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Old 08-25-2017, 10:29 PM   #101
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Re: Another SS log

August 24

Not a great day, knew it was coming, didn't feel very limber going into the workout

OHP
2x5x90
1x7x90

DL
1x4x265
1x5x185
1x10x135 P
Back to This is definitely primarily a grip issue. Also a bit of a bad day for sure, I shouldn't drop 2 reps for 5 pounds. Deload to 235.

I don't think chalk is really useful for me, my hands don't get sweaty, the bar just starts rolling down my fingers. I'll def use straps next time the weight gets up in this range. Probably just for the workset, I'll keep doing standard triples to keep the grip strong.

Curls 5x10x50
Calve Raises 5x10x125
TRX 3x15

Have 3 good compound accessories on squat day, so just going to pump city here
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Old 08-26-2017, 12:03 AM   #102
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Re: Another SS log

Switch to mixed grip and repeat 265 IMO. Doesn't seem worth a ~month setback if it was only grip limiting you.

Also chalk will help even if you don't have sweaty hands. Skin is moist by default.
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Old 08-26-2017, 06:58 PM   #103
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Re: Another SS log

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton555 View Post
Switch to mixed grip and repeat 265 IMO. Doesn't seem worth a ~month setback if it was only grip limiting you.

Also chalk will help even if you don't have sweaty hands. Skin is moist by default.
You may be right in theory, but I don't have any urgency to hit 300. My deadlift is already quite a bit higher than all my other lifts, and I'm ok with following the program even if its a bit inefficient. I'd be just a couple sessions from a month long deload anyways. I've never felt comfortable with mixed grip, I use it for a couple sets every time.

August 26

BP
2x5x127.5, 1x8x127.5
1x5x132.5

Was happily surprised to find this so easy, maybe had one more in the tank. Then I realized I did the math wrong and was 5 lb light

Barely got the 5th rep up. Moving up to 135 anyways, but don't have high hopes. I had to break down form on the 5th rep to get it up.

There's been a bit of lower back stress from the arching for 30 seconds after the lift, I'm hoping thats just a stretch and will go away and actually benefit me eventually.

Squat
2x5x165, 1x6x165

No belt this time, was a bit more difficult than I was expecting. Still have a couple more progressions in me though I think

Pullups 3x5
Lunges 2x10x75
Wide pull-ups 1x5, 1x4

Quite a bit of shoulder tension with this combination of lifts, I think it should be fine as long as I keep up with rotator cuffs. Probably felt a bit worse than it needed to due to the bad last bench rep.
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Old 08-26-2017, 10:50 PM   #104
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Re: Another SS log

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I'd be just a couple sessions from a month long deload anyways.
What do you mean?


The problem is that people generally can't double overhand what they can deadlift, so working on your grip for a while isn't going to bridge that gap. Especially since you seem to have pretty good genetics for the lift. So you're just kicking the can down the road to a large extent here; eventually, you're going to need to become comfortable with the mixed grip, otherwise learn the hook grip or start strapping all your heavy sets.
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Old 08-27-2017, 01:58 AM   #105
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Re: Another SS log

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What do you mean?
Even with straps I don't think I get many more progressions before failing. I don't think reloading now is a high leverage decision that will significantly impact my progress.

Quote:
The problem is that people generally can't double overhand what they can deadlift, so working on your grip for a while isn't going to bridge that gap. Especially since you seem to have pretty good genetics for the lift. So you're just kicking the can down the road to a large extent here; eventually, you're going to need to become comfortable with the mixed grip, otherwise learn the hook grip or start strapping all your heavy sets.
Yeah I think I will start using straps for heavy sets. My grip will still improve over time, I'll just probably never be able to do my max DL with a standard grip.
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Old 08-27-2017, 03:31 AM   #106
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Re: Another SS log

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Even with straps I don't think I get many more progressions before failing.
I see a couple of problems with this statement.

First of all, you don't know this. Which is to say it isn't knowable. In all likelihood, you'll find strength you didn't know you had once you realize how much of a limiting factor grip has been all this time, leading to months of linear progress. Or maybe not.

