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Old 03-09-2010, 05:24 AM   #701
kidcolin
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

my guess is zach's squats are high in the 70s big sense, but even if you're squatting 345 to an inch or two over parallel, you should be pulling well over 325.
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Old 03-09-2010, 05:35 AM   #702
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

Quote:
Originally Posted by milesdyson View Post
mic man,

you really need to thoroughly read all the threads. lyle never once said the limit on anyone like this would be 2lb per month. the article itself, obv written long before this debacle, even claims that this is not a hard limit and that it can be further surpassed by someone starting as thin/young as zach. what he has said recently is that rip is grossly overestimating the actual lbm gain. he has said that 10lb of this "muscle gain" could be attributed to increased glycogen. the worst part of this whole thing is people continually claiming the argument is 2lb/month vs. 7 or whatever rip is saying zach gained.

I thought the purpose of Rip doing these case studies was to refute Lyle's article?

I did read Lyle's article a while ago, and you are correct that he didn't say it was a hard limit and that young people could surpass it.

But it seemed to me from the way he phrased it in his article and from his subsequent comments on his forum that this was intended to be a grudging, limited exception. Something like "maybe a young kid can squeak out 3 pounds a month" or whatever.

Also doesn't glycogen count as LBM? I thought LBM was everything except fat.


Maybe I am missing an article somewhere. I do feel like I might be missing something because nobody else seems to view the argument in the terms that I am... (and I am no stranger to misconstruing arguments, lolz.)
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Old 03-09-2010, 05:52 AM   #703
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

Ugh.

I just found out today that the Gold's that is walking distance from my house is closing. There's always a million people there and a pretty crappy area/low rent so I don't understand how they could suck ass enough to not make a profit, though when I inquired about buying a rack they said everything was leased.. which seems ******ed frankly. Dunno but pretty annoyed.

Are there any good resources on this forum for buying used stuff from craigslist?
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Old 03-09-2010, 07:18 AM   #704
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

form checks please?
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Old 03-09-2010, 08:52 AM   #705
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
pretty sure thremp has bowed down before lyle's trolling abilities before.
Lies. One master does not bow down to another. Acknowledgment and recognition of their body of work is the mark of a professional.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skunkworks View Post
Can anyone think of any plausible scenario where one could squat past parallel but couldn't deadlift more than that?
No hands.
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Old 03-09-2010, 09:49 AM   #706
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thremp View Post
Originally Posted by skunkworks View Post
Can anyone think of any plausible scenario where one could squat past parallel but couldn't deadlift more than that?


No hands.
GENIUS IN OUR MIDST
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:02 AM   #707
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

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Squats look great imo.

At first I thought you were setting up too far behind the bar in the deadlift, but the bar looks fine, so it could just be camera angle... but the little rolling thing you do with the bar between reps tilts me. :P
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:39 AM   #708
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

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Originally Posted by busto_in_hawaii View Post
Squats look very solid. Still some buttwink but that will likely disappear as you get more reps under your belt and your PC becomes more flexible.

DLs looked very good as well. Is the dynamic start necessary because of flexibility issues or is it just a habit? I could forsee problems with control if you're still doing that when you're pulling 350+ which will be in the not too distant future.
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:40 AM   #709
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

What do you guys think about using occasional sunbed sessions for general health purposes? NOT FOR ZEH SEXINESS!!!

I'm from Scotland (-5,000,000 already on the sunlight scale) and have a fairly ****ty sleeping pattern. Up all night/sleep all day combined with not that unusual stretches of a few days or more where i'll hardly see any sunlight at all (and hardly ever at midday).

I'm beginning to think that this situation is not the greatest and tempted to cheat with a sunbed session occasionally. Again i'm completely indifferent to getting tanned or what not but curious to see if a few sessions could do me good. What you guys think?

I hear an avalanche of flames approaching
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:42 AM   #710
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

just take vit d instead. Its cheaper and simpler and it would be pretty odd to see a tanned person in Scotland I think. Plus, you might get burnt instead and end up looking like a leprechaun
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:49 AM   #711
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

Is this the March bitches thread?

Anyways, www.powerbar.com - free samples of the Power Bar Gel Blasts. You have to sign up with an email and agree to be sent those stupid offers and what not. I did it, we'll see how long it takes and if they even taste good or not.

Offer valid until 3/31/10.
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:53 AM   #712
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

Shrug I think tanning a tiny bit when living in sunless places like Scotland is fine to avoid the cancer patient/Casper the friendly ghost look. In fact, I think I'm a start doing it. Holla.

