JWhitt,

1) The level of influence your friends have on your dating decisions is super ****ing weird.

2) Just pretend like you had drinks w/ her from 10p-midnight last night and made out a bit, then you both left cuz you had someplace you needed to be. Do whatever you would do next after that.

3) When a girl meets up at 2am at a bar, it's because she is planning to **** you. While you might have done something stupid in the course of that conversation, the most likely thing imo is simply that you forced her to make an explicit response to a question that basically said "HEY THIS IS THE SECOND TIME YOU MET ME, DO YOU WANT TO NOW COME OVER AND LET ME **** YOU?" after she already implicitly agreed to that by meeting you at 2am for drinks. Next time you're in this situation, just walk and talk headed towards your place, and she'll magically walk along with you and then magically just come up to your place. Don't make her feel like a slut.

El Diablo,

Is there any way to rectify this situation with this girl? I guess it's treat it like the 10p-midnight example. In that case I'd talk to her when my schedule is better known for the following weekend since I'm busy during the week and I know she has an exam.

It's going to be hard to get over last night though.

I would think I did something drastically wrong last night for her not to come over. I just don't know what it was. I wasn't on the top of my game, as I mentioned, but if the girl was going out of her way to meet me wouldn't she have already made up her mind that she wanted to have sex with me? I mean I didn't do anything too bad. We still made out a bit and had fun, flirty conversation. It just wasn't at the level it was Wednesday, which drove her to meet me.

I guess she was expecting the me from Wednesday and I sure didn't provide that.

The worst thing I did was the way I worded and handled things near the end of the night regarding sleeping over.

el diablo is exactly right, as usual. if you think the "just walk towards your place" thing seems difficult there's a million things that are better to say than "HEY STAY OVER AT MY PLACE TONIGHT". like "lets go to my place for a drink", for example. or even "hey this place is dead, let's get outta here!". if she is into you she will NOT turn that down. and it sounds like she was into you until you told her you wanted her to sleep in your bed and made it weird. i mean what's a normal, mostly sober girl supposed to say to your proposal on a second date? "okay, i'll sleep in your bed tonight! hihihihi"

el diablo told you what it was. if she's into you, that's 100% the reason you couldn't get her back to your place.

Yeah you guys are right. This also doesn't seem like a situation where I can be forgiven. Probably on to the next one. When they say this stuff is intricate it actually is. Because I displayed some great things with this girl and my stupidity with how I handled the end of the night last night immediately ****ed me probably permanently.

I have trouble following you sometimes. Probably my fault. Can you re-phrase or re-word this because I don't follow. Sorry.

He means you asked her to stay over at your place which implies sex and only a 2nd date may make her feel slutty. Girls don't actually mind being slutty, they just don't want to feel slutty or have to verbally accept your proposal to sex that early on into dating. Even after 3+ dates there is really no need to specify the reasoning behind why she is coming back to your place...its understood by both people and shouldn't be discussed for reasons seen by your results last night.

So, Lucid, would you think this is such a large error that it has doomed me from ever having sex with her?

Do you think the way I worded it actually changed her decision making?

Because I'm personally leaning towards her wanting to have sex throughout the night but something going wrong at the bar where she wasn't feeling it. And that we are making too much of an issue over the "do you want to come over to my place/sleep over" thing.

I could be wrong obviously.

I never said your completely doomed from ever having sex with her...you're the one that keeps saying that in all your posts. I just think you hurt your chances quite a bit.

What you did wrong was probably close to 100% asking her to spend the night at your place. By meeting up with you at 2am she essentially agreed to have sex with you. You then basically asked for verbal confirmation that this was her intention at which point you made her feel slutty and she changed her plans not necessarily because she didn't want to have sex with you anymore...but because she didn't want to feel like a slut or have you think she was. If she comes back to your place for a drink however she can just have sex with you and tomorrow tell you she doesn't normally do that, "but I was really drunk". You didn't allow her to justify being slutty in a way she could live with so she didn't sleep with you.

Any other outside factors were likely of almost no relevance as she had already decided to sleep with you when she agreed to meet you at 2am.

JW,

I think I'm repeating myself, but I really don't think anything permanent has been changed here with this girl.

Regarding your earlier question, I'm guessing you're saying she has a Friday night-class exam? Depending on the hour that means she's available, it doesn't change much. Instead of doing a 3 course meal, do something light, and near your place. Also saves you from spending $100/head on dinner/drinks for a "date."

While I agree she didn't sleep with you the other night because of a combo of passage of time between ~2:15 and ~3:30 when you tried to steer the party to your place, and because of your poor form in the invitation, I think that's why she didn't sleep with you that night, not why she'll never sleep with you.

Personally, if I were you, I'd have no problem inviting her out to the party on Saturday, but I'd keep a tight leash on my drinking if I did, and be prepared to leave before 2AM.

...

Women's approach to sex does not work the same as mens. "Rationally" speaking, this would be presented as "You want to have sex, I want to have sex". Then you would say "Let's have sex" (essentially what you did). Doesn't work this way.

For women to have sex it will often need to be spontaneous, particularly in a situation such as a second date where sleeping with you will make her feel "slutty". Women will put themselves in situations that will allow you to have sex with them as long as it's something that just... happened. Then they can blame the fact that they had sex on outside influences- As LucidDream pointed out. Oh... that was a one off... Oh... I was drunk... Oh... we were just going to watch a movie and you know it just happened... Oh... blah blah blah infinite list of bull**** reasons.

Just carry on as if it never happened. To me it looks like you're trying to protect yourself from further rejection. This is a verrrry bad attitude.

