Different strokes. Me and Vinnie have both tried both of them (heh.. sounds really gay) and had hy00ge side effects. But I already have hypotension so perhaps thats why.

I guess that might explain it. How low are we talking exactly? What are you walking around at daily?

off gear and no lifting around 84/54, on gear + lifting pretty normal 104/62 up to 120/70ish.

I was falling down just getting out of my chair about 10% of the time during this lockdown looool.

did my first non trt shot last night. Test and deca here we go!

Damn, that's low. You might legit need a literal fainting couch.

Mo money, mo problems, so they say.

But yeah, aside from some general despair during COVID, everything in my life has been pretty great for a long time.

Pretty much. Needless to say babby is gonna affect a large amount of general health issues that directly affect libido.

I think the biggest part of it is the sample of people who have weenus issues also have a variety of factors. Obese men have issues with weenus hardness and obviously any sort of treatment like Viagra carries actual risks.

I'm not a medical expert by any means, but generally healthy adult males rarely have issues getting hardons.

lol

Guy,

Yeah. I was just explaining my general mental roadmap for evaluating when I need to start. It will eventually happen, but TRT is something I want to add to my life when I have an actual need for it rather than just to boost me from normal to "very very high normal" and commit myself to a life of it. Another major issue is just lifestyle. Getting a script seems rather difficult here (less so for me since I have that sweet private healthcare, thanks universal healthcare), and obviously some countries I travel to may or may not have issues.

Just becomes another aspect of life that is tedious and for what end?

yeah that's a legit concern. Some people are actually pretty bothered by pinning themselves 1-2x/wk. I'm not though.


Glute+Ham+Shoulders

Deadlift: 95kgx10x4 on a deficit with 10s hold at the end mixed grip
Hamstring curls: 35kgx10x4
Glute kickback machine (unilateral): 1px10x4

DB seated ohp: 20kgx10x4 jk on the no freeweight pressing lol
Prone db delt flies: 5 sets failure
Machine plate loaded press: 1px10, 1.5ppsx10x3, x6
Pec deck rear delts: ??x12x7

Meal 1
60g oats+skim+mixed berries+1 scoop protein+almond butter+honey

Meal 2
225g chicken 300g rice

Meal 3
Really bad lamb and rice with some carrots from a restaurant, probably ~150g lamb and 250g rice

Meal 4
160g chicken 200g rice

Meal 5
2 cups mixed frozen berries+skim+fat free high protein greek yogurt+2 scoops whey

Meal 6
Small cheese pizza

Diet structure will basically be something like that. 3 meat+rice meals, 1 oatmeal or cream of rice/cream of wheat meal, 1 shake with fruit, 1 free meal where I just do whatever I want and can also repeat a meat and rice meal. I wanted to eat beef+potato+veggie meal but the restaurant I usually go to was closed. Hope not permanently and it's just b/c of lockdown but who knows...

Gonna try out some 90/10 ground beef patties. They should arrive by thursday. Hope there's not a ton of gross additives and they taste like actual beef so I can have beef regularly in the diet. I need to buy a new freezer tho.

Back+bis
Pullups: bwx14, 10, 7, 6, 5 left a lot in the tank
Machine rows: 45x10x4
Single arm plate loaded pulldowns: 95kgx15,12,12,10
Cable rows: 25x10x4
Rope pullovers: variousx12x7
EZ curls: 20kgx10x3
Hammer curls: 12.5kgx10x3

Feels incomplete without barbell rowing. I'll do underhand rows but do them as 3rd or 4th lift with a lot of lat fatigue so that the amount of lower back/pchain loading is trivial. Cable rows don't feel very effective. Maybe pullups then single arm pulldowns then barbell rows then machine chest supported rows. Rope pullovers good for the FST7 set.

Still starting slow and easy. Sesh RPE maybe a 3. Hoping to stay slow and not try to rush myself into heavy exertion. Maybe around week 4 my session RPEs should be in the 7-8 range. It's better to string together a bunch of half-assed 6s and 7s consistently than to hit 8s-9s for a few weeks in a row then get hurt and not be able to train at full.

What kind of total calorie and macro breakdown are you shooting for?

who gives a **** at this point. Macro tracking is super donk for offseason ectomorph who has trouble gaining weight. The eventual meal plan I'd like to progress to is:

Meal 1
Protein shake blended with fruit, skim, almond milk, oats

Meal 2
Lean meat 200-225g
70-100g carbs from rice/potato/pasta/honey
added fats if desired, guacamole packs from sam's club or cashews/almonds/almond butter

Meal 3
Fatty meat 250g (bought some 90/10 ground beef patties to try out and hope they arent packed with soy/bullshiet non beef products in a way that makes it taste bad)
70-100g carbs

Meal 4
Repeat 2

Meal 5
Repeat 3

Meal 6 whatever you want, often repeat meal 1 because it's easier to get down liquid cals

5ius of humalog meals 1, 3, 5 on Leg, chest, back days. Lantus? maybe, if so it'd just be 20-25iu either at lunch or before bed. No insulin or mk677 for the first 4-6 weeks until progress starts slowing down a lot.