Last edited by Soulman; 03-09-2010 at 10:53 AM. Reason: Don't know much about science and stuff so won't say anything about the health issue
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:58 AM   #713
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtemp View Post
just take vit d instead. Its cheaper and simpler and it would be pretty odd to see a tanned person in Scotland I think. Plus, you might get burnt instead and end up looking like a leprechaun
lol. Yeah. I would get worshiped as a god if i got tanned here, that or they'd force me to tick the ethnic minority box in the census until i went back to the uberpale. Producers of vampire movies often come here to pick up extras btw

So you think vitamin D=adequete sunlight for the most part?

Would there not be any other benefits from getting actual UV light on the skin? I know sunlight affects the circadian rythem a bit but i don't know if a sunbed could do anything for that.

Again i don't know the answers, just curious to what all you sun rich bronzed ***** have to say on the matter. Cheers.
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Old 03-09-2010, 11:03 AM   #714
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

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Originally Posted by cookie View Post
1 rep each time I pass the pullup bar, it is in the toilet door atm, so it is like 20+ sets a day, 1 set in, 1 set out.
They have medication for bladder problems you know.
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Old 03-09-2010, 11:05 AM   #715
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulman View Post
Shrug I think tanning a tiny bit when living in sunless places like Scotland is fine to avoid the cancer patient/Casper the friendly ghost look. In fact, I think I'm a start doing it. Holla.
I remember when i was 21 i went backpacking to Thailand and met some Swedish people and even they were like wtf at how white i was (i'm not anaemic btw). That's when you know you live in Mordor.
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Old 03-09-2010, 11:09 AM   #716
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

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Originally Posted by jimi1999uk View Post
I remember when i was 21 i went backpacking to Thailand and met some Swedish people and even they were like wtf at how white i was (i'm not anaemic btw). That's when you know you live in Mordor.
At least we can call ourselves vikings and rape and pillage
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Old 03-09-2010, 11:11 AM   #717
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

You can definitely get enough vit d from supplementation, but I'm not sure about the other health benefits. There is some increased risk of skin cancer and melanoma but I'm not sure of the exact increases. But hell if it makes you feel better then go ahead although it may be hard for a really pale person to tan. I would probably tempted to tan if I was that pale as well.
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Old 03-09-2010, 12:09 PM   #718
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtemp View Post
You can definitely get enough vit d from supplementation, but I'm not sure about the other health benefits. There is some increased risk of skin cancer and melanoma but I'm not sure of the exact increases. But hell if it makes you feel better then go ahead although it may be hard for a really pale person to tan. I would probably tempted to tan if I was that pale as well.
i am sure you didn't mean it, but you pretty much called skin cancer a health benefit.
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Old 03-09-2010, 12:11 PM   #719
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

It is if you're trying to lose weight.

...
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Old 03-09-2010, 12:17 PM   #720
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

Canc is the new poz.
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Old 03-09-2010, 12:22 PM   #721
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimi1999uk View Post
What do you guys think about using occasional sunbed sessions for general health purposes? NOT FOR ZEH SEXINESS!!!

I'm from Scotland (-5,000,000 already on the sunlight scale) and have a fairly ****ty sleeping pattern. Up all night/sleep all day combined with not that unusual stretches of a few days or more where i'll hardly see any sunlight at all (and hardly ever at midday).

I'm beginning to think that this situation is not the greatest and tempted to cheat with a sunbed session occasionally. Again i'm completely indifferent to getting tanned or what not but curious to see if a few sessions could do me good. What you guys think?

I hear an avalanche of flames approaching
because you are so pale you need extremely little sunlight for health reasons. That is the whole point of people who live in places with little sunlight evolving pale skin, so that the UV radiation can slice right through your melanocytes with no resistance. Probably walking around outside on a cloudy day is good enough, or going outside for a few minutes on the occasional sunny day.

However, the tradeoff is that any UV light, including tanning beds, will probably cause DNA damage to your skin cells.
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Old 03-09-2010, 12:23 PM   #722
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

Quote:
Originally Posted by Micturition Man View Post
I thought the purpose of Rip doing these case studies was to refute Lyle's article?
not directly. someone on the SS boards brought up 2lb/month out of context without the exceptions given in the article.

Quote:
it seemed to me from the way he phrased it in his article and from his subsequent comments on his forum that this was intended to be a grudging, limited exception. Something like "maybe a young kid can squeak out 3 pounds a month" or whatever.
don't think so, but don't know for sure. that's one thing he hasn't said outright and i'd like to know.

