiber Breakfast 1 Slice 70
Egg, Large Breakfast 1 Each 72
Juice, Pink Grapefruit Breakfast 1 Cup 96

Shoyu Pork Ramen Lunch 1 Serving 520

Shoyu Pork Ramen Dinner 1 Serving 520

Chips, Potato, Jalapeno Snacks 1.5 Ounces 225

1/11 Weight 171 Calories 1527 (161 under)

Bread, Double Fiber Breakfast 1 Slice 70
Juice, Pink Grapefruit Breakfast 1 Cup 96
Egg, Large Breakfast 1 Each 72

Pasta, Spaghetti, Cooked Lunch 1.5 Cups 332
Shrimp Lunch 5 Ounces 150
Sauce, Pasta, Basil Pesto Lunch 1 Tablespoon 65

Beans, Pinto, Cooked, No Salt Dinner 12 Fluid ounces 365
Wine, Prosecco Dinner 0.666 Bottle 377

Nice consistency so far.

How do you determine your calorie budget each day? (From eyeballing your numbers, it looks like some days have a slightly different budget, though nothing more than ~50-100 each day). Just curious.

I don't think there is much of a debate. Everyone agrees that 160g of protein would be better for you than 80g. What is unresolved is how much it matters. Cha, et al would have you believe it's a huge deal. I believe it's not that significant, especially for the amount of time it should take you to lose the weight.

No one is really debating that point in the true sense of the word. Everyone is just more or less talking at each other and asserting that they are correct (myself included). Getting to the bottom of that is going to require more research than I care to do, and even then I wouldn't be confident in the results.

What I am sure of is that there are plenty of thin, attractive, healthy women who get way less than 1g/lb of protein a day. If they can do just fine at that level, I don't think you have much to worry about at 80-100g/day.

The app I'm using does it (Lose it). It adjusts downward as I lose weight.

There is one issue we haven't addressed here which does have some literature backing it.

There is something to having your protein in discrete chunks that are at least 25-30g that is said to cause a robust protein synthesis response in the body. If she eats 80kg a day, often some of her meals will fail to exceed the leucine-content threshold to trigger these spikes. I'd recommend she shoots for 3 to 4 servings of >30g protein each day.

3 meals of 30 g day is still well short of Cha's rec.

Also, were these studies done on people in deficits? Do you have links to some of them, by any chance. I'd be interested in reading them.

Leucine is the amino acid that is thought to be most potent at stimulating MPS. Peak plasma leucine concentrations following protein ingestion typically correlate with muscle protein synthesis rates (Pennings, 2011)

An even balance of protein intake at breakfast, lunch and dinner stimulates MPS more effective than eating the majority of daily protein during the evening meal (Marerow, 2014).

Providing 20 g of protein every 3 hours stimulates MPS more than providing the same amount of protein in less regular doses (40 g every 6 hours), or more regular doses (10 g every 1.5 hour) (Areta, 2013).

The muscle full effect is the observation that amino acids stimulate MPS for a short period, after which there is a refractory period where the muscle does not respond to amino acids. More specifically, after protein intake, there is an lag period of approximately 45-90 min before MPS goes up and peaks between 90-120 minutes, after which MPS returns rapidly to baseline even if amino acid levels are still elevated (Bohe, 2001)(Atherthon, 2010).

Only three days of dieting already reduce basal MPS (Areta, 2014). This shows that an energy deficit is suboptimal for MPS, however you can grow muscle mass while losing fat (Longland, 2016). It is unclear if eating above maintenance is needed to optimize MPS.

Thanks. I'll take a look at it. Sounds interesting.

However, Jo isn’t having 90, 80 or 70g of protein per day. More like 30ish?

A large egg has 6g, which is brekkie. Lunch and dinner don’t seem to have more than 15g at best.

So the real question is 40g daily enough?

That's not really a question, because everyone agrees it should be more than that. Unless I grunched APB-style and missed someone advocating for that.

Except for possibly pokerjo. Although, even she may not disagree. She may agree but just be willing to accept the consequences.

This^^.

We all know the answer to that and Jo does not appear to care about it.

Well, that was a lot to read. There are plenty of details to find fault with in all of these studies, but I suppose in absence of evidence to the contrary, I agree with your statement that breaking protein consumption into chunks like you say is probably better than getting it all in one meal.

Here are a few interesting things I picked up:
-In most (I think all, but don't want to go back and check) of the studies, the quantities of protein under study are far less than the 1g/lb/ day that cha recommended.

-The last two studies suggest that you really only get the benefit with resistance training. In the last study they're doing resistance training + HIIT for 6d/week. I think that's critical and which is why I mentioned earlier that lifting is key if you want to prevent loss of muscle mass. I really think that the difference between 80 and 160 in her case is small if she is in deficit AND she is not lifting.

I'd guess there is a diminishing dose response to increased protein that will seriously curb after 120g or so. So I'd guess that the difference between 80 and 120 is substantial.

As long as you admit you're just guessing, I've got no problem with that.

Well I'd bet on it if it could be proven, so more of an informed guess.

I'd bet on the opposite too. I think it comes down to what you mean by substantial.

Imagine we could clone pokerjo. The two non-lifting pokerjos would have isocaloric diets, but jo-A would eat 160 g/lb of protein and jo-B would eat 80g/lb of protein.

I think that when the jos get to 150, they'd look pretty much the same if you saw them walking down the street.

I also think that the main advantage that hi-protein jo would experience is due to the thermic effect of the extra protein. Eliminating that confounder in a fair way from our impossible, hypothetical bet would be a little tough.

My weekly summary for the last couple of weeks indicates I'm getting about 50g of protein a day fwiw (weekly total 372g and 397g).

And hopefully, no-one intends to clone me - one pokerjo in the world is more than enough!

I was a bit over yesterday - I'm blaming the apple, not the bottle of wine

1/12 Weight 168 Calories 1871 (203 over)

Egg, Large Breakfast 1 Each 72
Bread, Double Fiber Breakfast 1 Slice 70
Juice, Pink Grapefruit Breakfast 1 Cup 96

Fish, Sardines Lunch 3.5 Ounces 142
Olives, Kalamata, w/o pits Lunch 9 Pieces 120
Dressing, Balsamic Vinaigrette Lunch 0.125 Cup 90

Pork, Ribs, Country Style, Cooked Dinner 4 Ounces 372
Wine, Prosecco Dinner 1 Bottle 566
Beans, Black, Cooked, No Salt Dinner 1 Cup 227

Apple, Large Snacks 1 Each 116

1/13 Weight 168 Calories 1153 (515 under)

Solid day today. Pork, fennel and bean stew with dollops of wholegrain mustard for dinner. Perfect for the rainy weather.

Egg, Large Breakfast 1 Each 72
Bread, Double Fiber Breakfast 1 Slice 70
Juice, Pink Grapefruit Breakfast 1 Cup 96

Bread, Double Fiber Lunch 1 Slice 70
Soup, Cream of Celery, Made w/ Milk Lunch 1.5 Cups 246

Pork, Ribs, Country Style, Cooked Dinner 4 Ounces 372
Beans, Black, Cooked, No Salt Dinner 1 Cup 227