I'm also very interested in what Henry has planned for Valentines Day.

Poguemahone is a girl, and we all know what that means when it comes to romantic advice.

Tiedup, Ms.Slick advice is not necessarily bad imho, I see where he is coming from (PUA-land, province of C&F), but of course you should tailor it to your specific type of relation/personality.

Or, in insider terms, calibration. Lol.

If you are a joker all the time (like me), I agree with you that showing a tiny bit of seriousness can bring your relationship to a whole new level.

I actually kinda like what he had to say, he is spot on about the not going overboard with the whole thing, so that is why I related the 3 months to the flowers/card as being just fine.

But humor in writing....hmmmm....I have my doubts about that to be honest. It is so easy to come off in a way you never intended, and C&F in writing, well, you'd better be damn sure you will be understood by the receiving side.

I suppose you're right, I just think that theres a huge difference between "not going overboard" and "going out of your way to pretend to show that you dont care."

Meh, I guess the whole PUA thing to me reeks of a certain "fakeness." But that is a discussion for a completely different thread and I by no means wish to derail this one.

LOL! +1

Edit: Meh, I'm really coming off as more of an ass against Ms. Slick than I mean to. My apologies. I should also probably mention that there are mitigating circumstances which make flowers the expert play in my particular spot. Anyway, I didnt really mean to get bogged down in my situation, I really only mentioned it to try to get the ball rolling on the Valentine's day discussion in general for this thread.

Yeah just depends on your relationship.

Sounds like you really like her.

Thanks, I really do.

I hope you didnt get the wrong impression from the above comments, you just have to understand that from our point of view what you suggested sounds more like it came out of a romance novel than reality!

Add in a few years of "nice guys finish last-ism" and the result is a bit of resentment toward women on this forum

You did have some good ideas though, for someone whose relationship has been going for little bit longer period of time than mine.

I'm up late and decided to start reading this thread again...I'll probably regret this later. Alamo seems to know what he's talking about though and he doesn't come off like a douche, so I do enjoy his posts. I mean, he used the word calibration so he must be special

As for vday...hyachahca. I'm rapidly knocking out the first dates with a bunch of girls this week so that I'll have some easy options come the 14th.

Earlier this month a buddy of mine started casually seeing one of my roomates friends. After about 2 weeks it was his birthday. They weren't even officially exclusive or anything and she bought him a $200 present. I clearly should've went after her. I don't even wanna think about how serious they're going to take vday.

Congrats on the dates Traz-- what do you mean by easy options on the 14th though? Sex?

Any TRs or spot checks in regard to the dates?

Yeah I've just been through a lot of different stuff. I can be cheesy as hell but if you are really super into someone it's just freaking awesome making them feel good. And when a girl is really into you she never forgets that stuff ever. Better to wear your heart on your sleeve if the feelings are there. Seen lotsa good relationships end because of fear.

I like it when people understand me straightaway, lol.

Agreed, but...even though I am not the full-fledged PUA I once aspired to be, since in this little voyage of mine, I have come to understand it is all within yourself, and I am a believer of the core principles of PUA.

As with nearly all things, it all depends on motivation.

The other day I was talking to this girl that read an article about guys that tried to better themselves with women, and she called those men 'pathetic'.

I countered by saying that I respect people that see the need for change in their life and work to achieve this change.

That made her look in the distance, and ponder a bit. We kissed the same night.

Some irony here , right?

My point is, as always, until people fully understand the core principles of being a man, the zen of PUA if you please, they will not be able to criticize any of it.

But maybe it is arrogance on my part that leads me to believe I *do*understand what a man is all about.

What MsSLick describes is, again imho, stuff for people who are reasonably new at the PUA stuff. Nothing wrong with that, but when you are at that level, and enjoying a fair amount of success, it is sometimes hard to remember the journey does not end there.

I discovered the whole thing in 2001 or so, and ever since have been trying to better myself, all the rest falls into place after that. And then something goes wrong, as nobody is immune to disappointments and failure.
My life actually resembles life....

It is perfectly well possible to be a decent, stand-up, nice person that is good with women.

Ah well, philosophical musings. I agree, this for another thread.

Sorry for the hi-jack.

Rereading the above message, it is apparent to me I should not try to get some deals done and write on a public message board at the same time.

I missed a whole shebang of elaborating, and misused words. Urgh, my apologies.

PUA seems ironic to me, everyone who practices PUA isn't good enough to pull it off, anyone who is good enough to pull it off doesn't bother with PUA, they're just natural big players anyway.

Thus PUA stuff is just a bunch of nerds or former nerds trying to elevate themselves to the only floor on the tower of ego they haven't conquered; women. And because nerds don't understand to the fluency or dynamics of human behavior and projection, they use the 'self help book' of seduction, PUA, which might as well read "everything is a self fullfilling prophecy!", with some random real ideas to distract you from what you're actually doing (ie, a set of steps that you focus on, instead of what is actually going on).