The second problem is that once you "fail," it will be a sign that it's time to program the lift a bit differently(*). There are a couple of ways to respond to that, but the job of a beginner program is to make gains as fast as possible.



(*) The Rippetoe approach IIRC is a 90% reset in weight, then another reset, then dropping the frequency to once weekly instead of every other workout. Eventually, he advocates pulling for one heavy set every two weeks.

(*) The everyone else in the world approach is to do more sets at lower intensity and just reduce the frequency that you go for a balls out set.
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Old 08-27-2017, 04:52 AM   #107
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Re: Another SS log

I think you will be surprised by how much more beneficial PROPER use of lifting straps will be.

I used mixed grip for a while but saw too many people on youtube(even experienced dudes) bust a bicep to my liking.

Yes I know its safe when done the right way but as the weights started getting heavier, I was trying to remember all these other cues and keep proper form...I just felt more comfortable sticking to double overhand with straps, one less thing to worry about.
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Old 08-27-2017, 12:06 PM   #108
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Re: Another SS log

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton555 View Post
I see a couple of problems with this statement.

First of all, you don't know this. Which is to say it isn't knowable. In all likelihood, you'll find strength you didn't know you had once you realize how much of a limiting factor grip has been all this time, leading to months of linear progress. Or maybe not.

The second problem is that once you "fail," it will be a sign that it's time to program the lift a bit differently(*). There are a couple of ways to respond to that, but the job of a beginner program is to make gains as fast as possible.



(*) The Rippetoe approach IIRC is a 90% reset in weight, then another reset, then dropping the frequency to once weekly instead of every other workout. Eventually, he advocates pulling for one heavy set every two weeks.

(*) The everyone else in the world approach is to do more sets at lower intensity and just reduce the frequency that you go for a balls out set.
I've already "failed" once in all my lifts, and twice in OHP. The expectation of that is built into GSLP. The intensity hasn't gone down too much because I only reduce 10% and still have the AMRAP. Each time I've come back and comfortably beat the previous max. The program seems to be working so I don't see any reason not to keep following it until I start failing to beat previous maxes.
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Old 08-27-2017, 12:08 PM   #109
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Re: Another SS log

Quote:
Originally Posted by magking1 View Post
I think you will be surprised by how much more beneficial PROPER use of lifting straps will be.

I used mixed grip for a while but saw too many people on youtube(even experienced dudes) bust a bicep to my liking.

Yes I know its safe when done the right way but as the weights started getting heavier, I was trying to remember all these other cues and keep proper form...I just felt more comfortable sticking to double overhand with straps, one less thing to worry about.
That is pretty much my thoughts as well. I know it is viable, but don't see any reason to add the complexity. Avoiding injury is many orders of magnitude more important than strength gains for me.
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Old 08-27-2017, 01:04 PM   #110
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Re: Another SS log

Sorry, I missed that you were doing GSLP and not SS.

I think your plan is reasonable but I would suggest that you ditch GSLP once you're only able to add 10 or fewer pounds to your 5 rep deadlift in one reset cycle. GSLP is great except that the open ended nature of it leads to people staying on beginner programming for way too long.
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Old 08-27-2017, 11:58 PM   #111
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Re: Another SS log

As a compromise to renton switching to #nodaysoff until I get back to 265

August 27

OHP
3x5x92.5

Haven't done a video of this in a while. My bar path isn't perfect, but not sure why I'm not seeing any improvement.



DL
1x6x235
2x3x235
1x5x185
1x10x135 P

Major grip issues again, I'd assume due to fatigue. Should have hit 8 or 9. Put in an order for straps.



DB hammer curl (change of pace) 5x10x20
Calve raises 5x10x145
TRX 3x15

Half week meal prep:
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Old 08-29-2017, 10:13 PM   #112
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Re: Another SS log

August 29

BP
2x5x135
1x6x135

Surprised myself here, thought I was due for a fail, and don't think I could have gotten 6 on either of the first 2 sets. Form was good throughout.

