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Old 03-08-2010, 11:26 AM   #651
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

cookie,

Pavel's Ladders
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Old 03-08-2010, 11:28 AM   #652
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

Hrmmmm, I just checked some of my "facts" from that post and it turns out that acording to wiki, bryan habana (who is noted as one of the fasted rugby players in the world) is still around 205lbs.

but Shane Williams is a genuine small guy at 5'7" / 175ish. lulz, lucky he is mad fast and can dance.
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Old 03-08-2010, 11:53 AM   #653
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

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Ty ty.

I did some googling too. I think Ill go old school gtg to begin with, starting really low, like 1 rep each time I pass the pullup bar, it is in the toilet door atm, so it is like 20+ sets a day, 1 set in, 1 set out.

Ill try ladders if I get pressed for time later on or just to mix things up.

How many days am I supposed to do the same number of reps? Im in no hurry, so just adding 1 rep every week is fine I think, but maybe I should scale up a bit faster at the beginning. I can currently do 9 reps or 5x6 reps at the end of my normal training 1˝ hours of other stuff first.
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Old 03-08-2010, 11:54 AM   #654
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

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Originally Posted by 00Snitch View Post

fwiw...

Rugby ranges from about 175-300 with the extremes of that range being quite rare. It's uncommon for a rugby player to be under 185. The "standard" big guys generally come in around 220-260 and the "standard" little guys are more like 200-230.

It used to be that the "smaller" players dominated the backline because they were fast and agile, and those type of players still exist (Bryan Habanna, Shane Williams type players), but its probably more common now to see bigger "small" guys in the backline because they can be nearly as fast as the genuine small guys and can crush the smaller guys in terms of power.

Often now when there is a genuine small guy playing professional level rugby it is because they just have mad skills and are generally play makers (think quarter-back, punter and goal kicker combined) so not really required for hard super speed or power... or fighting NFL players.
What are the ratios of big to small players on a rugby team? It looks like they might have the edge over a hockey team. Hockey players are crazy, though, but then again, I'd imagine most rugby players are similarly nuts. Give a slight advantage to rugby players in being better at tackling and bringing them to the ground as well. Also, what is the range on heights of most rugby players?

The biggest disadvantage that a football team is the defensive backs and WRs (and your Reggie Bush sized HBs). The rest of the team stacks up very well against rugby players (or slightly better). I'll take a 6'6 325lbs lineman over a "big" rugby player any time. A 6'5 220lbs qb would be able to hang with the smaller guys no problem. The question is if the rugby guys win half the fights, and the football guys win the other half, who wins?

I remember at one point a friend of mine that played rugby was saying how "there was a job for anyone" on a Rugby team. If you were huge, there's a job. If you were tiny and fast, there was a job. Probably not quite as true at elite levels as a club team.

Fans of rugby tend to overrate the toughness of rugby players vs. football players due to pads vs. no pads, though. LOL @ the idea that football players are just pussies, thats why they need pads.

LOL @ the idea that we need some kind of paper published in a peer reviewed journal just to even speculate about this. Fact is no one really knows jack about how this might go down, and it's all harmless speculation and discussion. Lighten up.
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Old 03-08-2010, 11:58 AM   #655
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

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Crispy steak tacos have very ideal macros for someone "dieting."
I went the other day and was planning to get these because I remembered your last post about them and then broke down, got a full burrito instead, and was quite disappointed with myself.
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Old 03-08-2010, 12:12 PM   #656
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

cookie,

If you can already do 5x6 reps at the end of your workout wouldn't it make more sense adding weight?
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Old 03-08-2010, 03:19 PM   #657
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

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What are the ratios of big to small players on a rugby team? It looks like they might have the edge over a hockey team. Hockey players are crazy, though, but then again, I'd imagine most rugby players are similarly nuts. Give a slight advantage to rugby players in being better at tackling and bringing them to the ground as well. Also, what is the range on heights of most rugby players?

The biggest disadvantage that a football team is the defensive backs and WRs (and your Reggie Bush sized HBs). The rest of the team stacks up very well against rugby players (or slightly better). I'll take a 6'6 325lbs lineman over a "big" rugby player any time. A 6'5 220lbs qb would be able to hang with the smaller guys no problem. The question is if the rugby guys win half the fights, and the football guys win the other half, who wins?