Citanul,

When you propose the party on Saturday would you still mention something about the other night, as you said in your earlier post. I feel like I should. I also feel like this text to her is pretty important if she will ever meet up with me again.

I don't know, my reads with girls are pretty sharp. I just feel like the way we ended things last night (her not coming back) is a HUGE sign to me. We were within a block of my place and she CHOSE to go back to her place (a 10 minute cab ride). Situations like that don't align often.

That's why I'm going to personally act like it never happened with her when I contact her but I'm not going to be the least bit surprised when she doesn't want to hang out again.

JW,

The craziest part of this whole thing to me is how you seem much more concerned about what your friends think than anything else.

Yes, but a single mention in a text is really as far as I'd go. She already knows you screwed up. She likes you, she just wants to know that a) you know you screwed up b) you like her. You don't need to have a conversation about it, or anything like that.

JWhitt -

you did fine, she'll probably text you soon. Referencing whatever you think you did 'wrong' on Saturday is pretty much the worst thing you can do. I mean, whats the upside?

Hopefully, man. I'm trying to think positive and I won't mention it. Diablo's point #2 above regarding 10pm-midnight was really good advice, I think.

I really don't think you screwed up so badly that you don't have a chance anymore.

It seems like you prioritize partying with friends over spending time with her, multitasking with these don't seem to be working out, but I guess if that's what you normally do, then there isn't a point in stopping for her and being fake. It seems like she could feel like you don't actually care much, she was your bottom priority then you forgot what she does. You make it seem like you only care about sex, but maybe that is a correct assumption?

Now I'm unsure as to your goals in dating, maybe I was off to assume it was to begin a relationship.


Oh, and I really hate sleeping with my contacts in and I would definitely decline going to a guys house for any of those reasons without that meaning anything.

You think into every little detail a bit too much imo

Well let's be clear here. She texted me Saturday evening seeing if I was going out. All day Saturday I planned to go to my friend's birthday party. As mentioned he's a close friend and I needed to and wanted to go to that birthday. It was something planned for weeks and I should have been there to hang out with him. I wasn't planning on hanging out with her again until next week as I was placing my friend's birthday ahead of her since I just met her and we had hung out on Wednesday (few days ago).

I don't think I did anything wrong there. I wasn't going to just re-arrange my night around her. If there was no bday party and it was a normal night out, then yeah, maybe.

My goal is to find a relationship, yes.

Please disregard the work thing. It's too technical to explain but I didn't forget what she did. I misinterpreted her residency program. It's so minute that I should have never typed it out and it's literally a non-issue in the whole scheme of things.

My plans sort of changed and I can go out for drinks, etc. on Friday with this girl if she's up for it. Given what I've explained is it too desperate to text her setting something up for Friday? I don't want to appear too interested.

Or would I be better off going the Saturday party route?

Not that huge of a deal but I'd be up for advice on what you think is the overall better play.

Neither of us can do this week, I know due to being busy.

wholy cow you really think about every little detail. Stop being so negative about the few negatives you got from her that night. You got such huge positives I don't even understand how you're focusing on them so much. She (1) met up with you at 2 am at another night club alone which is insanely positive (2) was flirty the majority of the time (3) made out with you.

True, I'm just so fearful that the end of the night overshadowed those things. Girls are not forgiving nor rational, from experience. She could have found the end of the night uncomfortable (which she likely did) and just not have any interest in me anymore because of it.

If that's really your experience, then you really need to up your sweetness. Women are really, really forgiving with men to whom they're attracted and if they're irrational, it's because they err heavily on the side of overlooking otherwise unacceptable behavior from men to whom they're attracted.

If you're one (or five) slip-ups away from women not speaking to you again, you're doing something way, way worse than the social faux pas that lead you here.

Again, lol at your misogynism, but especially lol that it's exactly the opposite of the stereotype you should have as a guy in his mid-20s. Most social, urban guys your age tend to think they can get away with murder based on their experiences.

The supposed misognyism comes from being too nice about 2 years ago so I swung more to the other side. My experience is that females can drop interest level on a dime over one silly thing like what happened with me on Saturday night. Now you can define it as stronger than silly but it's still one minor to somewhat major negative amongst a lot of positive signs.

Still I've heard of similar things through friends where things are seemingly going well and then there is one incident and the girl doesn't give him a chance.

I was just told this story from a friend. He met this girl through mutual friends, then went out on a date, went well. No kissing but still went flirty, etc. They meet up a week later and the date is going well, this time they make out. They end up meeting friends (her's) at a local bar. In the meantime they are talking. My friend goes to the bathroom and this guy relentlessly starts hitting on the girl he's taken out. My friend steps in after a while and tells the guy to knock it off, she's not interested. At this point the guy (who's apparently wasted) gets in his face and shoves him. The girl scurries away at this point. Things calm down but in the meantime the girl and her friends took off, afraid of what was going to go down. My friend sent her an apology for the incident (which was in no way his fault and I fail to see what went wrong) but she didn't respond to his text nor his follow up 2 days later.

So, seemingly well, and turn of a dime it goes from interested to not interested on something out of his control.

How was this girl rational? I have countless other stories I can type in here that I've been told. The way these girls treat guys and the perfect games they have to throw are hilarious at times.

I'm not saying you're making up your experience, I'm saying that your experience is typical of a guy who women don't really like that much. I imagine that experience is typical for a simple majority of men (potentially including a lot of your friends).

But, um, it's not that hard for that not to be your experience.. especially if you're in your mid 20s in a place like New York.