HBBS
2x5x170
1x6x170

Belt on the last set, used properly this time was a big difference, especially right at the bottom of the lift. Was close to 7 but chickened out

Pullups 1x7, 1x6
Ran out of time so just took the easy pullup PR to feel accomplished
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Old 08-29-2017, 11:30 PM   #113
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Re: Another SS log

What is your average time in gym per workout?
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Old 08-30-2017, 12:17 AM   #114
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Re: Another SS log

Usually somewhere between 1-1.5 hours. This was probably around 50 minutes
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Old 09-01-2017, 06:25 PM   #115
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Re: Another SS log

September 1

OHP
3x5x95

Actually under-performed the last time I was at this weight. Any tips on how to progress OHP? Thinking of switching to 5x5 for this lift to get more volume.

DL
1x8x240 strp
2x3x240 w/o
1x5x185
1x10x135 P

Straps definitely help! I'm back in Toronto and found the bar that I originally failed 240 with, felt satisfying hitting 8. Thought I could hit 10, its interesting how only once I set the bar down the blood starts rushing to my head, I start noticing myself panting and heart racing.
Somehow even the triples were really hard for grip, and my form suffered. Either I've gotten weaker or more fatigued, but I'll probably have to start using straps for everything and do some side grip work.

curls/calves/WC

Massage afterwards, ridiculously tight ankles/quads/glutes. Desperately need to put more focus on mobility training.
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Old 09-05-2017, 08:19 PM   #116
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Re: Another SS log

September 4

Decided to go with a friend, big mistake...

BP
3x5x135
No microplates while traveling, so stayed back rather than jumping 5lb. Pretty sure I had 7 or 8 of the AMRAP, but my friend who was spotting me got a phone call on the first rep of my last set and proceeded to answer it and chat while directly above me which killed my focus. He insisted afterwards that it was ok, and I take working out too seriously - he prefers more casual...

Squat
3x5x135
Could see a similar story panning out, humming loudly during my warm up sets, tying his shoes on the safeties during my set, so decided to cut things short and just get some weight on my back and get out. I did get to see him attempt to back squat with his hands in front squat position. Left knee was also clicking which was concerning.

pullups 1x6

Pretty silly, but at least I moved some weight, back home now so back on the wagon.
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Old 09-07-2017, 09:25 PM   #117
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Re: Another SS log

September 7

OHP/Lat Pulldown(3x12x40)
2x5x97.5
1x6x97.5

Sorta lost count, but I think thats right. Definitely some strength gains but pretty marginal. I think most of the improvement here is from a) Breathing at the top b) Chalk c) Improved tightness. I'll run this up as far as I can and increase volume on the next deload.

DL
1x9x245 strp
2x3x245 w/o
1x5x185
1x10x135 P



Curls 3x10x50, 1x6x60, 1x10x50
Calve raises 5x10x185

Planks 1x90', 1x45'
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:13 PM   #118
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Re: Another SS log

Between the trip home, work, moving to a new place and furnishing it, the routine has taken a bit of a back seat. Hopefully I can step up the consistency.

Sep 12

BP
3x5x137.5

Maybe had a 6th in me, but when my stopper unracked the bar my shoulders fell totally flat. Oh well, think I have a shot at 140 but very close to a failure.

HBBS
2x5x175
1x6x175

Videos below, I think I'm a bit far forward.

The two main lifts each day take me about 50 minutes. Its rough spending almost an hour on basically 30 reps just because every session I'm trying to set a PR. If I want to follow my whole routine it will be 1.5hr+ in the gym, considered commute, shower, etc. its a 2.5 hour commitment. I'm not super advanced yet but I'm leaning strongly towards changing routine soon towards a hypertrophy routine, fits my goals more closely and from what I've read might be optimal long term anyways. Looking at something like PHAT, even if its more hours per week it would be easier to swallow if I'm getting more volume in smaller chunks, and I can modify it to have 2 or 3 days which I can do in my condo gym (which is actually pretty decent).