Quote:
Also doesn't glycogen count as LBM? I thought LBM was everything except fat.
this is one of the things i was talking about a while ago when i mentioned water weight, visceral fat, and why i said i have no idea how many more ways these measurements could be skewed. i agree with you the LBM includes glycogen stores, but it definitely brings up another point. it isn't contractile muscle tissue and over a moderate gain of 15-20lb, it probably doesn't amount to much. so if someone were to gain 15lb and 1lb glycogen, it isn't very far off to count that as muscle tissue. but over an almost 80lb gain? again, i don't know. it's almost like "LBM gains" are only partially muscle gains and therefore misleading. all it really does is bring up more questions for me, questions lyle could likely answer but rip could not. what lyle has later said was "if he dieted down, he'd see he gained nowhere near that much muscle," which makes sense in this light (and in viewing his pictures).

most recent posts are below. also it's somewhat important to note rip actually claimed 46lb LBM gain in 6 months but that these were responses to someone who said it was 33. it was supposedly 31lb lbm gain in 11 weeks based on the novice effect article, so it's unclear exactly what rate lyle's arguing against.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lylemcd
Don't make dumb inferences, I never said he only gained 6 lbs of LBM. I said he didn't gain 33 lbs. Those words mean different things. And the squat depth (which I still want to see) has NOTHING to do with it. Another dumb inference on your part.

And what serrano said above regarding underweight newbies. I acknowledged in the original article and here and...you konw what, if you can't be bothered to pay attention I can't be bothered to type the same things up over and over again. You go do starting strength and GOMAD and PROVE ME WRONG about how much LBM can be gained in a short time frame. I won't hold my breath.

And I disagree with serrano that Rip is holding zach up as freak. Someone showed a quote to me where Rip said "We do this all the time here in WF" Do what all the time? Mis-estimate BF%age and make kids fat as hell? Yeah, I believe they do that all the time.

And before this turns even more nonsensical let me make this clear: I like Rip, I like Rip's books, I agree with most of what he says. But he's wrong about Zach's muscle gains. And I want to see that squat. Like I said, I LOVE being proven wrong. And I'm still waiting for it to happen. Video cameras are cheap and in the time we've spent with this stupidity, someone could have gotten Zach to video a single workokut and you can put me in my place. And I'll be happy to acknowlege I was wrong if I am.

So one of you guys go to rip's forum and make the request. C'mon, don't you want to see me put in my place? So what's the holdup?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lylemcd
And since I'm seriously considering closing this thread (seeing how dumb these arguments can get), I'll sum up my stance on this:

If you guys believe that zach did in fact
a. gain 33 lbs of muscle
b. increase in squat in good form in that time frame

More power to you. Perhaps Starting Strength is better than anabolics in terms of hte gains it can generate. But I doubt it. Just imagine if you stacked it with Anaconda.

Perhaps Zach did make strength gains pretty much no human has ever made before without having technique fall apart. It's possible. But that doesn't make it likely.

Without video, it's all guessing and I'll simply say again: I love being proven wrong, video is easy, so why haven't we seen it? You can keep making apologist excuses but that's the ultimate question. Why haven't we seen proof of this squat? Because, I tell you what: if I had a success story like that, I'd put up video on every page of this site to show how awesome I am.

It would be trivial to show this awesome squat and we haven't seen it? Why not? Until you can answer that, you have nothing useful to say.

Because I've been on the internet a LONG time and seen a lot of claims. And somehow the more absurd ones never seem to get proven. Instead you get a lot of verbiage a lot of excuses for why someone can't get a video, can't upload it, can't seem to prove their claim. Why is that? I'll tell you why: because it's easy to claim something. And harder to prove it. Yet, somehow Rip gets these amazing passes (same as CT got for his idiotic claims in I-bodybuilder) becuase he's Rip. If he says it, it's true. And if you dare suggest that perhaps he isn't 100% correct....well check out the thread his bozo followers started on his forum about me.

And I'm done with this thread. Keep it civil and feel free to keep arguing but I'm not interested in arguing about this any further. I can say factually that the claimed LBM gains are false. He might have gained more than six lbs but he didn't gain 33 lbs. PERIOD. The squat, show me video or stop making excuses or assuming that b/c he's at WF it must be a certain way. I've been in gyms for 15 years and seen what really goes on in gyms even under 'good' coaches. What they say and what you see don't always mesh.

Bottom line: Show me the video but spare me the excuses and apologism.
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Old 03-09-2010, 12:33 PM   #723
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

Jdock dropping some science itt
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Old 03-09-2010, 12:39 PM   #724
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

So the cliffs on Zach at the minute is that he is just fat?

Also I was watching MTV the other day and they are gonna start showing Jersey Shore over here. One of the commercials for it was "GET JUICED. GET JERSEY SHORED"
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Old 03-09-2010, 12:45 PM   #725
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

The key takeaway is understanding the framework of realistic LBM gains and building plans around it.

Implications of this include the Anaconda debacle and general bulking plans.
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