Hi Cha. Sorry to invade your log with this, but I'd really appreciate your input if you have the time.

I had some low back issues - mild discomfort after sets/other activity - over the summer that seemed to be first caused by rounding during DLs. I then got a shooting pain in my back during a very light HBBS (95 lb), on the concentric part of the movement right as my back went from flexion back into hyperextension.

I took some time off from barbell squatting, but after a few weeks of rest and research I started again using Kelly Starrett's setup, focusing on keeping a very rigid torso starting from the glutes.

Things were going well, and I quickly made my way back to a 1RM of 350, but then I had another episode of this shooting pain, this time on the first rep of an attempted 5x300. I got this rep on video as well, and this time I don't see any red flags form-wise. Here is the video; the pain felt like it originated near the top of my belt:



I guess I have a few questions:
1) Do you agree that this squat looks fairly decent right up until the injury?
2) If so, should I be avoiding back squats at this point? I've started front squatting again with no issues.
3) The pain/discomfort subsided quite a bit throughout that day, and was gone after three or four days. Does that mean this is likely a muscular issue rather than something disc-related?

Any general comments/advice/questions would be much appreciated as well.

As you may now know, letting your back go from flexion to extension while your spine is loaded with weight is bad for your discs. Its good that you follow the Starrett rigid torso setup. Keeping your back from moving at all during a squat or DL is exponentially less stressful on the discs than allowing any movement.

1 - yeah, I cant see anything. I think the fact that you hurt something says that you might have done something wrong, but it looks like whatever it was, was subtle. That goes to show that sometimes it doesn't take much to do some damage.

2 - Definitely. Front squats are way less stressful on the back than back squats because the greater the back angle, the more potential there is for sheer force on the spine. Do you ever plan on competing in powerlifting? If not, I cant think of a very good reason to ever back squat again, especially since it sounds like you can FS with good enough form that it doesnt bother your back.

3 - My guess is you irritated a facet joint in the spine. When that happens, the joint hit the end ROM and it irritated some local nerves that shoot pain and tightness into the surrounding area. Those problems can be quickly corrected by a good chiropractor who is good at ART, and it usually goes away on its own if you just rest it. It will be susceptible to happening again though. I have a recurring facet joint issue in my neck, and I have friends who have had facet joint issues in other parts of their backs. I've talked quite a bit with my chiro about these issues.

If you had a disc problem, the pain would be constant and it would probably be in some area other than your back, like somewhere in your hips or legs.

Thanks a lot! Interesting to hear that it was probably a facet joint problem, I'll do some reading.

I won't be competing in PL in the near future, so I'll stick to front squats for now. On those, though (and on DLs), I have trouble with upper back rounding. I've recently added in some bent over rows and heavy, short (~20 sec) isometric holds in the front rack to attempt to strengthen my upper back. I haven't seen much progress yet; I think I might just need to front squat more.

Is upper back rounding under a load comparably dangerous to low-back rounding? Should I be avoiding even heavy front squats if I can't do them without upper back rounding? If so, is there anything else I could be doing to strengthen the upper back and prevent rounding?

Its probably mostly a core strength and activation issue.

No, its not as bad.

Just do them lighter until you get better at doing heavier ones.

http://www.t-nation.com/training/superhuman-planks

I see the upper back round behind the frame of the rack 12-14secs.

I had that happen once and felt the same pain described itt.

Front Squats cure back squats.....imo

Cool, I actually read this the other day and mentioned it to a friend. Tried it before a set of front squats as recommended and didn't notice a difference, but I'll definitely keep including these. Thanks again.

BPA, I think you're right now that you mention it. It's pretty slight compared to what I had in the past, but definitely some rounding. Front squats it is.

1/12

bench press
55x15
105x10x2
145x10
195x5
235x3
265x3
295x2
315x1
325x2
290x6

3 board press with Ram on
375x3
415x3
435x3
415x3

TBDL off 4.5" blocks
450x5
540x5x3

face pulls
125x15x2

1/14

DL
235x5x3
325x4
415x2
425x1 oops, misloaded the bar
435x4x4
490x2
550x2

TBDL
520x8

Very nice.

I think I left after the 490 but it looked just as snappy as the 4th 435 set.

Btw Cha, any chance of putting my DL video up or emailing it to me? I'd love to have it in my log for current and future reference, .

thanks!

yeah, maybe tomorrow. I might put my 550x2 video in here too.

You def should.

2nd went up faster than 1st. Sick. I'm sure that felt heavy but, really, it doesn't look anywhere close to your max (not that it should). Where do you feel like you might be at 1rm-wise atm?

Nice work Cha.

Just looked at your 551 from 4 months ago side-by-side with this one. Definitely going up faster/snappier on this one, especially 2nd rep. 4 months ago the 2nd one looked harder, this time it looked like child's play.

amazing man

I'm unsure. Somewhere between 560 - 600 I suppose.

yeah, I cant remember the 4 month old one clearly enough, but you might be right.

thanks!

thanks!

thanks!

I didn't go back to view that but that's some awesome progress. 2nd rep at 550 was definitely sick as hell. Totes jealin', as cha would say.

man your setup is so nice. just no bs.

for the 2nd rep crowd, you realize this is touch n go, yes? it should go up faster. This doesn't detract from the sickness. Just sayin'.

Yeah, I do realize that although at the same weight 4 months ago the 2nd rep did not go up faster - which is really the reason for my point, not just that the 2nd rep was easier:



It's also not quite a touch n go. At least not the way I've seen other people do it - but it's obviously far from a 2nd dead-stop rep.

Anyway, last time it seemed pretty close to a 2rm but this time it doesn't to me.

All of this is kind of moot simply b/c it's not like it's an actual PR or anything - I just watched all his sets before that one and then left his house. Earlier some of his warmups were not super snappy and I was not sure how tough the heavy double would be for him.

it's touch and go.

But yes it's obviously improved over the past 4 months. Which is no surprise, cha is killing it.

I can agree to agree on that. You're right about the touch n go, I dno though, I get sick of watching watertrash (amidoinitrite) at my gym seemingly bounce their touch n gos and do neverending sets of light DLs with awful form.

yeah, I think what I do sometimes is T & G, which is different than slam & bounce.