Lunges
1x2x95
Legs were just totally burned out after the bench and squat, shouldn't have gone to this weight - I was going to go for fewer reps but body said no.

Pullups 5/5/2/3/1
45 seconds rest between sets. Continuing the above, getting 5x5 took too much rest so changed it up a bit.
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:15 PM   #119
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Re: Another SS log

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Old 09-12-2017, 11:06 PM   #120
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Re: Another SS log

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibavly View Post
The two main lifts each day take me about 50 minutes. Its rough spending almost an hour on basically 30 reps just because every session I'm trying to set a PR. If I want to follow my whole routine it will be 1.5hr+ in the gym, considered commute, shower, etc. its a 2.5 hour commitment. I'm not super advanced yet but I'm leaning strongly towards changing routine soon towards a hypertrophy routine
Yeah, welcome to everyone's problem with beginner programs. I think your squat and deadlift are still low enough that you'd make a lot of gains on them doing 3x5 type programming for a while, but I don't see an issue with branching out into intermediate programming for your bench and ohp.

As far as taking too long in the gym, that's just something you're going to have to live with as you get more advanced and it takes more work to get stronger. You'll eventually need to extend the sessions to ~2 hours and possibly add more sessions per week to get the best results. That said, GSLP (and most beginner programs) have very low training density compared to most programs.

You can salvage GSLP for a while longer just by tacking on back-off sets with relatively short rest intervals, which would increase your volume a lot without spending much additional time and wouldn't require a total program change. After your amrap bench just take 10% weight off, rest for a minute or two and do 2 more sets.
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Old 09-13-2017, 12:19 AM   #121
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Re: Another SS log

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Originally Posted by Renton555 View Post
As far as taking too long in the gym, that's just something you're going to have to live with as you get more advanced and it takes more work to get stronger. You'll eventually need to extend the sessions to ~2 hours and possibly add more sessions per week to get the best results. That said, GSLP (and most beginner programs) have very low training density compared to most programs.

I don't necessarily care about the best results. I'm just never going to be at the point where I'm spending 10 hrs/week or so in the gym. I'm OK with that limiting my ultimate results, just trying to be as efficient as possible with the time I have.
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Old 09-13-2017, 02:31 AM   #122
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Re: Another SS log

Take a look at these various rep schemes. Something may click and you can might be able to incorporate them in your future programming to maximize time in gym.


https://www.t-nation.com/training/22-proven-rep-schemes

Last edited by magking1; 09-13-2017 at 02:50 AM.
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Old 09-13-2017, 11:58 AM   #123
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Re: Another SS log

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Originally Posted by magking1 View Post
Take a look at these various rep schemes. Something may click and you can might be able to incorporate them in your future programming to maximize time in gym.


https://www.t-nation.com/training/22-proven-rep-schemes
I like the 6x6 short rest scheme. Overall I think high volume low rest with more days in the gym for less time per session fits better into my goals/lifestyle. I'd definitely not be able to lift anywhere near my current numbers in that scheme.
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Old 09-14-2017, 01:11 AM   #124
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Re: Another SS log

Some programming and general thoughts:

-I do think you've got more left in the tank for "beginner program" gains.

-You might consider adding another set or 2 to your main lifts (and cutting out or supersetting some of the accessory stuff if you're pressed for time).

-You could also just add 2 more lighter sets after your heavy first 3. Drop 15% or whatever that will get you around 10 reps at like RPE9, something like that. For some more volume.

-At some point consider adding weight weekly instead of every time (not sure if you're doing this already).

-Reps with the 3rd being AMRAP...
5,5,8 should prob require about 2-2.5min
5,5,7 ~3 min
5,5,6 3.5-4 min
5,5,5 4-5min
in my experience

-Pay attention to your weight, say on a weekly basis. If you're not gaining weight you could consider bumping up food another 200-300 and see if you can eek out some more gains. I did this like 3 times while running beginner style program. Stall, add food, progress a little more.