I remember at one point a friend of mine that played rugby was saying how "there was a job for anyone" on a Rugby team. If you were huge, there's a job. If you were tiny and fast, there was a job. Probably not quite as true at elite levels as a club team.

Fans of rugby tend to overrate the toughness of rugby players vs. football players due to pads vs. no pads, though. LOL @ the idea that football players are just pussies, thats why they need pads.

LOL @ the idea that we need some kind of paper published in a peer reviewed journal just to even speculate about this. Fact is no one really knows jack about how this might go down, and it's all harmless speculation and discussion. Lighten up.
I started writing a response to this and it just got way out of hand (length wise) really quick, so I made a new thread.

How big are rugby players?
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Old 03-08-2010, 03:20 PM   #658
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

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cookie,

If you can already do 5x6 reps at the end of your workout wouldn't it make more sense adding weight?
THink I need 5x10+ before adding weight is necesary, since its just support work, "for fun", + 20 rep bet.
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:14 PM   #659
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

6 foot, 180lb, weak soft guy here again.

I wanna gain muscle mass. Trying to drink milk and SS to achieve this.

wrt AGOMAG, is choc milk's extra sugar gonna hurt my goals a noticeable amount?
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:21 PM   #660
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

So I wanna jump in with maybe a tabooish question. If a friend of mine, let's call him John, wanted to speed up the getting hooge process, and wanted to find some "strongman pills"... how would he go about that? Is it something that's available on the internet? he's average height and weight but wants to get jacked. Would he be making a terrible decision by trying to speed up the process?
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:29 PM   #661
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

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So I wanna jump in with maybe a tabooish question. If a friend of mine, let's call him John, wanted to speed up the getting hooge process, and wanted to find some "strongman pills"... how would he go about that? Is it something that's available on the internet? he's average height and weight but wants to get jacked. Would he be making a terrible decision by trying to speed up the process?
That depends. Are you talking about prohormones (PH) or anabolic steroids (AS)?

PH are relatively simple to get; while a lot of the good stuff is hard to find due to the recent raids, you can manage to get some of it from the usual outlets (bodybuilding.com, nutraplanet.com, etc).

AS is a bit trickier. You're typically not going to be able to order them via credit card - wire transfers via MoneyGram or Western Union is more the norm. You also have to consider your sources and the possibility you'll get fakes. Finding solid underground labs (UGLs) typically requires a good reference from a previous customer who the UGL knows is not an officer of the law. And then you need to figure out dosing and cycles for your given goals/desires, which isn't necessarily all that simple.

ETA: As for whether or not it's a "good idea," your morals are your own. I'm not going to judge "John" for using steroids to reach his goals.
 
Old 03-08-2010, 06:40 PM   #662
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

Judging John if he doesn't do really good research and is very careful seems like a good idea however.
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:49 PM   #663
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

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Originally Posted by IloveIndians View Post
6 foot, 180lb, weak soft guy here again.

I wanna gain muscle mass. Trying to drink milk and SS to achieve this.

wrt AGOMAG, is choc milk's extra sugar gonna hurt my goals a noticeable amount?
Tons of people drink chocolate milk on SS.
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:53 PM   #664
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

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Judging John if he doesn't do really good research and is very careful seems like a good idea however.
True. Contrary to popular belief, it's very hard to **** up taking AS for performance or cosmetic reasons. Only large doses of oral AS are going to give you any long-term health problems, and that usually doesn't happen to the bros who don't pay attention since their attention span tends to wane and they don't continue on with the cycles.

All the temporary health problems (testicular atrophy, hair growth, acne) go away relatively quickly after stopping use, though gynecomastia (***** tits) needs to be managed relatively well for some applications of AS.

Like anything else, if you aren't an idiot about it, AS can be very useful. Stuff's fairly expensive, though, so it's kinda silly to do for no reason.
 
