how much water did you drink before the weigh-in?

I know I drank almost a 1/2 gallon right before mine and ate a ton in the days leading up to it. Of course after seeing some SS eating logs, it really wasn't that much.

What kind of time frame are you looking at?

I really think vid is real, and I am not sure they are drunk, they might be stumbling around because the trained boxer just unleashed on them.

And there is no way in a million years that was an accident...you see the other guy look at them walking by and he probably says something to his buddy. And his buddy who thinks he is tough sucker punches the girl because there is no way the boyfriend would be able to do anything vs 2 kind of big guys...or so he thought lol.

Best comment ever in the comments section:

""Why would you even think of starting **** with a guy confident enough to wear THAT track suit!"

And it is obvious without a doubt the guy is a trained boxer, probably just came from the gym with the tracksuit on lol.

And what exactly were the 2 guys running after him for at the end of the video...what were they planning to do when they caught him...they couldn't touch him haha.

It's random someone posted that video. I had a buddy telling me bout it the other day. This could all be bull**** but he claimed the 2 dudes were pikey sp? bare knuckle boxers and wanted to try to whip a real boxer or something like that. I have no clue where he got that information or if it's true.

i think the answer to that is unequivocally no. it may have taken him longer, but he made all these gains on workout to workout increases. he'd end novice gains earlier and be on intermediate programming, but he'd definitely still have the potential to match (and eventually crush) those lifts at a lower bodyweight/bodyfat.

Why 12%?

This makes me think that your views in this whole controversy are colored by the fact that you did very well on SS while only gaining like 5 pounds and probably losing BF%. That is a really really flukish occurrence imo, especially for a non-obese person.

It's not clear from the details I'm aware of that Zach would have gained at a significantly higher LBM:fat ratio if he had eaten at a smaller surplus.

I mean isn't Rippetoe claiming Zach gained like 60% LBM? Assuming for the moment that's true, the implication of your statement above is that Zach would have gained at some substantially higher rate if he had bulked more slowly. That seems unrealistic to me.

If 60% is in fact high, maybe he gained at like 50% but would have gained at 55% if he had gained more slowly. NFI.



For reference I've done SS at two different levels of surplus...first three months were like 900 calories a day, the fourth month was like 1800 (these numbers are pretty vague but I have the records if it's important to figure out).

I tracked my bodyfat and weight this whole time and gained at the same 45-50% in both phases...just twice as fast (almost exactly) in that 4th month as in the preceding months.



I hope it doesn't sound like I'm disagreeing with you for the sake of disagreeing, just giving you my honest opinion.

Three months.

Based on the last few here at my workplace (and the one I am currently participating in) the winner is typically in the 13-15% range.

Okay, so Rip makes money off of his claims and hurts other people's businesses. If Rip's claims are false then it is because he doesn't know how to use a caliper or he has intentionally exaggerated the numbers. The person who is deciding whether or not to do SS has to make a judgment on those two issues. The academic who sees those numbers has to judge whether the case study has some merit and whether to preform a more scientific study that will meet the higher standards of academia. The businessman who suffers b/c less people are buying his crap since Rippetoe made these claims has to come out with a better study showing that his crap is better than Rippetoe's crap. People should think for themselves; there is no reason Rip is obligated to do a damn thing.

if it would have taken him longer and different programming then i would consider the answer to my question yes. or at least if i would have asked the question properly.

but i get what you are saying and it clarifies it for me.

meh, "muscle memory" or whatever it is played a large part. i was like 205lb at probably 15% bodyfat as a senior in high school and benched 300lb at 215 or so a couple years later. so i had built much of the muscle beforehand.

martin berkhan (username "Work") from leangains is another very respected guy in this arena, and he states pretty clearly that this is the case here, which is one of the earlier threads on lyle's forum about this topic.

i get it. you wanted to know if it could happen in the same timeframe, and it wouldn't.

the thing about it is the difference in time is minimal if you look at a training lifetime as a whole. the novice period is very short, relatively, whether you gain weight or not. i posted this on the SS boards, but why rip considers weight gain a sprint and training a much slower process is beyond me.

Oh. My. God.

These are ****ing hilarious.

Video 1- NSFW Language

Video 2- NSFW Language

What height are you?

alan aragon just registered on the SS boards fwiw. i saw elsewhere that he was waiting to respond to the "alternative to lyle" thread here. curious to see what he's going to say.

He will probably be the voice of reason.

popcorn awaiting, I think his post could go either way, he might tell them to **** themselves or he might hop on the opportunity to push more product and cater to the meatheads.

2nd one is great

When grown men hit each other, bad things happen. lol rogged vidz

vic, if your oly coach got you PC'ing 195 in a couple sessions, I would not even bother to read that everett book, at least not yet. It will probably just confuse you and ingrain 2 different styles at once. Let your coach coach you since he seems to be good, and actually has you lifting heavy weights (instead of a ****ing broomstick).

Obviously rip and others are right about squatting.

man i need a pc coach. 195 is nice.

i didnt pc 195. it was a full clean.

even better, because I can power clean 220 but I doubt I could do a full clean at 195, it's more difficult to perform for nubs. Either way, he has you going heavy.