It'd be silly to take calories that high right now becuase anything and everything I do will work coming from being so detrained/off AAS for 3 months. Once I start stalling then we start getting more serious about eating. All meats are getting much less available. I used to be able to get fresh chicken breast delivered whenever I want, now it's getting much harder and I cna get frozen consistently but fresh is often out of stock and i ain't got time to actually go to the store. I'm gonna invest $150 in a small freezer because the one attached to my fridge doesn't work. Literal 3rd world problems. Swine flu might **** availability of meats even more this year but frozen meats are probably always going to be easy to get.

Chest sandbaggin
Incline paused bb: 60kgx10x4
Machine press: 10-12x4
Machine pec dec fly: 10-12x4
Incline cable fly machine: 10kgx12x5, 7.5kgx12x2 20 sec rests

Sesh rpe 3.5

This is one of my favorite high calorie ways of eating chicken and rice. Very tasty and great micro and macronutrients for the bodybuild.

Quads+glutes

HBBS: 80kgx10x4
Leg press: 2ppsx20x3
Glute kickback machine: 0.5px10x3 each side



I love this glute kickback machine, quickly becoming my favorite peice of leg equipment. Even though it's a glute machine, it's one of the only things where i feel my VMOs activating a lot (and glutes too with a bit of hamstring). Low CNS load but I feel a lot of tension in the muscles and a good pump.

another podcast I really like. This is actually Zack Telander's friend and roommate. He's been very successful in his podcast and his interests strongly overlap with my own. Maybe some readers might also enjoy. Mostly pop-social science related topics.

That makes sense. But you seem fastidious enough to do it anyway. Apparently not.

Not even rough minimum protein and calorie goals? What's the minimum amount that you want to be eating (even if you're not tracking).

arms

Preacher curls: 15kgx12x7
Dual rope pushdowns: ??x12x7

SS1
DB hammer curls: 7.5kgx12x4
db skullcrushers: 7.5x12x4

SS2
EZ curl: 15kgx12x4
Pushdowns: 15kgx12x4

woulda done a 3rd superset too but first week back and I was already doms coming into the gym.

Hamstrings+glutes

5in deficit dl: 100kgx10x4
Glute kickback machine: 1px10x3
Hip thrust machine: .5px10x3
Hamstring curls: 25kgx12x7 30 seconds rests

Decided I don't need a second day of pressing motions. Just throw in some machine OHP and raises at the end of chest day. So 2 leg days per week now, one for quads and one glutes+hams. Cool.

Chest+delts

Paused incline bb: 70kgx10, 60kgx10x4
Machine press: 24x10-12x4
Cable crossovers: 5-7.5kgx10x3
Incline cable fly machine: 12x7 30 sec rests

Prone delt raises: 5 sets failure
Machine ohp: 1ppsx15,8,6

I don't like our pec deck and most of the time the cable machine is in use so can't do crossovers regularly. But I was able to last night which was nice; this is a movement I really feel. It might be worth waiting 10-15 minutes for 24 year old ostensibly able bodied but weak minded guy who doesn't use free weights to finish his 7 sets of pushdowns with massive rest periods playing on his phone bc the exercise is that good. None of the gyms near me have 2 cable machines and it is by far the most popular piece of equipment since most cable exercises are easy and don't make people exert themselves very much.

New split

Mo
Deadlift+hams and glutes

Tu
Chest+delts

We
Back (underhand rows are returning as 2nd lift)

Thu
Quads (HBBS, leg press, glute kickback thing, and then maybe one of lunges, leg extensions, or hamstring curls)

Fri
Arms

morning bw 97ish.

@loco

Anavar really is just the best anabolic there is in terms of gains to side effects ratio. I'm a big fan. Can run 20mg/day year-round without issue if you're already on test. And now this..

Got a source for flank steak. Normally they don't really butcher stuff in China like they do in the west; ribeye, filet, and sirloin are available but not more niche cuts like flank/skirt/shoulder blade/flat iron/ "top sirloin" or 95/5 90/10 ground beef. The ground beef I referred to before ended up being awful with a weird chewy texture and a ton of additives that tasted weird.

If the flank is decent it'll probably be my primary protein source around 80-90% of my meals. 6 meals per day is too much for me as far as timing. So it'll probably be 2 shakes with banana+oats, then 2 steak+carb meals, then 1 free meal but nothing too stupid/still bodybuilding food.

Back

Pullups: bwx15,11,7,6,5
Underhand rows: 60kgx10x2, 50kgx10x2 short rests
Single arm plate loaded pulldowns: 1.5ppsx10x4 no rest, just one arm after the other until i got to 4 sets each side
Machine rows: 30kgx10x4
Rope pullovers SS with pullup bar hangs for 20 seconds: 7.5kgx12x7 so basically just hang from a pullup bar for 20 seconds between each set then right back into the next set. Felt great.


Been really good on eating like a bodybuilder. Feel super full all the time and never ever hungry. Kinda like the rippetoe bulking days back in 2010 when I went from 170lbs to 195lbs in like 6 months. Except this time doing it with meat, rice, vegetables, almond butter, banana instead of burgers and whole milk, so my stomach feels a lot better and I'm not forcefeeding as hard. I'm looking harder and waist shrinking despite literally eating even when not hungry for nearly every meal of the day. Muscle memory, I'm sure that will stop in another 2 weeks.

