The "PUA" (pick up artist) approach to picking up women has gained a lot of momentum in recent years. It's a concept that is often mentioned on 2p2 but is rarely discussed in depth, as most of the other forums here are simply not conducive to that sort of thing.
The EDF is the perfect place to talk about this and any other "approaches" to picking up women. Here, the topic can get a full and intelligent debate without devolving into a shouting match. Please keep in mind the EDF rules regarding personal attacks and useless posts.
Because this thread was spawned from comments made in the general Relationship thread, I'll try to have us pick up where we left off:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArturiusX
PUA seems ironic to me, everyone who practices PUA isn't good enough to pull it off, anyone who is good enough to pull it off doesn't bother with PUA, they're just natural big players anyway.
Thus PUA stuff is just a bunch of nerds or former nerds trying to elevate themselves to the only floor on the tower of ego they haven't conquered; women. And because nerds don't understand to the fluency or dynamics of human behavior and projection, they use the 'self help book' of seduction, PUA, which might as well read "everything is a self fullfilling prophecy!", with some random real ideas to distract you from what you're actually doing (ie, a set of steps that you focus on, instead of what is actually going on).
I always thought the best PUA book is a book on sales, because all PUA's books seem to hit very universal themes, not just women, relationships in general in both business and personal life, so why not just learn sales and be better at more things?
</end stupid rant about nothing>
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms. Slick
Not true. I haven't changed my physical appearance one bit since starting PUA 26 months ago, and my success rate with women has improved tenfold. I'm not an ugly guy, but I'm also not a guy that would ever stand out of a crowd for being average. Maybe a 6, whatever that is. I've taken girls off alphas who most girls would probably rate at about a 9 in terms of physical attractiveness. At some point it gets to be like poker, or at least I imagine it. I pull the techniques without even thinking because I realize it is the most +EV, just like you execute X action at the poker table because it is the most +EV. If I sense a girl is tipsy and doesn't want things to progress further that night after meeting at a bar/club, I will occasionally leave it off that night and set up something 3-4 days later, etc, because that's what I view as the most future +EV play...
It's really a confidence thing though. It's 50/50 between PUA tricks and confidence. Most girls who are 9's don't even expect one average guy to approach them and say anything non-pussified during a 4 hour stint at a club, so when I comesup to them, tells a joke, knock the outfit they're wearing after a couple minutes-they're intrigued. They want to know more about me and they want to validate themselves in my eyes. Maybe I'll let them do this-inch by inch.
GL bro.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry17
I'm with ArturiusX on the PUA material. It basically breaks down into three catagories.
1. Stuff that is plainly obvious and which everyone who has been even moderately social knows. This part of it could be useful for someone whose only contact with the outside world was via WoW but for the average guy who has friends and goes out to social gatherings it is useless.
2. Stuff that is just horribly wrong.
3. Stuff that works but only if you are good looking in which case you don't need this information because almost anything will work for you anyway.
Ms. Slick I'd suggest against using the word Alpha. The term has been co-opted by the loser / delusional demographic and while it has a specific meaning and can be used in certain specific contexts -- when used in general conversation it generally reflects unfavourably on the person using it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms. Slick
Henry,
The PUA stuff isn't horribly wrong- rather, your claim that PUA is ineffective is horribly wrong. How else can you explain my success with women increasing tenfold since I started the program? And it wasn't just a confidence issue. I had confidence before starting the program-but I just wasn't doing something right when it comes to women. The stuff definitely works, even if you aren't good looking. Like I said, I'm average, and it works for me. I feel like guys who are criticizing it fall into a few categories:
1) Some are jealous of guys who succeed with PUA game. Maybe they tried it for a little bit of time and failed, and just gave up on it. This does not count as giving it a shot.
2) Same as 1, except maybe they've never even given it a little try, in which case they have no authority to comment on its effectiveness. They're just convinced that it either can't or won't work.
3) Some are in relationships and put women on pedestals. They may think that this stuff is degrading to women and/or just plain inappropriate.
4) Super ballers who don't need this stuff anyway. There are likely very few of you on this forum who fall into this category. I'm talking about extremely wealthy people, celebrities, etc.
Now I'd like to address a few specific points in your post:
I don't use this word in general conversation. I'm using it in the thread because it's applicable to an anecdote mentioned earlier in the thread.
Not true. I had friends and went out to many social gatherings before starting PUA, and my success now is still far greater than it ever was before. I didn't lose my virginity till I was 20 dude. 20. And even then it kinda fell into my lap. Since about a year ago, when I really started to turn a new leaf with this thing after gaining some experience, well it's just been nuts. It is definitely not common sense stuff. I'd say that about 2% of guys do this stuff naturally and 1-2% learn it like I did. The rest just don't. Playing it cool and not fawning over a chick only gets you so far with her.