I always thought the best PUA book is a book on sales, because all PUA's books seem to hit very universal themes, not just women, relationships in general in both business and personal life, so why not just learn sales and be better at more things?

</end stupid rant about nothing>

No worries, bro.

Quick tempers aren't appealing to anyone, really, ladies included, so I definitely don't have one. You're entitled to your opinion. I just know that my approach works. And it's not uniquely mine, obviously. I've customized it a bit for myself but it is a hybrid of a few PUA approaches. It works for relationships as well as just one night stands. I'm 23 y/o and have an 80% success rate at getting numbers in clubs and at least 60% of the time that I open a girl at a club, I'm at least making out with her by the end of the night. Many times a lot more. And before I changed my approach, I could barely throw game at moderately cute girls. Last week though, I opened a 9, and she was in my bed at the end of the night. I'm not trying to sell you anything, dude. It's actually -EV for me if every guy knew how to do this. Plenty of FREE info and forums out there about this stuff, just google.

Good luck with your girl.

And just to clarify, I'm not saying to deliberately play hard to get, just don't act differently toward her because it's Valentine's Day and you've been going out for 3 months. There's a difference between being mean and uncaring and being cool.

P.

Not true. I haven't changed my physical appearance one bit since starting PUA 26 months ago, and my success rate with women has improved tenfold. I'm not an ugly guy, but I'm also not a guy that would ever stand out of a crowd for being average. Maybe a 6, whatever that is. I've taken girls off alphas who most girls would probably rate at about a 9 in terms of physical attractiveness. At some point it gets to be like poker, or at least I imagine it. I pull the techniques without even thinking because I realize it is the most +EV, just like you execute X action at the poker table because it is the most +EV. If I sense a girl is tipsy and doesn't want things to progress further that night after meeting at a bar/club, I will occasionally leave it off that night and set up something 3-4 days later, etc, because that's what I view as the most future +EV play...

It's really a confidence thing though. It's 50/50 between PUA tricks and confidence. Most girls who are 9's don't even expect one average guy to approach them and say anything non-pussified during a 4 hour stint at a club, so when I comesup to them, tells a joke, knock the outfit they're wearing after a couple minutes-they're intrigued. They want to know more about me and they want to validate themselves in my eyes. Maybe I'll let them do this-inch by inch.

GL bro.

Everyone has to start somewhere. After 6 months of solid practice a vast improvement will be seen. Afte 3, even.

And just because the guy is in a relationship with a girl doesn't mean the ideas are ineffective and/or a bad idea. I'm pretty sure you don't believe this, but just clarifying anyway. I know guys who have been in relationships for 2-3 years and still pull C&F on a regular basis. Their women would never dream of cheating on them, for example, because they have everything they could possibly want.

I'm with ArturiusX on the PUA material. It basically breaks down into three catagories.

1. Stuff that is plainly obvious and which everyone who has been even moderately social knows. This part of it could be useful for someone whose only contact with the outside world was via WoW but for the average guy who has friends and goes out to social gatherings it is useless.

2. Stuff that is just horribly wrong.

3. Stuff that works but only if you are good looking in which case you don't need this information because almost anything will work for you anyway.

Ms. Slick I'd suggest against using the word Alpha. The term has been co-opted by the loser / delusional demographic and while it has a specific meaning and can be used in certain specific contexts -- when used in general conversation it generally reflects unfavourably on the person using it.

Henry,

The PUA stuff isn't horribly wrong- rather, your claim that PUA is ineffective is horribly wrong. How else can you explain my success with women increasing tenfold since I started the program? And it wasn't just a confidence issue. I had confidence before starting the program-but I just wasn't doing something right when it comes to women. The stuff definitely works, even if you aren't good looking. Like I said, I'm average, and it works for me. I feel like guys who are criticizing it fall into a few categories:

1) Some are jealous of guys who succeed with PUA game. Maybe they tried it for a little bit of time and failed, and just gave up on it. This does not count as giving it a shot.

2) Same as 1, except maybe they've never even given it a little try, in which case they have no authority to comment on its effectiveness. They're just convinced that it either can't or won't work.

3) Some are in relationships and put women on pedestals. They may think that this stuff is degrading to women and/or just plain inappropriate.

4) Super ballers who don't need this stuff anyway. There are likely very few of you on this forum who fall into this category. I'm talking about extremely wealthy people, celebrities, etc.

Now I'd like to address a few specific points in your post:

I don't use this word in general conversation. I'm using it in the thread because it's applicable to an anecdote mentioned earlier in the thread.