This was my question. Fats vs carbs for getting in calories for offseason low appetite bodybuilders. Pretty interesting discussion... basiclaly higher fats are definitely more palatable, but because of the effect of carbs on insulin and because fats can slow down digestion/reduce appetite, you usually endup with higher calories doing leaner meats during a bulk. Flank is lean-ish, so probably best to do 2 chicken meals 2 steak meals 1 shake.

Quads
HBBS: 85kgx10x4
Leg press: 2ppsx20x3
GLute kickback: 1ppsx10x3


Excessive fiber. Bloating. No appetite. Don't eat 4 bananas+veggies+20g fiber from gummies+veggies+1.5 cups raw oats+2tbsp almond butter per day. Lesson learned.

ARMS

FST7 sets were preacher curls and dual rope pushdowns, 15kg on preachers and 10kg on dual rope. I couldn't complete the preacher curls staying with 30 second rests, got up to over a minute last 2 sets.

DB seated curls//skullcrushers: 7.5kgx12x4
EZ curls//straight pushdwosn: 15kgx15x4
REverse curls//Overhead triceps: 15kgx15,15,12,13//15kgx15,15,12,12

19 sets for bis and 19 for tris. Sweet. True volumetarding.

Morning bw 98 gym bw 101 which was just under my peak offseason weight last academic year. Most all time was around 101 morning 104 gym.

Deficit DL: 105kgx10x4
Glute kickback machine: 1px11x3
Machine hip thrust: .5px10x3
Hamstring curls: 22.5-27.5kgx12x7 40 second rests

I have no idea how much weight the deficit is equivalent to. Maybe 15-20kg? But I did some non deficit pulls and it felt incredibly easy by comparison. But I feel a much better glute contraction doing deficit. Will I go back to DLs from the floor eventually? sure I guess, I feel lower back and hamstrings more pulling from floor but more glutes+quads from deficit.

I definitely feel much weaker this week. Not proper load management after a layoff. Also had some proximal bicep tendon pain. Backoff and slow down I guess.... no reason to rush back into things; I know I've worked up to easy 180kgx3 squat, 230kgx3 deadlift, and 40kgx17 db 30 degree inclineRushing will just injure me and slow me down. Get the reps in and let the food and PEDs do their work.


Paused incline bb: 75kgx10, 60kgx10x3 I don't think I coulda done more than 13 for the top set. I'm hoping to have around 5-7 reps in the tank, not 2-3.
High cable crossovers: 5kgx15x4
Low cable crossovers 2.5-5kgx10x4
incline db fst 7 with 15kg dbs (chest press taken)

Shoulder raises: 5 sets
Machine ohp: 1px20, 12, 10

Next week reduce loads on incline bb and deficit DL, squat idk maybe stay around the same.

Trained with the boyos in the powerlifting gym today. Back is one of the only muscle groups that I don't really need fancy equipment for and their "rowdown" machine is actually one of the best lat equipments I've used.

Pullups: bwx 16, 12, 7, 6, 5 shorter rests than normal b/c training with a partner
Trap bar rows: 40kgx10x3, 45kgx10 felt awesome but humbling. The extra rom is killer + the bar weighs more so it's not actually 40kg
Rowdown machine: variousx10x4 unilateral
DB CSR: 15kgx10x3
Rope pullover SS with holds on the pullups bw: ??x12x5, 10, 8 and 30 second holds

We all went out to a middle eastern restaurant and the 7 of us probably ordered more food than anyone has ever ordered and eaten in one sitting since it's 5 competitive strength athletes, 1competitive offseason bodybuilder, and one normie lifting noob.

BW was 98.x this morning with the bloat and inflammation and it's been 13 hours since I ate but I don't feel hungry because I slammed absurd amount of food. My flank steak is quality so I'm gonna order ~20kg and eat around 600-750g cooked basically every day and have it as my primary meat/protein source. My favorite bodybuilding meal ever is sweet potatos+ steak. I can get these crispy skinless sweet potato chunks that cook in 40 minutes from frozen in the oven and taste delicious. Problem though is that sweet potatos are fairly high volume so they aren't a great offseason food... maybe something you can eat once per day and then have your rice/pasta/more calorie dense carbs with the other meals.

Can definitely still diet on flank steak without doing a keto diet; just take out a lot of the added fats. I've also decided that if in some miraculous situation we don't get gyms closed down again and everything goes smoothly, I will go ahead and do a standard 16 week cut this academic year starting in march again. Offseason and slamming this much food is pretty difficult and the big yearly contest cut is not just to get pretty and to practice/refine the process of cutting for a contest, but to give your digestive system a break!

Things are looking increasingly like zero covid policy will be gone after Feb/March. If that's the case, I'm staying put. Possibly even in the same job despite the god awful hours/workload to pay ratio because I really enjoy the location. And our workloads go down to Joke levels from May to June anyway. Couple that with winter and summer breaks and it's only really hard work like 6 months out of the year.