I've provided anecdotes of it working. I can provide more if you wish. Care to provide some that it doesn't when used correctly? Yeah, I get rejected about 25% of the time. But I brush it off and move on to the next girl.
This is a contradictory statement. Do you see why? If you claim that you're good looking and don't need PUA, then how can you claim it's working for that person? It would be extraneous in that case. I agree that if someone is very, very good looking, and has a decent personality, that PUA will be less effective for them than for the typical Joe. That isn't to say that it won't be effective, it's just that you won't see such a sheer increase in results with it as you would if you were an average guy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms. Slick
Henry, my apologies. I made significant additions to my previous post in this thread a couple of minutes ago, and judging by the timestamp on your last post, you haven't seen them yet. If you could re-read it and address those points I would be most appreciative.
In the meantime, I'll give you an example of a few changes I've made:
1) I approach hot women now. Not just cute, but hot. Maybe not Ms. Oot hot, but definite 8's and 9's at the club. I don't act intimidated by them and I feel comfortable transitioning into my PUA game and using negs as well as mixed compliments. Occasionally I'll throw in a simple compliment as well. I've been using the palm reading stuff for a bit of time but I only use that maybe 1 in 5 times, and only if I can get a girl at a tablein a club or something like that.
2) I used to buy drinks for girls. Now I don't. And almost every guy I know does this. All my friends do. I don't tell them not to because I'm not interested in turning my friends into PUA and getting into arguments and stuff, I just don't do it anymore. If I'm chatting up a hot girl and she asks me to buy her a drink, I ask her to buy me one and then I'll get her on the next round. This works approx 60% of the time. I am usually out at least every other weekend sarging with a couple of friends, although they don't know that's what I'm doing. I mean they know that I'm picking up girls or attempting to, but they don't see the rhyme or reason behind it. I used to do the whole "ask her to buy me one deal" as validation, but I stopped using it a few months ago, because I realize that it has become stale. I try to adjust my technique at least once every couple of months to stay current.
3) I read Cosmo occasionally and remember things from it such as "20 things to do to please a guy you're dating or whatever", and sometimes when a girl does one of those things if we're hanging out a second or third time, I'll tell her in a semi-serious voice that I guess I thought she was more unique than she actually is. Wink. You may think this stuff is garbage and ineffective. I assure you, it isn't. This is just a specific example.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry17
I didn't say it was all completely wrong -- I broke it down into three catagories. Some of it is helpful but I feel that those elements are just plainly obvious. They will not help the generally social guy who is just not doing well with women. It is possible that you were missing some of the plainly obvious stuff and so the PUA stuff did help you. It could just be a coincidence. It could be a lot of things.
Why don't you give us an example of a few changes you made that you feel are responsible for your new success.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms. Slick
Henry, my apologies. I made significant additions to my previous post in this thread a couple of minutes ago, and judging by the timestamp on your last post, you haven't seen them yet. If you could re-read it and address those points I would be most appreciative.
In the meantime, I'll give you an example of a few changes I've made:
1) I approach hot women now. Not just cute, but hot. Maybe not Ms. Oot hot, but definite 8's and 9's at the club. I don't act intimidated by them and I feel comfortable transitioning into my PUA game and using negs as well as mixed compliments. Occasionally I'll throw in a simple compliment as well. I've been using the palm reading stuff for a bit of time but I only use that maybe 1 in 5 times, and only if I can get a girl at a tablein a club or something like that.
2) I used to buy drinks for girls. Now I don't. And almost every guy I know does this. All my friends do. I don't tell them not to because I'm not interested in turning my friends into PUA and getting into arguments and stuff, I just don't do it anymore. If I'm chatting up a hot girl and she asks me to buy her a drink, I ask her to buy me one and then I'll get her on the next round. This works approx 60% of the time. I am usually out at least every other weekend sarging with a couple of friends, although they don't know that's what I'm doing. I mean they know that I'm picking up girls or attempting to, but they don't see the rhyme or reason behind it. I used to do the whole "ask her to buy me one deal" as validation, but I stopped using it a few months ago, because I realize that it has become stale. I try to adjust my technique at least once every couple of months to stay current.
3) I read Cosmo occasionally and remember things from it such as "20 things to do to please a guy you're dating or whatever", and sometimes when a girl does one of those things if we're hanging out a second or third time, I'll tell her in a semi-serious voice that I guess I thought she was more unique than she actually is. Wink. You may think this stuff is garbage and ineffective. I assure you, it isn't. This is just a specific example.
Last edited by TIEdup14; 02-03-2009 at 12:34 PM.
