I'm not a foodie, but from my limited experience I've found LA food to be way underrated and SF food overrated. I'm not talking the ultra-high end or famous places in either city, but everything else ranging from street food to moderately high priced restaurants. Although I have been to a few of the high end places in SF and not been too impressed (Mooses comes to mind).

I think a lot of SF places get by on location, tradition, and reputation. Since SF real estate is so precious it's tough to open a new place and it's often a lot harder for patrons to go 6 extra blocks on foot for better food. Whereas in LA everyone is in their car, it's a lot easier to open a new place, and there's just a ton more places to choose from. So LA places (that aren't the ultra-trendy celeb spot of the moment) really have to make it on food alone.

Huh - I've never heard that before... if you include the greater LA area, it's at the very least well known for really good Asian (specifically Chinese in SGV, Korean in K-Town, Japanese). And as evidenced by the thread responses, I'd say LA is very much a food city.

Having lived in both cities also I'd agree. But I hear this most wrt fine dining / higher-end spots, not overall as much.

Suzzer, you kind of allude to this - but I think it's not a fair comparison as SF is tiny and LA is sprawling and enormous with way more selection / variety. Bay Area vs. LA is probably fairer - even then I think LA probably has better food (especially in the cheaper range) but it's really close.

-Al

I work in entertainment as do alot of my friends - so this is a driver of social stuff for me (e.g. parties, premieres, events etc.). This is probably true for many people in LA.

But the answer to your question is really: I do stuff with my friends that I'd do in any other city, except in LA there are a ridiculous amount of options and it helps the weather is always perfect. Of course just boils down to personal preference (I norebang all the time, but I mean yeah that's not everyone's cup of tea), but here are some broad categories of stuff that LA has to offer:

1. Concerts - LA of course gets every band rolling through and performing, and there are some great venues. The Hollywood Bowl is one of the best venues for a concert in the country imo, with the Greek not too far behind. Walt Disney Concert Hall is amazing also.

2. Cultural Stuff - I think it's pretty laughable when people are derisive about LA's lack of "culture". The city hosts several premier museums (the Getty is probably my 2nd favorite museum to the Bilbao), LA Phil is just ridiculously good, and there's a thriving local art scene (check out Artwalk at the Brewery Lofts downtown), with a major emphasis on design and architecture. Also, obviously, strong theater scene.

3. Hiking / Parks / Beach - pretty self explanatory, I hike in the Palisades there are some great trails there. I live right by Griffith Park (the Observatory is great btw, really worth a trip go at night) and also think Lacey Park in Pasadena and Will Rogers are nice spots for picnics. And I like all the Malibu beaches but tend to go to Zuma.

In general, my guess is LA is one of the few cities in the US that truly has "something for everyone". I'd say the same is true in NYC (well, I guess minus the outdoorsy stuff) and to a lesser extent SF / Bay Area, but can't speak to anywhere else as I haven't lived there.

-Al

Runyon Canyon is off leash for the most part although it has some onleash areas. Its a bit crowded at times but pretty much the only place that fits your description that isn't too far outside of the city.

I live pretty close by and take our dogs 4-5x a week and its always a good time, great views and friendly people.

what are the best clubs in LA?

If you go up lake in altadena to the foothills there are a bunch of chill hiking trails around. From what I remember people let their dogs off of the lease all the time. Eaton canyon is one in particular that would fit your needs and is east of lake ave.

Yeah, I just think it's kind of ironic though because in general SF looks at LA as a giant, plastic, phony, coke-fueled, cultural wasteland (they're right of course, but still). One area I guarantee they think they're vastly culturally superior in is food. But I don't think SF is superior at all.

The whole SF/LA rivalry is pretty funny. SF hates LA. LA is like "huh?". It seriously took me about 4 months of living in LA to realize the people were generally cool and weren't going to all of a sudden turn evil on me.

I decided then that all city-stereotypes are stupid. Every place has about the same ratio of cool people, idiots, flakes, people you can count on, etc. Although you can make some stereotypes about mostly transient cities like NY/SF/LA vs. cities like Kansas City, where almost everyone if from there and never left, or left and came back.

LA people, the last time I was home I went to bar in Silverlake that was in an old firehouse, had both a front and back patio, but can't for the life of me remember exactly where it was or the name of it. Any ideas?

Went to LA last weekend.

LA is a shithole. I would never want to live there.

Things to do: meet rappers and one awful singer, very fun, they like to party.

Places to go: Dodger stadium, watch the Giants win 11-2, heckle fans, talk [censored], get the whole section to hate you. Great time.

Things not to do: live there

I'd rather people not post in this thread if they hate LA. Start an "I Hate LA" thread in BBV or something.

Oh yeah I forgot. SD hates LA too. And NYC. And Santa Barbara. And Seattle. And Portland.

But Vegas likes us I think. Not sure what Phoenix thinks.

My aunt in KC thinks LA is fun to visit but she wouldn't want to live there. Take that FWIW.

Ja - out of curiosity, how much time have you spent in LA? I'm assuming you must be pretty familiar with the city to hate it so much.

Suzz - yeah LA is not for everyone. It actually took me a couple years to really like it - the main issue was having to drive everywhere (always lived in walking cities before LA), took some adjusting.

-Al

The whole key to LA is to not have your work too far from where you live. Seriously, that's the big one.