Old 03-08-2010, 06:55 PM   #665
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

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Tons of people drink chocolate milk on SS.
Ok Cool. It's the only way I can stomach this much milk.
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:56 PM   #666
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

If someone wants to do it, go ahead, their life etc. I'd be concerned about getting fakes/bad stuff from online stores, but I know **** about this.
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:58 PM   #667
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

Fakes and ripoffs are pretty common. FFS, we're dealing with MG and WU here, so obv fraud exists.
 
Old 03-08-2010, 07:01 PM   #668
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

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Only large doses of oral AS are going to give you any long-term health problems
I'm not sure how much of a nerd you are, but do you know anything about the reasons behind this?
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Old 03-08-2010, 07:06 PM   #669
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

Dude seriously sometimes,





FML
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Old 03-08-2010, 07:06 PM   #670
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

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I'm not sure how much of a nerd you are, but do you know anything about the reasons behind this?
Bioavailability orally makes it hard on the liver.
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Old 03-08-2010, 07:09 PM   #671
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

A pretty big nerd, as it turns out.

The keyword to Google for more information is "17-alpha alkylated substrates." When taken orally, these compounds must pass through the GI tract (first) then the liver (second) which can cause liver toxicity given how the drugs are treated to withstand the GI tract. Most people view putting things in their mouth as putting them directly in their body; this is not really true. It's best to view the GI tract as external to the body. A good (but extreme) example is when people who take cyanide in attempt to commit suicide. Your body is pretty smart wrt things being put into the GI tract and knows that cyanide should probably not be in there, so it triggers all sorts of defense mechanisms like vomiting to get rid of the compound (interestingly enough one rare compound that circumvents this is Dinitrophenol - better known as DNP - and an interesting story that's somewhat related).

So these compounds can be toxic to the liver if taken in large and/or prolonged doses. Injectable compounds are almost always going to be safer and are typically cheaper. The downsides are obvious; injecting yourself every day (or every other day) is quite literally a pain in the ass.

For more interesting information on Dinitrophenol - and how it's used as an extreme fat loss agent - you should Google it and see the horror stories that are related with it. It's truly... amazing. Compounds like DNP and drugs like Amphetamines are way more dangerous than simple anabolic steroids.
 
Old 03-08-2010, 07:11 PM   #672
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

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Bioavailability orally makes it hard on the liver.
Oh ok, you mean you have to take huge doses orally to get enough through first-pass hepatic metabolism? makes sense.
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Old 03-08-2010, 07:14 PM   #673
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

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Oh ok, you mean you have to take huge doses orally to get enough through first-pass hepatic metabolism? makes sense.
Sort of. That was the first conclusion scientists drew. But then they figured out a better way. Here's a great article about it:

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache...&ct=clnk&gl=us

The original link redirects for some reason, but this cached link works.

If you're interested in this kind of stuff, mindandmuscle.net has awesome archives about this and other related esoteric subjects that I pored over and gained most of my knowledge from. Plus there's all this awesome drama surrounding Patrick Arnold that you get to enjoy.
 
Old 03-08-2010, 07:20 PM   #674
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

For those not interested in reading all of that, the conclusion is:

Quote:
First off, 17 alpha-alkylated steroids are hepatotoxic in high dosages taken for a long time. On the other hand, short cycles and small dosages appear to be perfectly safe. I suggest that maximum dosages should be 500mg to 900mg per day. They should be cycled for perhaps 8 weeks at a time, and if needed a 3-month break from them should be used. Using the above-mentioned techniques, your liver can be healthy for a long time. Simply put, the hysteria surrounding "hepatoxic" steroids, is based mainly on folk lore.
 
Old 03-08-2010, 07:26 PM   #675
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Re: **8*8*8 March version Two(2) ***88***8

Quote:
First off, 17 alpha-alkylated steroids are hepatotoxic in high dosages taken for a long time. On the other hand, short cycles and small dosages appear to be perfectly safe. I suggest that maximum dosages should be 500mg to 900mg per day. They should be cycled for perhaps 8 weeks at a time, and if needed a 3-month break from them should be used. Using the above-mentioned techniques, your liver can be healthy for a long time. Simply put, the hysteria surrounding "hepatoxic" steroids, is based mainly on folk lore.
Lol, based on the article I'm pretty sure that should read 500 to 900 mg per week. That's a pretty crucial typo.

Really interesting stuff, thanks for the info.
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