Yes these hands are Coolers but is there a way to save money here?
I'm losing my winnings from the session with these stupid hands

Villain 16/13 AF2 on 465 hands

PokerStars - $0.50 NL ZOOM - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $200.55
SB: $51.66
Hero (BB): $132.08
UTG: $62.19
UTG+1: $28.00
UTG+2: $105.79
MP: $44.48
MP+1: $50.00
CO: $56.03

SB posts SB $0.25, Hero posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has K K

UTG raises to $1.41, fold, fold, fold, MP+1 calls $1.41, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $6.50, UTG raises to $13.55, fold, Hero calls $7.05

Flop: ($28.76, 2 players) 7 J 2
Hero checks, UTG bets $13.25, Hero calls $13.25

Turn: ($55.26, 2 players) T
Hero checks, UTG bets $35.25, Hero raises to $70.50, UTG calls $0.14 and is all-in

River: ($126.04, 2 players) 5

Hero shows K K (One Pair, Kings) (Pre 18%, Flop 13%, Turn 5%)
UTG shows A A (One Pair, Aces) (Pre 82%, Flop 87%, Turn 95%)
UTG wins $123.54

Villain 16/12 AF 3
3bet 3,7 on 594 hands

PokerStars - $0.50 NL ZOOM - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $114.06
SB: $25.00
BB: $163.08
Hero (UTG): $195.79
UTG+1: $58.47
UTG+2: $49.73
MP: $50.25
MP+1: $62.00
CO: $74.17

SB posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has K K

Hero raises to $1.75, fold, fold, fold, fold, CO raises to $6.00, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls $4.25

Flop: ($12.75, 2 players) T 5 2
Hero checks, CO bets $6.50, Hero calls $6.50

Turn: ($25.75, 2 players) 5
Hero checks, CO bets $13.50, Hero calls $13.50

River: ($52.75, 2 players) J
Hero checks, CO bets $25.00, Hero calls $25.00

CO shows A A (Two Pair, Aces and Fives) (Pre 82%, Flop 87%, Turn 95%)
Hero mucks K K (Two Pair, Kings and Fives) (Pre 18%, Flop 13%, Turn 5%)
CO wins $100.25

just dont play zoom at all

no money there imo

That's a well explained answer lol

what you want to read?

that you have to fold KK pre in zoom?

could say that, but if u have to do that, well I WOULD then not play this rigged bs-game

I once got myself in a position like this where i had KK V AA and lost. But then a few days later i had AA V KK and won.

True story that.

HHs and pics of fistpumps or it didn't happen.

Couldnt lay my hands on the HH`s but remembered i had a picture and footage that i dont mind people seeing. I do remember the feeling pretty well because i was laughing when i called the all in.


This is the end result when i got KK all in pre flop and lost to AA:-



That one hand had me thinking i was the unlickiest player of all time always getting it in against AA and losing but then when i did get AA in pre flop against KK and it held i did a little dance:-

Haha I made this thread on semi tilt, good thing is that I can enjoy it now
Thx to MartL!

Glad it cheered you up. But yeah it will flip around but we tend to focus too much on when we are on the wrong side of things.

I need help with this so bad, I literally just ran into the losing end of KK vs AA no less than 4 times in the last 90 minutes, even flopped a set one time and still lost. Tough to tell preflop because I 3-4 bet and people will call/ play back with QQ/AK. Folding KK pre is tough unless it's vs a nit who I have notes/states on shoving.

Really just depends how deep your stack is. Don't ship it with just KK when you're 250BB+ deep, it's a hell of a losing play at any stakes.

You know, I made fun earlier in the thread but I dont actually think those hands posted are coolers. 1st one is UTG Vs BB, ranges are so tight especially against that villin and with a caller in between in my experience.

2nd is UTG vs Co so I guess at a push that one is ok. I still feel the villains range will be pretty tight.

Below NL50 I think you can get away with these and you will still see some other hands but once you get above that it is going to be AA when either we open UTG or a villain does and we face a 4bet.

Why are you bluff raising the turn in hand 1? Any worse hand will certainly not call.

As for hand 2, your river call is bad, so you could have saved money on both of these hands really.

I except it being tough to not lose 100bb's with KK vs AA when the board runs out 9,7,3,3,6 but on J and T high boards I think you can get away from it.

Isn't it actually the opposite?!

i.e. at $50NL full ring or below, then pre-flop all-ins or aggressive post-flop 3bet pot play for 100bb's is usually restricted to AA and KK in the main, but at $100NL+ or $200NL+ the games get way more aggro, so you should never be folding KK, since the aggression is large and hands like AK and QQ are pretty much pre-flop all-ins that you feel very good about.

My DB says different. Below NL50 people will stack off with all sorts of things, I mean its not rare to get KK all in against QQ when we are in EP where as last time I looked at my hands at NL100 nearly everytime I got KK all in from EP I would be up against AA.

That is true what you say about $100NL, that is why I sort of said $200NL+ as well although really I think I mean $400NL+.

It is probably looser at $2NL and $5NL, starts to tighten up a bit at $25NL and $50NL, before getting sickly tight where you can literally only stack AA pre-flop for 100bb's at $100NL, and since by trying to stack, you are revealing that you have AA, you therefore can't really stack with it either so are forced to increase your EV by just calling. Then it starts to loosen out a bit after $100NL.

Well tbh your OP is a bit pointless since you aknowledge that the hands are coolers but your still asking for advice on how to save money.

How are these coolers when in hand 1 he puts 120bb's into the pot with just one pair and then in hand 2 he puts another 100bb's into the pot with two pair?

Regardless of whether i think they are coolers (which i do) or not, its still a bit redundant for OP to ask for advice on what could be done differently on hands that he himself considers to be coolers, when the definition of a cooler is a hand in which you did near everything correctly in relation to villains range but just ran into the worst case scenario.

The OP might have done everything right for what he considers to be a cooler, but if he revises his idea of what a real cooler is, then he will realise that they weren't coolers.

Proper coolers are the kind where you are fist-pump shipping with the near nuts and somehow get done by the nuts or second nuts when you were super surprised that your opponent had it.

Example 1: You have TT and lose to 44 on a Q,4,4,T,8 board.
Example 2: You have KK and lose to AA all-in pre-flop against a 40bb stack that 3bets pre-flop 10%.

Pretend coolers are the kind where people try to kid themselves that they played their hand perfectly and were unlucky to be beaten, when in actual reality their opponent was pretty much repping only hands that beat them, or perhaps the near nuts and one single hand that the hero beats. They just tell themselves it was a 'cooler' so that they can try to forget it in their mind and that they'd did everything they possibly could in the hand as well as possible.

Example 1: You somehow put 100bb's+ into the pot with an unimproved KK against a tight, reggy villain that is repping AA pre-flop, and AA or the nuts post-flop.
Example 2: You go broke for 100bb's+ in a multiway pot with bottom set on a J,T,9 rainbow board, 4way on the flop.

OP is clearly wondering himself whether he should actually be regarding these hands as coolers or should he do something about it and try to save some money in some spots.

start by realising that coolers are inevitable and stop worrying about them

kings has 20% chances of beating aces...
so be it,
just jam and be happy about it

So... no folding KK preflop?

There are rare times that folding KK is justified

i.e. FR zoom you open UTG and nit reg 12/10 w/ a 3% 3bet's you

it's never QQ-

But 3% is QQ+ and AKo/s so you still wouldn't fold though...