Not true. I had friends and went out to many social gatherings before starting PUA, and my success now is still far greater than it ever was before. I didn't lose my virginity till I was 20 dude. 20. And even then it kinda fell into my lap. Since about a year ago, when I really started to turn a new leaf with this thing after gaining some experience, well it's just been nuts. It is definitely not common sense stuff. I'd say that about 2% of guys do this stuff naturally and 1-2% learn it like I did. The rest just don't. Playing it cool and not fawning over a chick only gets you so far with her.

I've provided anecdotes of it working. I can provide more if you wish. Care to provide some that it doesn't when used correctly? Yeah, I get rejected about 25% of the time. But I brush it off and move on to the next girl.

This is a contradictory statement. Do you see why? If you claim that you're good looking and don't need PUA, then how can you claim it's working for that person? It would be extraneous in that case. I agree that if someone is very, very good looking, and has a decent personality, that PUA will be less effective for them than for the typical Joe. That isn't to say that it won't be effective, it's just that you won't see such a sheer increase in results with it as you would if you were an average guy.

Oh very much so...it was not meant as criticism, my point was that most dudes do not look beyond the easy lay. And I can't blame them, because kids/candystore.

But the ease of picking up becomes an end in itself, while I am referring more to the inner game issues. Think about it, you become very good with girls, and that to a lot of guys serves as a band-aid for other, deeper issues that they have.
Inner game is what I am getting at, you must know the term.

Very enthousiastic, but...there is always always always somebody out there that is just a bit cooler, just a bit funnier, just a bit more capable.

Anyway, we are totally derailing this thread, and I do not want that. Let's discuss this in a new thread, I would like to react on ArturiusX.

I didn't say it was all completely wrong -- I broke it down into three catagories. Some of it is helpful but I feel that those elements are just plainly obvious. They will not help the generally social guy who is just not doing well with women. It is possible that you were missing some of the plainly obvious stuff and so the PUA stuff did help you. It could just be a coincidence. It could be a lot of things.

Why don't you give us an example of a few changes you made that you feel are responsible for your new success.

Henry, my apologies. I made significant additions to my previous post in this thread a couple of minutes ago, and judging by the timestamp on your last post, you haven't seen them yet. If you could re-read it and address those points I would be most appreciative.

In the meantime, I'll give you an example of a few changes I've made:

1) I approach hot women now. Not just cute, but hot. Maybe not Ms. Oot hot, but definite 8's and 9's at the club. I don't act intimidated by them and I feel comfortable transitioning into my PUA game and using negs as well as mixed compliments. Occasionally I'll throw in a simple compliment as well. I've been using the palm reading stuff for a bit of time but I only use that maybe 1 in 5 times, and only if I can get a girl at a tablein a club or something like that.

2) I used to buy drinks for girls. Now I don't. And almost every guy I know does this. All my friends do. I don't tell them not to because I'm not interested in turning my friends into PUA and getting into arguments and stuff, I just don't do it anymore. If I'm chatting up a hot girl and she asks me to buy her a drink, I ask her to buy me one and then I'll get her on the next round. This works approx 60% of the time. I am usually out at least every other weekend sarging with a couple of friends, although they don't know that's what I'm doing. I mean they know that I'm picking up girls or attempting to, but they don't see the rhyme or reason behind it. I used to do the whole "ask her to buy me one deal" as validation, but I stopped using it a few months ago, because I realize that it has become stale. I try to adjust my technique at least once every couple of months to stay current.

3) I read Cosmo occasionally and remember things from it such as "20 things to do to please a guy you're dating or whatever", and sometimes when a girl does one of those things if we're hanging out a second or third time, I'll tell her in a semi-serious voice that I guess I thought she was more unique than she actually is. Wink. You may think this stuff is garbage and ineffective. I assure you, it isn't. This is just a specific example.

I think this is all very interesting stuff that can be discussed in depth. I'll start a new thread for the PUA discussion.

I'll multiquote people so we can more or less pick up where we left off. For now, let's leave this thread for it's original intentions.

New PUA thread here: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/79...-valid-404168/

Henry while I've got you here-- what are your Valentine's day plans? If you're not currently seeing someone, what would you do for your girlfriend for the occasion?

I don't know yet. I have a GF so obviously something but plans are contingent on a pending real estate deal so I don't know yet.

Well my friends with benefits arrangement with that chick ended last night. She said she just can't do it anymore. Girls always get attached. **** sucks.

For the record I'm 21 (22 this month) and my fiance is 22, I had totally expected to not get married until I was like 30...but meeting the right guy changed my mind.



On another note, ideas for what to do for/with the boy for Valentines day. We have a cocktail engagement party to go to for friends in the evening so a date is out, but I'd still like to do something.

Lots of BJ's or something along those lines. Not trying to be crude, but that's what almost every guy would prefer to a material gift.