Suzz - so true - I have a 15 minute door-to-door commute (Los Feliz to Burbank) and that is huge.

If I was driving 1.5 hours each way in rush hour traffic I'd def want to shoot myself.

-Al

cf. that thread where we took "Pictures Of [Our] Commute" and mine was a photographic walking tour of West Hollywood. Ship it?

<--- owned

-Al

This is a brilliant point that cannot be overstated.

LA is a rough city to adjust to. The physical size is overwhelming, and newcomers to the city tend to stick to nearby neighborhoods...and likely miss out on most of what the city has to offer. The trick is to find your scene, whatever that scene may be, get within range, and then enjoy. Los Angeles truly has EVERYTHING to offer, but it absolutely is not going to find you. You need to make the effort, for better or for worse.

And BTW, when it comes to food, NYC, LA, and SF are the only (American) cities that matter. You can make an argument for any particular permutation, but in my experience, nowhere else comes close.

Edendale Grill. It's on Rowena near Silverlake Blvd. Good bar, good but overpriced food. Was a nightmare when it first opened, but they got their [censored] together. If I was feeling hearty I could walk there.

I don't want to derail, but it’s the overall LA food culture that has a bad rep compared with SF or NY, at least among the foodies and chefs I knew. And it’s well deserved. Sure, some of the top restaurants here can compete with great ones in the other cities (Ortolan and Providence come to mind), but that’s not the point. I’ll try to explain…

When I lived in the mission in SF and went to culinary school, I was a short walk to 3 fish markets, 4 or 5 butchers, and at least a dozen groceries or produce stands that sold really high quality produce (often organic and always seasonal). I was also a short walk from an unbelievable cheese store that carried illegal but amazing imported cheese; several excellent and independent wine stores; two bakeries, each of which made breads and desserts better than pretty much anything you could get anywhere in the entire LA basin; and an Italian import store with homemade pastas and imported cured meats and cheeses. Even the local Ralph’s carried really high quality bread like ACME and excellent produce.

Every neighborhood in SF seemed to have the same concentration of retail food choices. Every one of these local joints had stuff at a far quality than even food stores in LA you have to spend all day in a car to get to.

In addition, the big, destination food meccas in the Bay Area have no equivalent in LA. None. Places like Berkeley Bowl or the Ferry Plaza just don’t exist here.

Even the chain grocery stores were stocked with better quality stuff than here in LA. I mentioned Ralph’s. Whole Foods was the same story.

It’s kind of a critical mass issue. There are a few places in LA that by themselves would be similar to what you could get in SF or NY. But they are few, and very, very far between. If I am cooking for friends in LA, it is pretty much an all day ordeal to shop for the right ingredients. And at the end of the day, I’m still annoyed because there was something I couldn’t get. In SF, you could find top quality stuff all around you. For example, the only places in all of LA that I have found so far that have a decent fishmonger are Fish King in Glendale and Santa Monica Seafood. You can also get good quality, but prepackaged, fish at some of the Japanese markets. That’s it. That’s the list. In SF, you could find super-fresh fish in dozens of places….you were never more than a 5 minute drive from it. The same is true for pretty much any category of food.

I think it has to do with the fact that people here aren’t knowledgeable about food. In SF, it’s a big part of the culture. There seemed to be far more people interested in cooking and dinner parties in SF than here. People in LA just don’t care or know much about food, IMO. They wouldn’t know that a menu at a restaurant should change every month to keep up with the seasons. They even like the coffee at Coffee Bean and Tea Leaf for crying out loud.

There are even a small number of areas where LA food is superior to SF’s. Sushi is the big one for me; I would assume Korean food is another. But overall, it’s really no contest. And that’s not because I’m a hater. I grew up on the East Coast and have lived in SF and LA for the same number of years. There’s no bias. I just don’t think anyone can objectively say LA isn’t inferior when it comes to food.

I guess it might have a "bad reputation" for food among SF foodies, but that seems to be about it... Aside from everyone from New York of course

Yeah, way to ignore everything I said.

I read everything you had to say, and it was, for the most part, a detailed explanation of how hard it is to find ingredients in Los Angeles, the overarching theme of which was that food in Los Angeles is objectively inferior to that in San Francisco. That's not reputation. Just because a city has lesser quality food than San Francisco or a reputation lesser than San Francisco doesn't mean it has a "bad reputation" for food, which is what you said in the first place. San Francisco is an incredible city for food, and a city with lesser cuisine can certainly still have a good reputation for food. Unless, of course, the people judging are San Francisco chefs and snobs.

Whoa, I just remembered one of the best things to do in LA and nobody has mentioned it yet. Get a group together and go see Bill Maher's show live. I've done it twice and it was a lot of fun both times. The tickets are FREE.

Jesus H. Has anyone other than LFS been east of Fairfax? The fact that no one's mentioned Zankou Chicken yet is a disgrace. The Brite Spot for breakfast. Also, I'd recommend The Gold Room, The Little Joy and Footsie's for East LA drinking. Also, also Jumbo's Clown Room for possibly transexual titties.

And 39 Shatto Lanes for bowling. Man, this is actually making me miss LA a little.

I always thought that place kinda sucked. The Red Lion is fun, though. Oh, and Blair's. Go to Blair's--best food in LA, I think.