-I think if that fits you better eventually switch to a more hypertrophy based style but I'd recommend milking all the gains you can get here. Im sure you'll make gains and get stronger with any decent routine and a diet that supports it though. Fwiw I spend about 70-100 minutes on my routine depending, squats take me forever to get warmed up

edit:

was just looking thru your thread to see the gains you've made and noticed your comment about your back slipping and tough to maintain an arch. Not sure if you've solved this yet but if not... If your gym has some bands (or buy one) strap it over the bench, stole that from OmarIsuf, works wonders.

Like this but I make an X just using 1:

Last edited by TooCuriousso1; 09-14-2017 at 01:23 AM.
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Old 09-14-2017, 12:36 PM   #125
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Re: Another SS log

Quote:
Originally Posted by TooCuriousso1 View Post
Some programming and general thoughts:

-I do think you've got more left in the tank for "beginner program" gains.
I'm sure I do, I have no doubt that if I continue the program I'll continue progressing. I'll probably gain regardless of my programming. It seems like the main goal of the beginner programs is just to get used to lifting heavy, not to be optimal in any way.

Quote:
-You might consider adding another set or 2 to your main lifts (and cutting out or supersetting some of the accessory stuff if you're pressed for time).

-You could also just add 2 more lighter sets after your heavy first 3. Drop 15% or whatever that will get you around 10 reps at like RPE9, something like that. For some more volume.
I'll probably do this until I switch programs. Probably need to drop more like 25% to hit 10 reps, especially after 3 worksets.

I feel like supersetting SQ/DL is tough because it would probably hurt me in the lifts. supa setting lat pulldown to OHP and pullup to bench should work though.

Quote:
-At some point consider adding weight weekly instead of every time (not sure if you're doing this already).
I only perform each lift 1.5x per week so thats a small change.

I'll probably stop adding weight to squat for a bit - or even drop down - after how bad the form on 175 was. Won't add weight til I get a video where my back isn't collapsing.

DL I'm happy to keep going with linear progression. It's a fun lift and esp b/c I just added straps I have plenty of room to move up.

Bench I have been progressing more slowly for practical purposes (have forgotten to bring microplates)

OHP I'm close to done with beginner gains, going to stall for the 3rd time soon.

Quote:
-Reps with the 3rd being AMRAP...
5,5,8 should prob require about 2-2.5min
5,5,7 ~3 min
5,5,6 3.5-4 min
5,5,5 4-5min
in my experience
Looks about right, problem is I'm spending so much time at 5,5,5, even my 6s are usually a bit of a stretch. I also do fairly long warmups, try to get 20-30 reps in.

Quote:
-Pay attention to your weight, say on a weekly basis. If you're not gaining weight you could consider bumping up food another 200-300 and see if you can eek out some more gains. I did this like 3 times while running beginner style program. Stall, add food, progress a little more.
Haven't actually gained weight at all since I started, been around 158 throughout. Scale also has me at 23% BF throughout. Either the scale is wrong (likely) or all my gains have come from technique.

Quote:
-I think if that fits you better eventually switch to a more hypertrophy based style but I'd recommend milking all the gains you can get here. Im sure you'll make gains and get stronger with any decent routine and a diet that supports it though. Fwiw I spend about 70-100 minutes on my routine depending, squats take me forever to get warmed up
People generally recommend milking LP for as long as possible, I'm not sure if there is actually a strong reason for that or if its just because it looks more effective. I'll be lifting heavier continuing with LP for sure, but that isn't necessarily a good thing.

Quote:
edit:

was just looking thru your thread to see the gains you've made and noticed your comment about your back slipping and tough to maintain an arch. Not sure if you've solved this yet but if not... If your gym has some bands (or buy one) strap it over the bench, stole that from OmarIsuf, works wonders.
Yeah this is great, I was going to start doing it but ever since I switched to 'so you think you can bench' style I haven't had any problems digging my shoulder blades into the bench. I've used a yoga mat a few times in the past, its helpful also getting me higher up to make unracking easier, and making leg flexibility less of an issue.
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